My cuttings from Nick's rose rooted well. I have three of them left, and I shared the others. We will be evaluating my rose (and Nick's) this spring to try to determine if it is the elusive Bess Lovett. This discussion is also on the Antique forum, with lots more info. It's really interesting to see everyone chime in with ideas and possible sources ... none in this country so far, and maybe only one in Europe. Share those old rare roses with your friends, people. It's the only way to keep them from disappearing. Connie

Here are the top performers in my relatively new rose garden, so far: Pink Cracker M. Tillier Mutabilis John Paul II (on Fortuniana) Mr. Lincoln (on Fortuniana) Europeana (on Fortuniana) Le Pactole Duchess Du Brabant Caldwell's Pink Alister Stella Grey Teasing Georgia (on Fortuniana) I'm sure that this list will change next year, as my Vintage Gardens bands mature. Also, I really don't expect the ones grafted onto Fortuniana to live very long and I will not be purchasing any more grafted roses. Reason: Graft separation/failure, too many of them have died.

2004 (LCl) & (HWich) ROSE LIST LG. FLOWERED CL. & HYBRID WICHURANA BY: Ronald Schwerdt 5-15-04 ACHIVEMENT-------------------------HWich-----DP---1925 ADELAIDE MOULLE----------------HWich-----PB---1902 ALBATROSS---------------------------HWich------W---1988 ALBERIC BARBIER------------------HWich------W---1900 ALBERT POYET------------------------LCl--------PB---1979 ALBERTINE------------------------------LCl-------OP---1921 ALESSA-----------------------------------LCI-------MR---1988 ALEXANDRE TREMOUILLET----HWich------DP---1988 ALFRED DIETRICH-------------------LCL-------RB---1980 ALFRESCO------------------------------LCl--------PB---2000 ALICE SPRINGS------------------------LCL-------OB-------- ALICJA ----------------------------------LCL--------LP-------- ALIDA LOVETT------------------------LCL-------LP---1905 ALL A BLAZE--------------------------LCl--------MR---1999 ALLENS GOLDEN CLIMBER------LCL-------OB---1933 ALPIN-------------------------------------LCL-------OR---1960 ALTISSIMO------------------------------LCl-------MR---1966 AMAGLIA--------------------------------LCl--------W---1980 AMAZONE-------------------------------LCL------MR---1961 AMERICA--------------------------------LCl--------OP---1976 AMERICAN BEAUTY, CLIMBING--LCl-------DP---1909 AMERICAN PILLAR-------------------HWich----PB---1902 AMERICAN ROSE-----------------------LCl-------PB---2001 AMETHYSTE----------------------------HWich-----M---1911 AMY JOHNSON--------------------------LCL-----MP---1931 ANDENKEN AN BRESLAU-------- HWich----MR---1913 ANDREE VANDERSCHRICK-------HWich-----W---1935 ANNA RUBSAMEN-------------------HWich----MP---1904 ANNE DAKIN----------------------------LCl-------PB---1974 ANNE JACKSON------------------------LCl-------DP---1973 ANNETTE ELIZABETH---------------LCl--------PB---1992 ANTIKE 89-------------------------------LCl--------RB---1988 APELES MESTRES---------------------LCl-------DY---1931 APRICOT GLOW------------------------LCL-----AB----1936 ARCADIA--------------------------------HWich----DR---1913 ARCATA LIGHT YELLOW WICHURANA--HWich--LY ARDON-----------------------------------HWich----MP---1925 ARIELLE DOMBASIE------------------LCl-------OB---1991 ARISTIDE BRIAND--------------------HWich----M----1928 ARNDT------------------------------------LCl--------LP---1913 ARROWTOWN--------------------------LCl--------DY---1982 ASCHERMITTWOCH------------------LCl---------W---1955 ASTRA