I don't really do a monthly check list, but I agree the Dends are kind of a "B". Last year I made a general cultural sheet (cool, cold, warm, withhold water until X, barely moist etc.) for all my species Dends, but when I went to find it right now it was gone. I guess I'll do it again. Rats! Life would be so much simpler if I just grew phals.

K

Watch it with the snarky Phal comments. :)

I'll share what I've pulled together so far for the Dens, maybe later today.

Thanks, WC8

Whitecat...check out the AOS's site.

Here is a link that might be useful: monthly checklist

that is a great site with the checklist. thanks.
sue

I knew it was you juyst by reading the title! Didn't even have to look :-))

I like that AOS site. Nice. I wish it covered more species. Last winter I did it the low tech way. I either wrote on the clay pot or attached a sticky note with a sharpie "Do not water until March"

Clara

Lellie - Well, AOS isn't as compulsive about their list-making as I am, that's all. :) It's a nice heads up, though, that something needs attention during a 2-month period.

Clara - That's so funny that you knew who was posting! I'm resenting the 90 horrichids already. (Did I just coin a word?) The thought of putting sticky notes on every pot makes me want to throw them in the pond behind the house. The ducks can have'em. Although, maybe putting all the Den moniliformes, say, in a section and putting a note there would work.

I've got so many new types that this first winter w/ them is challenging my organizational skills. What are you gonna do this year? Anything different?

WC8

I've been thinking about this too with a gnawing feeling in my stomach. I am "in process", a very dark place to be. You know... My brain is "smoking stage". I hope to get a clue from your post and take a direction. I'll let you know. I already feel "sealed in for winter" with them all staring at me. Wait until you are fully set up for the "big seal in" to decide though. You'll go nuts moving plants every time you have an idea. When you get the new lights, the whole ball game takes a turn too.

You coined a fantastic phrase :-))) Love it!

Clara

Clara, Yes, I get the smoking brain stage thing. :) I've got 2 orchid areas - the enclosed orchid room w/ solid "intermediate" conditions, and the cooler, open living room.

Dens & Ctsm that need dormancy or semi-dormancy have to be there because of the cooler temps.

The missing info is how much light those Dens need during the winter. Last winter, Ctsm did fine w/ the 23W bulbs in the octopus lamp, but this is the first year for the Dens, and the lamp won't cover them, too.

Do the Dens need their own octopus lamp? A 42W CFL set-up? An 85W? And will DH sit still for 2 octopus lamps or brooder clamp lights in the living room, which we never use but which can be seen from the entry way, dining room, and kitchen?

We'll get all this figured out - just in time to go nuts over plants w/ different requirements for winter '08.

Whitecat8

I suspected 'Smoking Brain' was an affliction we shared ;-) Wait until you get the cfl's. Fire exinguisher handy for the brain.

Let me think on organisation for a bit. I've kind of been remembering or writing it down in a log book. Do you have a calendar program? My fav was "Now up to Date" (mac). I think mine is for os 9. (have a dual boot for older expensive programs). With "Now" you can print out a wall calendar, a big one, 9 sheets of paper. I used to use that for logistically complicated stuff. Worked well. Tape the sheets together and put it on the wall or fold it in a binder. Maybe use that with a colour code system? I re- organise my Baker's sheets by rest and light in winter. For ease, the ones that I rarely will need to water go in the window. They are usually the cooler growing ones. My windows are tough to reach.

Any plant will need the same amount of light as they were receiving previously. My lycaste bulbs still get catt light even when they have no leaves. I grow only a handful of dens in z-5. The fc's don't change while dormant, only the run time frequency, heat, & water will change. Think about situ. They can't move around. That usually helps get my smoking brain under controle.

Question about Dens I have 1 that decided to put out new growth now. It has been warm. This plant is scheduled for a long, hard rest if it ever cools down here. What do I do about rest with "Denlettes" emerging? They are 1" or less.

The weather is really screwing things up here. Can't reduce yet at all. Tried w/ lycastses. They begin to shrivel. I am watering every other day! Noticed you changed your zone. I agree with that. We may share a zone but don't share the same weather.

