So sorry Michigoose! It looks like you have everything covered. Do you think you should bypass the bio filter?

Lisa

Well...since it is the major water mover, and I put some activated charcoal "rolls" in front of the waterfall, I'm thinking that this might help flush it out. I have a sump pump pumping periodically from one of the shallow ends, and the bottom drain is pulling.

I'm not entirely certain exactly what was in the solution and I don't know if the toxicity causing material is heavier or lighter than the regular water. At this point, given the amount of kill, I would assume that it is throughout the water. The offending "cleaned" filter pads in the prefilter have been removed.

I dumped the anti-chlor in a little heavier because of the fact that it does have some binding capabilities with some chemicals in addition to the chlorine.

I don't know if it will affect the waterlilies...I'm going to buy some anacharis today and hopefully that will help filter out some of the bad stuff (anacharis doesn't over winter well in my pond... and the hornwort usually gets heavily clogged with algae so I usually dump it and start out new in the spring.

I need to get some water hyacinth and some water lettuce, but I'm not sure if whatever this is is toxic to them too...I suppose not the water hyacinth because it is such a pest in places...or rather, it is less likely that water hyacinth would be effected than the water lettuce.

I want to know why the favorites (Spot, Blue and Flowy) are always the first to die. BOOOO HOOOO.

Oh gee Michigoose, I'm sooooooo sorry!!

so sorry, michigoose. wish i could help. your poor HH must be feeling as bad as you do.

i don't know why we always lose our favorites first - some kind of murphey's law, i guess. good luck saving the rest. min

Sorry to read about your disaster Michigoose.
I hope you manage to save a few of your fish.
I don't think putting plants into your pond will help the detergent situation, it may kill the plants also?
I would move the fish to another container with fresh de-chlorinated water, and clean out the pond, filter and piping, before re-filling.

Take notice of the different water temperatures between the pond water and the container water. A difference in water temperature could shock to your fish and be more harmful than anything else.
"Horton"

Yes, I was thinking that Horton...but I also reasoned that with some of it, they were already on their way out and if that didn't work, that was ok. I'm thinking that I've probably turned over the complete amount of water...but I'm not sure. I suppose I should just bite the bullet and empty it and refill....The remaining ones seem to be a little more lively....I can't believe that cleaning one filter pad caused this much damage in this pond...he must have saturated it.

I'm still sick to my stomach, and he's really feeling bad even though I haven't said anything...or yelled.

Michigoose, I'm sure your husband had nothing but good intentions and figured that the car cleaner would do a thorough job of removing the build up in the filter pads.

That being said does not make your loss any easier to accept for the present time.

But it wasn't a malicious act and you can see how bad he feels about it all.
With time it will all pass into memory as a lesson learned.
The thing is now, to work together to get the pond up and running again.
Good thoughts to you both.
"Horton"

You might be able to find out what was in the solution by finding the product's MSDS sheet. Many are online these days at the manufacturer's website. Dishwashing soap won't harm plants but car detergent probably has extra grease and tar dissolvers.

Wow that is horrifying!

BTW - If you'd wanted a bigger pond bnow is the time to do it. You have way fewer fish and a cleaned out area... and a husband who would liek to redeem himself.

My guess with the carwash was it did two things. Chemical txocity and the surfactants would have covered the gills making it difficult to get Oxygen from the water. But you did exactly the best thing you could have to try and aave them.

I've got to say... when we have a die-off it is so sad as you're right. It's always the "special" ones that seem to go. Last year we lost all our Butterfly Koi from the winter thaw. After that, we put a permanant bubbler pump in to add extra Oxygen during the long frozen months.

I am sorry for the losses.
I would use a soft brush to loosen as much algae from the sides, pots and bottom as possible after the remaining fish were moved. The algae probably grabbed onto a good bit of the detergent and will start turning brown as it dies.
I agree with locating the MSDS. Sometimes they put in a lot of material that is unhelpful but one thing they are required to have is a phone number. Use it and give a budding chemist a headache until he actually helps you with information you can understand and use. They get caught up in their charts from time to time. Sandy

MSDS has no aquatic toxicity mentioned and no toxicity listed at all, but it "may be an eye irritant."

No other information. I was referred to a manager, and got to be put on a recorder.

As of today, Monday, I'm down to 5 living fish. Some of them are swimming...some are sitting listlessly at the bottom.

36 deaths.

Thanks for the thought about expanding...but at present, that's the last thing I want to do...even if I had to space. I have plenty of room beyond my backyard fence (I'm on almost an acre) but this one is near the house just off our patio and the "main drag" to the gardens.

As a last ditch effort, I used Koi-zyme on them...

What is that stuff anyway and is it worth the $26 bucks a bottle?

You'll love this one..."Oh, we don't have any information on this. All our products are biodegradable (!), and the pH is balanced so it won't harm the finish on your car so it must be something else as this is so mild it wouldn't do anything like that. We don't test to see what happens in the environment."

Do you have a link to the MSDS? Maybe I can glean some more info if I know what's in the cleaner.

Sounds like there won't be a prolonged toxic issue with the pond itself once the concentration of cleaner drops down from a change of water. Being an eye irritant usually means it will irritate all sensitive tissues including gills. I'd put some sort of anti-fungal, anti-bacterial stuff (others will know best brands) in the water of the survivors to prevent any infection.

Thanks riverspots. I'm not sure how many, if any, will survive. Only three of the four are swimming around even remotely happily at present, and it has been 28 hours since the complete water change. I will take your advice and put in some meds.....maybe epsom salts wouldn't be out of line either, a low concentration.

Here's the link to the MSDS.

Here is a link that might be useful: Deep Crystal Carwash MSDS

Father's day is coming up. You can surprise him by cleaning all his power tools in the dishwasher.

Alrighty. I did a little reading on the two ingredients. The laurel ether sulfate is a surfactant (foaming soap). Surfactants disrupt the ability of animal membranes to exchange gases-i.e. breathe. The fish apparently were exposed to a high enough dose to essentially suffocate them. The survivors could have some temporary membrane damage to the gills resulting in impaired "breathing". Make sure their water is highly aerated. I've heard that hydrogen peroxide changes to oxygen (and water) when added to water. Possibly that would add additional oxygen to the fishes' water but I don't personally know enough about it to advise about using it. Perhaps someone else will.

The other listed ingredient-cocamidopropyl betaine-may cause some irritation with prolonged exposure. This ingredient may also have nitrosamines as a possible contaminant which does have a list of nasty long-term effects but probably not present in great enough concentration to worry about. (Nitrosamines is also the concern about eating too much hotdogs, sausage, etc.)

To clean up the pond-I would use water to spray down the sides and bottom of the pond which would also loosen any dead algae and get rid of that water, but I don't believe scrubbing would add much additional benefit. Unless you've got a lot of dead algae, of course.

Good luck-let us know how it all goes.
Kathy