DESMOND---------------------LCl--------YB-------- ASTRAL-----------------------------------LCl--------DR-------- ATALANT---------------------------------LCl--------------1927 AUGUSTE DELOBEL------------------LCl-------MR---1924 AUGUSTE GERVAIS-------------------LCl--------AB---1918 AUGUSTE ROUSSEL------------------LCl---------PB---1913 AUNT RUTH-----------------------------LCl---------PB---1995 AURELIAN GOLD----------------------LCl--------MY-------- AURORA----------------------------------LCl-------OB---1956 AURORE SAND-------------------------LCl--------PB---1964 MALVERN HILLS----------------------LCl--------LY---2001 AUTUMN SUNLIGHT-----------------LCl--------OR---1965 AVEBURY-------------------------------LCl---------LP---1995 AVENIR---------------------------------HWich-------LP---1910 AVIATEUR BLERIOT----------------HWich------YB---1910 AWAKENING---------------------------LCl----------LP---1992 AXELINE---------------------------------LCl---------MP-------- BABETTE RAMBLER----------------HWich-----MR---1906 BABY SUNBEAM----------------------LCl---------AB---1934 BALCON----------------------------------LCl--------OR---1960 BALMAIN CLIMBER------------------LCl---------LP-------- BALTIMORE BEAUTY----------------LCl--------LY---1927 BANTRY BAY---------------------------LCl--------MP---1967 BARRICADE-----------------------------LCl--------MR---1971 BEAUREGARD--------------------------LCl---------------1972 BEAUTE ORLEANAISE-------------HWich-------W---1919 BEAUTIFUL SUNRISE----------------LCl---------PB---2001 BEAUTY OF HURST-------------------LCl---------W---1926 BELLE BLANCA------------------------LCl---------W--------- BELLE DÂORLEANS-------------------LCl--------OR---1958 BELLE PORTUGAISE-----------------LCl---------LP---1903 BEN STAD-------------------------------LCl---------PB---1925 BENVENUTO---------------------------LCl--------MR---1967 BERRIES "N" CREAM----------------LCl---------PB---1999 BESS LOVETT--------------------------LCl---------DP---1915 BETTY BLOSSOM-------------------HWich------MP---1923 BETTY SHERIFF-----------------------LCl---------W---------- BEV DOBSON---------------------------LCl---------PB---2000 BILLIE AND LEW---------------------HWich-------M---1995 BIRDSONG-------------------------------LCl--------MP---1991 BISHOPÂS RAMBLER----------------HWich-----DR---1996 BLACHE FROWEIN-------------------LCl--------YB---1916 BLACK BOY----------------------------LCl---------DR---1919 BLACK MAGIC------------------------LCl---------DR---1953 BLACK RUBY--------------------------LCl--------MR--------- BLACK TAQUIN-----------------------LCl---------DR---1955 BLANCHE COLOMBELL------------LCl----------W---1995 BLATENSKA KRALOVNA---------HWch------MP---1937 BLAZE------------------------------------LCl--------MR---1937 BLOOMFIELD BRILLIANT----------LCl-------OP----1931 BLOOMFIELD COURAGE----- ----HWich------RB---1925 BLOOMFIELD LUSTRE--------------LCl---------OP---1931 BLOOMFIELD MAGIC---------------LCl---------OP---1924 BLOOMFIELD MYSTERY-------- --LCl---------LP---1924 BLOOMFIELD ROCKET-------------LCl---------DP---1925 BLOOMIN PRETTY-------------------LCl----------W---1999 BLOSSOM MAGIC--------------------LCl---------MP---1994 BLOSSOMTIME------------------------LCl--------MP---1951 BLUSHING BEAUTY-----------------LCl---------LP---1934 BLUSHING LUCY---------------------LCl---------LP---1938 BOBBIE JAMES-----------------------HWich-------W---1961 BOBBINK WHITE CLIMBER-------LCl----------W---1951 BOLERO---------------------------------LCl----------W---1999 BONITA----------------------------------LCl--------DR---1958 BONNIE