Clara
High today 80, very dry and sunny

Several years ago I saw the same need as you. As a result I started my own cultural calendar. As I gleaned information about each of the orchid types I grow I jotted it down on a monthly basis. For example, in April, May, June, July, I have "Fertilize and water DEN NOBILES heavily." In August I have "Stop all fertilizer for DEN NOBILES." In September I have "Ease off water slowly for DEN NOBILES." In November I have "Stop all water for DEN NOBILES."

I have notes like this in each month of the year for each type of orchid that I grow. The first paragraph is always a general paragraph about fertilizing, such as in Sept. through March when the days are short I have "Cut fertilizer back to 1/2 teaspoon to a gallon," "1X use liquid seaweed," 1X flush plain water," etc. Of course, in April through August when the days are long and sunny I have "increase fertilizer to 1 teaspoon to a gallon."

I have adjusted the calendar to meet my own needs in my own climate under my own conditions from my own observations. It is been an immense help to me and is one of the best things I've ever done to aid me in raising healthy, blooming plants.

Orchid126, This is exactly what I'm working on. Would you be willing to share yours with the Forum? If so, I'm not quite sure of the mechanics of posting it, but someone will know. We're in different zones, but it'd be a starting point, rather than my start from scratch.

I'll sure understand if you want to keep all your hard work to yourself. Sometimes, it's like sharing treasured family recipes.

Clara, I've been working on the Dens for hours now, trying to figure out which sub-groups mine are in. Going nuts. Will ask the Forum in a new thread. My humor is missing right now.

I'd be ecstatic w/ a simple Word doc at this point, but thanks for listing options.

My zone on the Forum has always been 4, but Kevin says his is 3, I think. We must be on the line here, so maybe it depends on the source you use.

WC8

Nope, my zone is 5 because I'm in the city.

K

'Cause your temps are a bit warmer? WC8

The problem with zones is that they are too wide. You have to take the micro-climate of your particular growing situation.... the trees, north or south side of a hill, frost hollow or not. Even stuff like the alignment of a glasshouse. North/South versus East/West.

No amount of notes/instructions can make up for lack of experience and observation.

I certainly do not have a time table. Hopefully as people gain experience they will grow less genera. Even if you grow only Phals you can have a wide range of colours, sizes and variety from the hybrids and species.

As for growing Dens. Forget about some of them in the frozen north and do not be lead astray by nice photos. A stick it somewhere down the backyard orchid like Den. speciosum is not even worth thinking about. Do for some of the hard canes that grow too big for under lights culture.

I have just spent the last four days at an orchid show and that was the last show of the year. After i balance the money and pay the members for plant sales i can spend more time with my orchids.

Now the show season extended from May to October and i saw almost Nil of the following at various shows.

Miltoniopsis
Tropical warm Growing Hard Cane Dendrobiums
Masdevallia (I did see a few)
Vandas
Angraecum (sorry Breezy)

Someone surely knows what gets exhibited at shows in say New York or Chicago and what is almost never seen. The commonly grown ones are the ones that people should try to grow. Complicated culture is difficult and orchid growing should be fun.

Don't worry, I've been lead astray. I've tried to grow Miltoniopsis several times and it was a complete waste of time.

Orchid people can learn a lot by listening to and reading the writings of aquarium people. 90% of the species kept in aquariua since the 1950's have been tropical specimens from South America and Africa. When the saltwater aquarium hobby developed, a similar pattern of tropical families centered on equatorial waters of the Pacific Ocean and Middle Eastern Sea's. Thing is you have just this big (or not) tank of water and a whole raft of different kinds of fish at the store... are you really just going to fill an 85 gallon fresh water tank with a single school of Neon Tetra's? I thought not. So you have your 85er maxxed out with 13 different kinds of 'tropical fish'. You feed them the same food, subject them to the same temperature, the same degree of water turbulence, the same light intensity, the same substrate (tank bottom), decorations! Is this a recipe for disater? You betcha. But all is not woe and sadness for after the feeding frenzy comes an equilibrium. All of your choices will not be compatible with one another some will resolve their differences by eating them. End of conflict. Others will die prematurely. Some will alter certain behaviors in the face of certain missing features in the artificial environment you have created vs. what they had in Bora Bora.

