One more thing. The established roses in that area are fine. Just newly planted roses won't go, won't thrive.

I have heard that roses on Fort have very large root systems--perhaps the existing roses are competing with the new ones--much more than roses on multiflora or Dr. Huey.

Did this problem exist before you improved the soil--are the thriving established roses in the same soil as the struggling newcomers? Are they on the same rootstock?

I would get a soil test through ag extension--contact your county agent. One possibility is that the "tons of great stuff" created an excess of certain nutrients that are blocking the uptake of others. Or the pH could be way off.

You may have heard of "rose replant syndrome," but that's very unlikely--it is rare or unknown in the US.

Zack, that is a possibility.
Michael, The problem did exist before, that is why I did it. Roses grew great there for years. But I'm fickle and move them. About a year and a half ago new plantings would fail to thrive, even super easy roses, like the Chinas. Everything in that bed now is on fortuniana.

Nancy - just a thought - if this were my garden, I would just DO NOTHING for at least 12 months. No digging, no moving roses, nothing. My logic is that perhaps this area needs to "lay fallow" for a while, so that the micro organisms in the soil can come back to life, earthworms can move in, the "good stuff" can rot, etc.

If anything, I might plant a "cover crop" of little marigolds, in case the problem is bad nematodes.

Jackie

What were the symptoms of the roses that failed there, before you started changing the soil around?

How is the drainage there?

What exactly did you replace the soil with?

Jackie, that sounds like good advice. However it is my main garden area of a tiny garden with winter guests arriving and I want to show off the garden. I guess I could do some nice potted combos. That is fun.
Reg, at first they just didn't grow. Then they yellowed, the stems turned black and they withered. When I got them out (the ones that didn't die) and put them in pots, they started flourishing again. The drainage is good. Our native soil is sand. So even after a hurricane within hours the water has been absorbed. I replaced it with bagged potting soil and bagged cow manure compost.
Thanks for your help.
Nancy

Cow manure is a bit on the sweet side, so if you've used very much of it on soil that (perhaps) might have started out a bit on the alkaline side, soil PH might be entering into the problem. Get a soil test through your county extension agent. They might not be free anymore (I don't know about that) but it will save a lot of time in the long run to know where you're starting from. They can tell you about nematodes too when they do that testing.

Marigolds saved a rhododendron here from almost sure death, and they won't hurt anything to try, growing right along with the roses. But since your roses are growing on Fortuniana, that's probably not the main problem.

If it's Rose Replant Disease - it might be - you could try the method recommended by Peter Beales' nursery: plant each rose in new soil in a big cardboard box buried in your ground. You're trying to separate your rose from the disasterous effects of whatever current soil components are killing your roses, much as you did when removing your roses from the soil and finding success in a pot. Punch multiple drainage holes in the bottoms of the boxes. By the time the cardboard totally disintegrates, the chemicals in the soil responsible for killing your roses will have dissipated, drained away. Maybe hide the top edges on the boxes by using lots of mulch there.

For extra measure, you can probably help each rose by using mycorrhiza on the roots when you do the replanting. I read that a large public garden in France, where they were worried about Rose Replant Disease when redoing everything, got by with just using mycorrhiza on each rose to be replanted. You might even get by with just using mycorrhiza, but the box method plus mycorrhiza will almost surely work *if* Rose Replant Disease is a part of the problem there.

I've used the mycorrhiza brand linked in an article in Organic Gardening: BioVam. The many different types of plants I've used it on have done quite well when getting established, even in the heat of summer, so I'd assume that the product did help some in providing additional sources of water and other nutrients when the plants were in danger of transplant shock. I don't know that the product David Austin or others sell wouldn't work great too, or perhaps might be even better. Anyway, I did do some comparison shopping and was very happy with what I bought. I talked to the vendor for a long time, and he was quite knowledgeable and helpful.

If you decide to handle what might be Rose Replant Disease by letting the ground lay fallow, one year is not likely enough; they say at least two years is needed at the Peter Beales' nursery, and that three years' is more of a sure thing. Your amazing drainage there might shorten that timeline some, but probably not by that much.

An alternate solution that some people in California use (for gophers there) is to purchase huge (20-25 gallon?) plastic pots or barrels, drill drainage holes in them, and plant your roses in the pots permanently buried in the ground. That seems more like an absolute final last resort to me, though. You might just get started by trying mycorrhiza on a couple of roses and see whether you could get by that way. If not, then try the box method along with mycorrhiza.

Whatever you end up doing, a soil test would seem a wise way to begin. Good luck!

Best wishes,
Mary

Here is a link that might be useful: Mycorrhiza I've used (BioVam)

Mary, good suggestion, both you and Michael suggested a soil test. I have a tester that I bought and it shows a ph of 6.5, but I think you both are right, I should get a sample to the extension service. Also I am going to try what you suggested regarding the cardboard box and the Mycorrhiza.

This location will also not grow many new roses, with the exceptions being 3 Knock Out roses, the fl. Angel Face, and cl. Golden Showers. The hybrid teas I planted look sick and are about to die.
The bed holds several roses from previous years and is mulched with about 2 inches of mulch with the bottom layer looking like cypress mulch. Also the bed is on heavy clay with very poor drainage. I replaced the soil for each new hole with 2 parts high quality compost to 1 part top soil. The bed is on a very gentle slope. I planted both bare root and container roses and 2 of the container roses were the first to show no growth and browning canes, which are Queen Elizabeth and Olympiad.
Could water run off be making the roses sick? What would you do next? Thank you.

Olympiad your problem could be "bucket effect". This occurs when you dig a hole and backfill it with a very porous, absorbant material. Water seeps into the hole and just sits there.

Have you previously had success with a 2 to 1 ratio of compost to soil? That seems awfully high, I generally use only up to 50% amendments.