BELLE-----------------------HWich-----MP---1911 BONNY-----------------------------------LCl---------LP---1998 BOStimebide-----------------------------LCl---------PB---2000 BRAISWICK CHARM----------------HWich-----OB---1914 BRANDON-------------------------------LCl-------MR---1964 BRASS MONKEY----------------------LCl--------AB---1998 BREATH OF LIFE----------------------LCl--------AB---1980 BREEZE HILL---------------------------LCl--------AB---1926 BRENDA COLVIN---------------------LCL--------LP---1970 BREWOOD BELLE--------------------LCl--------MR---1996 BRIGHT IDEAS-------------------------LCl---------PB---2003 BRIGITTE DE LANDSVREUGO----LCl---------W--------- BRINDIS----------------------------------LCl--------RB---1962 BROADWAY----------------------------LCL-------AB--------- BRONTE----------------------------------LCl--------DY-------- BRYAN-----------------------------------LCl--------MY---1993 BUFF KING------------------------------LCl--------AB---1939 BUKALA---------------------------------LCl--------OB--------- BURBANK WHITE RAMBLER----HWich------W---------- BURG BADEN--------------------------LCl--------MP---1955 BURNING EMBERS-------------------LCl---------RB---2000 BUSH GARDEN CLIMBER----------LCl--------OP--------- BUSHFIRE------------------------------HWich-----MR---1917 BUTTER CUP--------------------------HWich----MY---1909 BUTTERFLIES--------------------------LCl--------RB--------- BUTTERMERE------------------------HWich------YB---1932 BUTTERSCOTCH----------------------LCl-----------R---1986 CADENZA-------------------------------LCl---------DR---1967 CAMPANILE----------------------------LCl---------DP---1967 CAPELINE-------------------------------LCL-------MP---1965 CARISSIMA----------------------------HWich------LP---1905 CAROLINA SUNSET-----------------LCl---------RB---1990 CAROLINE ESBERG------------------LCl--------MP---1926 CAROLYN DEAN----------------------LCl--------MP---1941 CAROUBIER---------------------------HWich-----MR---1912 CARPET OF GOLD--------------------LCl--------MY---1939 CASA BLANCA------------------------LCl----------W---1968 CASCADE-------------------------------LCl--------MR---1951 CASIMIR MOULLE------------------HWich------PB---1910 CASINO----------------------------------LCL--------LY---1963 CASSANDRE---------------------------LCl--------MR---1989 CESKE PRACI CEST------------------LCl--------MR---1970 CHAMPAGNE ARCHES-------------LCl---------LP---------- CHANTEBRISE------------------------LCl-----------------1969 CHAPLINÂS PINK COMPANION---LCl----------LP---1961 CHAPLIN"S CRIMSON GLOW-----LCl---------RB---1930 CHAPLIN"S PINK CLIMBER-------LCl---------MP---1928 CHARIOTS OF FIRE-------------------LCl---------DR-------- CHARLOTTE KEMP------------------HWich-------M---1997 CHARLOTTE VON RATHLEF------HWich------LP---1936 CHATILLON RAMBLER-------------HWich-----MP---1913 CHEERS-----------------------------------LCl--------PB---2000 CHERRIES JUBILEE------------------HWich-----MR-------- CHERRY CHARM----------------------LCl--------PB---1976 CHILDHOOD MEMORIES-----------LCl--------MP---1999 CHIQUITA-------------------------------LCl--------OP---1938 CHRISTIAN CURLE-----------------HWich-------LP---1910 CHRISTINE WRIGHT-----------------LCl--------MP---1909 CIDADE DE LISBOA------------------LCl--------PB---1939 CINDERELLA--------------------------HWich-----DP---1909 CITY OF HARVEY--------------------HWich-----OP---1944 CITY OF YORK-------------------------LCl---------W---1945 CLAIR MATIN--------------------------LCL-------AB---1960 CLARA