If you read enough orchid literature you know about Warm, Intermediate and Cool growing orchids. It would be difficult, if not impossible to create three ideal such zones in a houeshold environment. One would be doing very well to manage two divisions: Warm-Intermediate and Cool-Intermediate. Within each the only sane distinction worth enforcing would be those in water retentive media and/or plastic potting requiring ~1x/wk and those in more open media and/or clay potting requiring ~2x/wk. That means four possible sets of cultural instructions. It would be easy enough to keep the rules clear for as many as 100 plants but thats me. For those who need help I suggest color coded stickers for the pots and a single chart with all the rules and the corresponding four colors. I further recommend two set watering days each week and a calendar can easily be marked up as many months in advance as you care to with large colored dots corresponding to the labeled pots that get watered on that day. Even though you are watering with a schedule it does not mean you turn off your senses. As you approach each pot on its watering day you are lifting it, looking at it closely, possibly poking gently into the potting before adding any water. Perhaps a light went out and the expected degree of dryness did not occur. You don't have to water in such an event. Likewise you should go through 'all' your collection on the watering days even the ones that are to be skipped by the schedule. You will possibly spot a disease or pest outbreak before it becomes critical. In a windowsill, hopefully with artificial light supplementation quaint rules of segregation that favor high light species being closer to the glass/lights than those needing less light do not prevail. It will hardly be measurable the difference in light level in the optimally lit parts of the growing area. Catts will interchange with Oncids and with Dendrobiums according to the best presentation as to height, width or the degree of favor in which it is held. Less optimally lit areas outside of the zone of good coverage of the lights are IMO not recommended for orchids and can be an excellent spot for other kinds of houseplants. The exceptions of course are the phals and paphs, they can be tried there in the shade of the primma donna's. They just might not like the spot either but they might and you will have learned something about your light distribution.

H

Here's what I've got so far for October & Nov. but don't know yet when the Dens need what - maybe no changes in Oct. 'cause it's not winter yet.

Once I get the Dens in the right groups, I'll consolidate them.

October in Zone 4:

1. Cyms: If summering outside, leave them out till mid-October. They can take temps close to freezing.

a. If frost is predicted, cover them or put them in the garage for the night.

b. They prefer a max night temp of 60-62 degrees.

2. Den atroviolaceum (Latourae): Below 55°-60° nights, below 80° days; dry rest during winter; medium to high light.

3. Den draconis & Den Green Lantern (Formosae): Intermediate to cool year 'round: 50°-60° nights, max. 85° days. Give a slight short rest (dry) when growth is completed. Keep barely moist until growth starts again.

4. Den loddigesii (Dendrobium): Winter nights 55°. Deciduous species need virtually no water in winter. Give high light and no fertilizer.

5. Den moniliforme (Dendrobium): Barely damp before watering. Bring in about mid-October, as long as weather is in the 50s and 60s during the day, or higher, and no lower than the low 40s at night.

6. Den unicum: A lessening of water and fertilizer is beneficial through the onset of winter but in the last 2 months, water should be reduced even more and fertilizer eliminated until new growths arise in the spring.

7. Masdies: Bring in about mid-October, as long as weather is in the 50s and 60s during the day, or higher, and no lower than the low 40s at night.

8. Potinara: Bring in about mid-October, as long as weather is in the 50s and 60s during the day, or higher, and no lower than the low 40s at night.

November:

1. Cyms: Put them in as cool a spot as possible.

a. Water every 3-5 days.

b. Fertilize every 3rd time. This will harden them off, so they'll flower.

c. Flush once a month.

2. Ctsm & Cyc: By Thanksgiving, reduce watering to about __ the frequency. (This is a quote from Fred Clarke on another forum, and the frequency is missing.)

3. Den moniliformes (Dendrobium): "Crispy dry" sphag before watering.

In process...

Whitecat8

Howard. Thank you and exactly right. I've lost a lot of fish lately when they died of old age.

Why do people have to have one of this and one of that. Guess, I'm strange. What is wrong with growing a few types of Orchid well.

Whitecat, i've got a thousand orchids. If i had to grow all those types with all those instructions i'd have a nervous breakdown.

Howard,

Yep, I get it about the different environments. The enclosed orchid room is "intermediate" in winter. The open living room is a little cooler (Ctsm and Cycs liked it last winter). Plants are up against the E/SE double sliding glass doors - no obstruction - and will have two 42W CFLs or one 85W, in addition to the 23W CFLs in the octopus lamp that was there last winter. The shelf is 28"x12" and there are some additional plant stands for the Ctsm.