MUNGER----------------------LCl---------M--------- CLAUDE RABBE-----------------------LCl--------DP---1941 CLEMATIS-----------------------------HWich------RB---1924 COCCINELLE---------------------------LCl--------OR---1956 COCONUT ICE-------------------------LCl----------W---2003 COLETTE--------------------------------LCl--------MP---1996 COLONIAL WHITE--------------------LCl---------W---1959 COLONIA--------------------------------LCl--------MR---1988 COLOR-GUARD------------------------LCL--------DP---2001 COLUMBIA----------------------------HWich------MP---1903 COMMITMENT-------------------------LCl--------DR---1995 COMPASSION---------------------------LCl--------OP---1972 COMTESSE DE CHAPONAY--------LCl---------LP---1924 COMTESSE PROZOR-----------------LCl---------PB---1922 CONQUISTADOR----------------------LCl---------------1983 CONSTELLATION---------------------LCl--------AB---1999 COPACABANA-------------------------LCl--------OR---1966 COPPER ARCH-------------------------LCl---------LP---1991 COPPER CLIMBER--------------------LCl---------OP---1938 COPPER GLOW------------------------LCl---------OB---1940 COQUINA------------------------------HWich------PB---1909 CORAIL----------------------------------LCl---------PB---1931 CORAL CREEPER---------------------LCl---------DP---1938 CORAL DAWN-------------------------LCl--------MP---1952 CORAL GLOW-------------------------LCl-------- OP---1964 CORAL SATIN-------------------------LCl---------OP---1960 CORALIE--------------------------------LCl---------PB---1919 CORALI----------------------------------LCl---------RP---1931 CORALITA------------------------------LCl--------OR---1964 CORAL-----------------------------------LCl--------MP--------- CORDON ROUGE---------------------LCl---------OR---1970 COROLLE-------------------------------LCl--------MR---1962 CORONATION------------------------HWich------RB---1911 CORRAL---------------------------------LCl---------MP-------- CORTEGE-------------------------------LCl---------AB---1976 COTTON CANDY--------------------HWich------MP---1952 COUP DE COEUR----------------------LCl--------MR-------- COUPE DÂOR----------------------------LCl-------MY---1930 COURIER---------------------------------LCl--------PB---1930 CREEPING EVERBLOOM------------LCl-------MR---1939 CREME DE LA CRÃME---------------LCl---------W---1998 CREME----------------------------------HWich------LP---1895 CRESTED SWEETHEART-----------LCl--------MP---1988 CRIMSON CASCADE-----------------LCl--------DR---1991 CRIMSON DESCANT-----------------LCl--------MR---1972 CRIMSON PILLAR---------------------LCl--------RB---2003 CRIMSON SHOWER-----------------HWich-----MR---1951 CRINOLINE-----------------------------LCl---------OR---1964 CRYSTAL BROOK-------------------HWich-------PB---1994 DAME BLANCHE--------------------HWich--------W---1923 DANNY BOY---------------------------LCl---------OR---1969 DANSE DES SYLPHES---------------LCl---------OR---1959 DAPHNE CLAIRE---------------------LCl---------OR---1994 DARLING B-----------------------------LCl---------OP---2001 DAWING CLIMBING-----------------LCl---------OP---1956 DAWN FRAGRANCE-----------------LCl---------OP---1969 DAWSONÂS YELLOW CLIMBER--LCl---------MY-------- DE CANDOLLE-----------------------HWich------OP---1913 DÃCOR-----------------------------------LCl---------OR---1951 DELBARDÂS ORANGE CLIMBER---LCl-------OR---1966 DELHI WHITE PEARL---------------LCl-----------W---1963 DEMOKRACIE-------------------------LCl---------DR---1935 DENEB-----------------------------------LCl---------DY--------- DENNY ARTER------------------------LCl---------YB---2003 DENOR PHILIPPE---------------------LCl----------M---------- DESCANSO PILLAR------------------LCl----------PB---1952 DESIRE BERGERA-------------------HWich-------PB---1910 DEVON MAID--------------------------LCl ---------PB---1982 DEVONSHIRE MAID-----------------LCl---------MP---1993 DIANA ROWDEN---------------------LCl----------OP---1976 DIANY BINNY-------------------------LCl-----------W---1976 DICKÂS APRICOT RAMBLER-----HWich------AB--------- DIZZY HEIGHTS-----------------------LCl--------MR---1999 DON JUAN------------------------------LCl---------DR---1958 DONU------------------------------------LCl-----------M---1913 DORCAS--------------------------------HWich------PB---1922 DORIS DOWNES----------------------LCl----------PB---1932 DOROTHY DENNISON-------------HWich-------LP---1909 DOROTHY DROWNE---------------HWich-------PB---1924 DOROTHY PERKINS----------------HWich-------LP---1901 DOUBLOONS---------------------------LCl--------MY---1934 DOVE RAMBLER--------------------HWich------MP---1921 DR BURT--------------------------------LCl---------RB---1942 DR GALLWEY-------------------------LCl-----------W---1937 DR HENRI NEUPREZ---------------HWich-------LY---1913 DR HUEY--------------------------------LCl---------DR---1914 DR J. H. NICOLAS---------------------LCl---------MP---1940 DR JULES BOUCHE-------------------LCl---------W--------- DR RENATA TYSOVA---------------LCl---------OP---1937 DR W. VAN FLEET--------------------LCl---------LP---1910 DR ZAMENHOF-----------------------HWich------RB---1935 DREAM GRIL---------------------------LCl---------PB---1944 DREAMING SPIRES-------------------LCl--------DY---1973 DUBLIN BAY---------------------------LCl--------MR---1975 DUKAT-----------------------------------LCl--------MY---1955 DUNE-------------------------------------LCl--------MY---1993 DYNAMITE-----------------------------LCl---------DR---1992 E. B. LEGRICE--------------------------LCl----------W---2001 EASLEAÂS GOLDEN RAMBLER---LCl--------YB---1932 EBORACUM----------------------------LCl----------W---1977 EDGAR ANDREU----------------------LCl--------MR---1912 EDMOND PROUST--------------------LCl--------MR---1903 EFFECTIVE------------------------------LCl-------MR---1913 EISENACH------------------------------HWich----MR---1910 ELEGANCE------------------------------LCl-------MY---1937 ELEGANTE, CLIMBING--------------LCl--------W--------- ELEONORA------------------------------LCl-------DY--------- ELISA ROBICHON--------------------HWich-----MP---1901 ELISE NOELLE-------------------------LCl--------MR---1991 ELIZABETH HAMLIN----------------LCl---------PB---1987 ELIZABETH HARWOOD-------------LCl--------LP--------- ELIZABETH HEATHER GRIERSON---LCl----LP---1987 ELIZABETH ZEIGLER---------------HWich-----DP---1917 ELKE FAIR------------------------------LCl--------AB---2000 ELLA SCOTT---------------------------HWich-----DP---1925 ELSIE MAY------------------------------LCl--------MP--------- ELSIE--------------------------------------LCl--------LP---1934 EMA--------------------------------------HWich------LP---1929 EMILE FORTEPAULE----------------HWich------W---1902 EMILE NERINI-------------------------HWich-----DP---1911 EMILY GRAY---------------------------LCl--------DY---1918 EMILY RHODES------------------------LCl--------MP---1937 EMMANUELLA DE MOUCHY------LCl--------MP---1922 ERATO------------------------------------LCl----------W---1937 ERIN FLEMING-------------------------LCl--------MP---1997 ERNA-------------------------------------HWich-----LP---1929 