In winter, we keep the thermostat at 58, which helps.

My main concerns, this first winter w/ new Dens & some others, are when/if watering needs to be reduced or stopped altogether, how to water the ones that don't go into full dormancy, and when and how to begin watering and fertilizing again.

Also, the mini-Cym didn't bloom last year, probably because I didn't follow the watering/fertilizing schedule.

It's not so much about changing the environment - it's about changing me! LOL

Arthur - This IS fun! The research, constructing a schedule, seeing if I can grow a certain plant, getting frustrated when I can't find info - all of it.

Thanks.

Whitecat8

Arthur Americans have too many choices where shopping is concerned. Far too much media access. Now you know why we go bonks! :-)

WC I didn't understand what you were asking until I saw your list. I don't give anyone anything in winter. Too much hassel and they don;t really need it. An occasional Drac but maybe when I remember. I have no species masde's that fit a 60º day temp description. high 70's-80, mid/upper 50's night for infracta that grows at 6550ft. Where are you getting this info from woman?;-) They would have to be such high altitude I can't imagine that they exist and any of us have them.

Make it easy to remember. Most will flourish at 76º and 60 night. Like g/h's do it or as close as you can get it. Cut everything out in winter and think about water schedule and light arrangement. They usually fit together. After you sort out their light, then all you have to think about is how much to water.

Clara

Clara, The temp notes are so I'll know whether the plant goes in the warmer or cooler room for the winter. I'm at a very basic level here. :)

And yes, it's the watering thing that I need to nail down, as I mentioned above.

What did you mean when you said you didn't give anyone anything in winter? Fertilizer?

My one Masdie - Celtic Frost - is from Komodo Orchids & supposedly is warmth-tolerant. We'll see.

Oh - my response to your private e-mail came back, saying there was a permanent failure. That's soooo awful that your e-mail is messed up.

WC8

Wow WC I am getting mail. What is the problem? So sorry. I ahve to get another email for you. No I don't fertilise anyone in the winter. I cut it all. The Masde's and dracs if I remember which is almost never. Make it easy on yourself! You'll get there after the noggin cools off. I am arranging for the last time today, get the exinguisher out!

Clara

Whitecat, way back in post one you were worried about bone meal for your Cymbidium. Not necessary if your tap water has sufficient Calcium or if you use a complete fertilizer with trace elements.

Please go back and read all the posts and especially the long one written by Howard. I have six "different" sets of growing conditions and there is no way i could grow all those on your list.

What is going to happen if you get sick or go away on hols to your collection?

I can remember the last two times i went on holidays and left my collection in the care of "carers". The kiss thing applies.

Find a Genera or Two that you love and can grow well and concentrate on those.

This is what I have for October and November:

OCTOBER
MID FALL

Depending on temps, gradually start bringing plants inside. Be careful to orient any bloom spikes as flower buds form. Drop fertilizer back to 1/2t. 1X spray seaweed. 1X epsom salts. 1X rocket fuel. 1X hydrogen peroxide. 1X plain water. Slow down fertilizer for cattleyas to 1/4g. Continue blossom booster and high potash for last month. No fertilizer for NOBILE. Leave out til Nov. 1. (Can stay out longer but want to avoid fall rains as it needs to start drying out). Keep PHALS, DENS, MILTONIA, LAELIA outdoors til temps drop below 50-55 degrees. Reduce watering. If plants warm, water once every 7-10 days. If cool, keep relatively dry. Use inorganic fertilizer (organic needs warm conditions). Use insecticide and soil drench if not done in September. Increase light to full light. As conditions cool, watering can be reduced. In cool evenings, bring into a protected area. By now all repotting should be completed for winter. Insert flower stakes where needed near center of pot 25mm from edge. Slow down watering of B. NODOSA, ENCYCLIA, YAMAMOTO TYPE DENS, LAELIA. Dry ONCIDIUMS for three weeks after blooming..