ERNESTINE COSME------------------HWich-----RB---1926 ERNST DECHANT---------------------HWich------W---1928 ERNST GRANDPIERRE--------------HWich------W---1902 ERWIN HUTTMANN-----------------HWich------DP---1941 ETAIN------------------------------------HWich-----OP---1953 ETENDARD-----------------------------LCl--------MR---1956 ETERNAL FLAME---------------------LCl--------OB---1955 ETHEL UTTER-------------------------LCl---------MY-------- ETHEL---------------------------------HWich--------LP---1912 ETOILE DE PORTUGAL-------------LCl---------DP---1898 ETUDE-----------------------------------LCL--------DP---1965 EUGENE JACQUET----------------HWich-------MR---1916 EUGENE TRANSON-----------------LCL---------OR---1926 EUTERPE-------------------------------LCl----------LY---1937 EVANGELINE-----------------------HWich--------PB---1906 EVENING LIGHT---------------------LCL---------PB---2001 EVER READY-------------------------LCl---------MR---1976 EVERBLOOMING PILLOR NO. 122--LCL----YB---1954 EVERBLOOMING PILLOR NO. 126--LCL----MP---1955 EVERBLOOMING PILLOR NO. 214--LCL----MY---1954 EVERBLOOMING PILLOR NO. 340--LCL-----PB---1957 EVERGOLD----------------------------LCl----------MY-------- EVERGREEN GEM------------------HWich--------W---1899 EXCELSA------------------------------HWich------MR---1909 EXPLOIT--------------------------------LCl----------DP---1985 EXPRESS--------------------------------LCl----------DP-------- EXTASIS--------------------------------LCl----------DR---1963 F. FERRER------------------------------LCl----------DR---1940 FAIRFIELD BLAZE-------------------LCl---------MR-------- FALCON---------------------------------LCL--------DR---1998 FANDANGO----------------------------LCl---------PB---1989 FARQUHAR---------------------------HWich------MP---1903 FASSADENZAUBER------------------LCl---------LP---1997 FEDERATION---------------------------LCl--------OP---1938 FERDINAND ROUSSEL------------HWich--------M---1902 FERN ROEHRS-------------------------LCl---------MP---1943 FERNAND RABIER------------------HWich------DR---1918 FERNAND TANNE--------------------LCl---------DY---1920 FERNANDE KRIER------------------HWich-------PB---1925 FEU DÂ ARTIFICE---------------------LCl---------YB---1935 FIAMMETTA---------------------------LCl---------AB---1922 FILAGREE PILLAR-------------------LCl----------DP---1962 FIONIA---------------------------------HWich-------LP---1914 FIRESTAR------------------------------LCl----------MR-------- FIREWORKS, CLIMBER------------LCl----------YB---1935 FLAMENCO----------------------------LCl---------MP---1997 FLAMMENTANZ---------------------LCl---------MR---1955 FLASHFIRE----------------------------LCl----------RB---1992 FLASH-----------------------------------LCl---------RB---1938 FLORA MACLEOD-------------------LCl----------LP---1971 FLORALIES VALENCIENNOISES-----LCl----MR---1955 FLORENCE RAMBLER-------------HWich------LP--------- FLYING COLOURS-------------------LCl---------DP---1922 FOUND FANCY----------------------HWich-------MP-------- FOURTH OF JULY--------------------LCl---------RB---1999 FRAGEZEICHEN---------------------HWich------MP---1910 FRAICHEUR---------------------------HWich------LP---1921 FRANCIS-------------------------------HWich------MP---1933 FRANCOIS FOUCARD--------------HWich-----MY---1900 FRANCOIS GUILLOT---------------HWich--------W---1907 FRANCOIS JURANVILLE----------HWich------OP---1906 FRANCOIS POISSON-----------------LCl---------LY---1902 FRANKÂS CLIMBER------------------LCl---------YB--------- FRAU A. VON BRAUER------------HWich-------LP---1913 FRAU ALBERT HOCHSTRASSER---HWich---LP---1908 FRAU EVA SCHUBERT-------------HWich-----MP---1937 FRAU LIESEL BRAUER-------------HWich-----MP---1938 FRAU MARIE WEINBACH---------HWich-------W---1906 FRAULEIN OCTAVIA HESSE-----HWich------LY---1910 FREDERICK S. PECK------------------LCl--------DP---1938 FREEDOMÂS RING----------------------LCl-------RB---1994 FREEDOM---------------------------------LCl--------W---1918 FREIFRAAU VON MARSCHALL---HWich----MP---1913 FRENESIE---------------------------------LCl--------------1965 FUGUE-------------------------------------LCl-------DR---1958 GALWAY BAY---------------------------LCl-------OP---1966 GARDEN SUN----------------------------LCl-------AB---2001 GARDENIA------------------------------HWich-----W---1899 GARISENDA----------------------------HWich-----PB---1911 GARO--------------------------------------LCl-------DR---1986 GASTON LESIEUR--------------------HWich-----DP---1915 GAVROCHE-----------------------------LCl--------OR---1997 GAY MOOD-----------------------------LCl--------DP---1940 GAYE BABE----------------------------HWich-----PB---2000 GEN. JOHN PERSHING---------------LCL-------DP---1917 GENERAL TESTARD-----------------HWich----RB---1918 GERBE ROSE----------------------------LCl--------LP---1904 GITES DE FRANCE--------------------LCl--------DP---1994 GLADIATOR----------------------------LCl--------MR---1955 GLENN DALE---------------------------LCL-------LY---1927 GLORY OF CALIFORNIA------------LCl---------LP---1935 GOLD BLUSH---------------------------LCl--------AB---2003 GOLD RUSH-----------------------------LCl--------YB---1941 GOLD TOP-------------------------------LCl--------DY---1978 GOLDASSADE-------------------------LCl--------MY---1967 GOLDEN ARTIC-----------------------LCl---------YB---1954 GOLDEN DASCADE------------------LCl--------MY---1962 GOLDEN FUTURE---------------------LCl--------MY---1997 GOLDEN GLOW-----------------------LCl--------MY---1937 GOLDEN LIGHT-----------------------LCl---------OB---1939 GOLDEN ORANGE CLIMBER-----LCl---------OB---1937 GOLDEN PENNY----------------------LCl---------YB---1981 GOLDEN PILLAR---------------------LCl---------MY---1999 GOLDEN PYRAMID------------------LCl---------MY---1939 GOLDEN SHOWERS-----------------LCl---------MY---1956 GOLDEN SUNSET--------------------LCl---------MY---1934 GOLDEN VISION---------------------LCl---------MY---1922 GOLDENER OLYMP-----------------LCl----------DY---1984 GOLDFASSADE-----------------------LCl---------MY---1967 GRAFTON PILLAR-------------------LCl---------MR---1958 GRAND HOTEL-----------------------LCl---------MR---1972 GRAND-PERE LOTTIN-------------HWich-------OP---1918 GREAT PHOEBUS--------------------LCl----------AB---1999 GRETA FEY---------------------------HWich-------LP---1909 GREVINDE SYLVIA KNUTH------LCl-----------W---1913 GRIMM----------------------------------LCl----------PB---1932 GRUSS AN FREUENDORF--------HWich-------DR---1913 GRUSS AN HANNOVER------------LCl----------OP---1938 GRUSS AN KOBLENZ---------------LCl---------MR---1963 GUIRLANDE FLEURIE--------------LCl---------MR---1968 H. F. ALEXANDER-------------------LCl----------AB---1952 HAGOROMO---------------------------LCl----------OP---1970 HAIRCUTTERÂS PINK CLIMBER------LCl-----MP-------- HAITIAN BELLE----------------------LCl----------MP-------- HANDEL--------------------------------LCL---------RB---1965 HANNAH HANSEN------------------HWich--------M---1997 HANS SCHMID-----------------------HWich-------DP---1934 HARBINGER---------------------------LCl----------LP---1923 