NOVEMBER
LATE FALL

Start winter culture Nov. 21 to Jan. 31 (one month before the shortest day 12/21 to one month after). Increase light intensity to compensate for shorter days. Reduce fertilizer and water in general. 1x spray with seaweed. 1x epsom salts. 1x rocket fuel. 1x hydrogen peroxide. 1x plain water. Water COCHLEANTHES every 3rd day. Slow down water and fertilizer for regular CATTLEYAS to 1/4 t. to a gal. 1X a month, the multiple bloomers more often. CATTLEYAS need to be dryer in winter. BLC Gold of Old dry Dec/Jan. Baby sips for B. NODOSA. Restrict water for LAELIAS Nov. to April. LAELIA ANCEPS if heavy leathery leaves can stand cool winters and quite dry contitions. (Anceps bloom Nov. to Jan.). Rest after bloom until new growth in spring. Stop all water and fertilizer completely for regular NOBILE. Bring in Nov. 1 to avoid fall rains. Start drying out YAMAMOTO TYPE for one month rest. ONCIDIUMS bright, not dry out while in bloom, rest after. PAPHS, fertilize 1/4t gal 1X mo, water 2x per week. ENCYCLIAS from hurrican zone have heavy summer rains ending in late November and early December. For the next six months little rain, but high humidity. Sunlight remains intense. Failure to limit water leads to the loss of many orchids each winter.

Orchid 126 - Bless you! This is priceless! WC8

Hi, Arthur -

Different strokes for different folks, huh?

When you were starting out with orchids, did you have a few years of trial and error? Or, before you bought your first orchid, did you have a plan to acquire only what you're growing today? Or, another approach?

Thanks for your concern, Whitecat8

Way back up i listed some that i failed to grow and there are others such as Zygopetalum which are supposed to be easy.

As for culture notes, they are at best just general instructions.

Apart from the ones i killed there are those that i tried and didn't love, such as Laelia anceps.

It is a natural progression to try lots of orchids when first starting out.

Why are i saying that you are better off long term being a specialist...because having many plants of the one kind is the domain of many good orchid growers. Those are the guys that win Champion orchid at a show or the guys who have orchid breeding programs.

Still waiting to find out what are the orchids most commonly seen at shows in the frozen north. They might be the orchids that new growers find to be the easiest under lights.

Yes, it is a natural progression to try lots of different orchids when first starting out, but for some of us that may continue long past the total newbie, novice or buckwheater stage (see discussion on Dark Side). And again, that's what makes this whole thing exciting for some of us - to see what the possibilities are.

Granted there are going to be a good number of casualties along the way, but hopefully we learn from them and either make some changes in how we grow if we really want to grow that plant or just stop trying to grow that plant. There have been some pretty impressive threads out here as to what lengths various people have gone to in order to grow certain plants. Some have failed miserably, others have impressed the heck out of me with their success.

We all get our satisfaction in different ways. For some that may be growing those plants that thrive with a minimum of effort or manipulation of the environment. For other it's all about the manipulation and research and trying to do the impossible.

If I were to grow only those plants that were well suited to my conditions, I would be growing you-know-what. I don't what to grow you-know-what. Maybe at some point I'll come back to growing you-know-what. I certainly hope not, but it could happen I suppose. I would hope I continue on the path I'm currently on - trying, trying, trying all those little obscure gems from obscure parts of the world. That's what makes this fun for me and others too I would think.

Nice message, Kevin. It's encouraging to know older hands are pushing cultural envelopes, too.

Arthur, you have more ambitions for me than I do. LOL Right now, I'm having fun learning the very basics, which include banging my head against the wall sometimes. Specialist? Showing? Breeding? Not on the radar.

Every hobbyist is at a different point on the continuum of orchid growers. Sounds as if you once were somewhere close to where I am now. Maybe I'll gravitate toward your current spot, maybe not. I may always be trying to make something happy here that "shouldn't" be, and I may always have one or two of a whole lotta different plants. All part of the adventure.

Whitecat8

I guess I agree with Arthur. You start out trying everything and find what works. I have major limitations regarding environment and have tried so many different plants over the years and know what I can grow easily. I do grow some which take more effort, but I limit those. I don't have time or energy to struggle with plants which are not happy with me and my conditions.

The kind of list Orchid 126 uses would not work for me. I use notes on each individual plant. I have nobile dens where some grow dryer than others. Hybrid plants all require different treatment. I could never generalize. I have a Blc which likes dry, another likes water. Some continue growing all winter, some flower, other do not. I use the individual notes to remember which responded to what treatment the year before and which ones did not. I've killed plants, in the past trying to generalize conditions.

I grow indoors at windows and under lights. I'm not great keeping up notes, but I do note flowering times, potting mixes which seem to improve growth. I note what seemed to produce the best growth on individual plants - heat, light, dry/wet, outdoors/indoors. I have 8 Phals. Four fit the general picture of growth. Two like higher light and warmth. One spikes in winter with warmth.

Growing species Catts and hybrids require notes on each one. They may be Blc's but behave very differently. I have one which loves dry. Is potted almost mounted and is happy. The others are happy in bark, sphag, etc. Some bloom twice a year, others once.

I keep a index card file. Every plant has a number and a card. Some cards have a photo, but lots of notes when the plant first came to me. I play with conditions and make note about the results. There is always a plant which is difficult and needs to be grown differently. I like my cards because it is quick and easy to look up a plant. I keep them in a metal box which travels around the yard and house with me.

I could never follow a month-to-month list. Every year is different, every plant is different.

Jane

Orchid 126 -

Thank you for your notes re monthly care - being a newbie, I am most anxious to treat my orchids right.

You mentioned "rocket fuel" - is this a secret formula you would care to share?

Thanks.

Several years ago a grower named Weyman Bussey said that he used "Rocket Fuel" which consists of 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon of MSU (or whatever fertilizer you use), 4 drops of Superthrive, 1cc (1/4t) Everclear 180 proof Grain Alcohol (use methyl/methanol). Vodka okay, but not scotch or bourbon. He said he uses it every other watering.

He explained that the idea behind the grain alcohol was that it was sugar in its purest form and immediately utilized by the plant.

Several people commented that he raised excellent plants, so I thought I would try it, and bought the Everclear Grain Alcohol. I don't use the Superthrive, but I do use the MSU. I simply add 1/4 teaspoon of the Everclear to a gallon of my MSU fertilizer once a month or every other month. It certainly hasn't done any harm that I can see to my plants, and may even contribute to their good health. I swear the plants are smiling after their monthly cocktail.

Several years ago a grower named Weyman Bussey said that he used "Rocket Fuel" which consists of 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon of MSU (or whatever fertilizer you use), 4 drops of Superthrive, 1cc (1/4t) Everclear 180 proof Grain Alcohol (use methyl/methanol). Vodka okay, but not scotch or bourbon. He said he uses it every other watering.

He explained that the idea behind the grain alcohol was that it was sugar in its purest form and immediately utilized by the plant.

Several people commented that he raised excellent plants, so I thought I would try it, and bought the Everclear Grain Alcohol. I don't use the Superthrive, but I do use the MSU. I simply add 1/4 teaspoon of the Everclear to a gallon of my MSU fertilizer once a month or every other month. It certainly hasn't done any harm that I can see to my plants, and may even contribute to their good health. I swear the plants are smiling after their monthly cocktail.

Jane, the monthly calendar is a general culture list for that time of year for the plants that I grow. By no means is it the be all and end all of my orchid culture.

I also maintain a card for each plant and among many other things I list on it the type of pot the plant is in, the type of media, any special treatment it got when repotting, when it gets a new lead, when it gets buds, how many buds, when the plant blooms, and the duration of the blooms, etc.

Yes, I also have nobile dens that like to be drier than others, and I have nobile dens that only need a short duration of dryness, and like to be kept more moist than others. I have catts that need more sun than others, and place them in my window accordingly. Some rest for the winter and others keep on growing and blooming. I have phals that bloom in early winter and late winter. All this is recorded on each plant's card.

I also maintain a list each time I water, and what fertilizer I used and how much, and whether or not I used anything extra, such as liquid seaweed or Protekt, etc. I can cross reference the plant cards with my weekly watering log and see if I did anything that might have prompted more growth, new leads, or buds.

What the calendar did for me as a beginner was give me a jumping off place, a place to start, a place from which I can observe the results and determine if what I was doing was better or worse, a place from which I could improve on the care of my plants, make slight changes in their culture. It solidified my previous hit or miss approach to orchid care. I would highly recommend it for any new orchid grower.