HARLEKIN-----------------------------LCl----------PB---1986 HARLEQUIN--------------------------HWich-------PB---1935 HARpipin--------------------------------LCL--------OB---1984 HARRIET SHEPPARD---------------HWich-------M---1997 HARRY MAASZ-----------------------LCl---------RB---1939 HARU-KAZE----------------------------LCl---------OP---1986 HARVEST GLOW----------------------LCl---------RB---1941 HASSI-MESSAOUD-------------------LCl---------OR---1961 HEALDSBURG GLORY-------------HWich-------M--------- HEARTÂS DESIRE PINK------------HWich-------PB--------- HEIDEROSLEIN-----------------------LCl----------YB---1932 HEIICH BLANC------------------------LCl----------W---1994 HEINFELS-------------------------------LCl---------DR---1994 HENRI BARRUET---------------------LCl----------PB---1918 HENRI CAILLAUD--------------------LCl---------------------- HENRI DECLINAND------------------LCl--------MR---1934 HENRI LINGER------------------------LCl---------YB---1928 HERCULES------------------------------LCl--------MP---1938 HERMANN SCHMIDT----------------LCl--------DP---1986 HETTIE-----------------------------------LCl--------YB---2004 HIGH HOPES---------------------------LCl---------MP---1994 HIGHFIELD-----------------------------LCl---------LY---1980 HILLTOP---------------------------------LCl---------PB---1989 HIMMELSSTURMER-----------------LCl---------PB---1990 HIPOLITO LAZARO------------------LCl---------DR-------- HOFFMANN VON FALLERSLEBEN---LCl---RB---1917 HO-NO-O-NO-NAMI------------------LCl--------OR---1968 HONOUR BRIGHT--------------------LCl--------DR---1950 HORDEN HALL------------------------LCl---------W---1928 HUGUETTE DESPINEY-------------HWich-----YB---1911 HURST CHARM------------------------LCl--------PB---1936 HURST DELIGHT----------------------LCl---------W---1936 HURST FAVOURITE------------------LCl---------W---1936 ICELAND QUEEN---------------------LCl----------W---1935 IDLE DE FRANCE--------------------HWich------RB---1922 ILSE KROHN----------------------------LCl---------W---1957 IMAGE DÂ EPINAL--------------------LCl--------MR---1997 IMPERATRICE ROUGE---------------LCl-------MR---1956 IMPROVED UNIVERSAL FAVORITE-HWich--MP--1901 INDIGOLETTA--------------------------LCl--------M--------- INDISPENSABLE-----------------------LCl-------MP---1947 INDRA------------------------------------LCl--------DP---1937 INSPIRATION---------------------------LCl-------MP---1946 INTERVILLES--------------------------LCl--------MR---1968 INTRPRPIDE----------------------------LCl--------OR---1972 IRENE JANE---------------------------HWich-------M---1995 ISKRA 82---------------------------------LCl--------MR-------- IVY ALICE-----------------------------HWich------OP---1927 J. K. TYL----------------------------------LCl-------MP---1936 JACOBÂS LADDER-------------------PILLAR----DR---2002 JACOTTE--------------------------------LCl---------AB---1920 JANE EYRE-----------------------------LCl---------MP---1998 JEAN GIRIN---------------------------HWich-------PB---1910 JEAN GUICHARD--------------------HWich------PB---1905 JEAN LAFITTE-------------------------LCl--------MP---1934 JEAN LHOSTE------------------------HWich------RB---1926 JEANNE LALLEMAND---------------LCl--------PB---1954 JEANNE LASALLE--------------------LCl--------MP---1936 JEANNE RICHERT-------------------HWich-------W---1929 JERSEY BEAUTY--------------------HWich------LY---1899 JESSICA--------------------------------HWich------PB---1910 JESSIE CLARK-------------------------LCl--------MP---1915 JITRENKA-----------------------------HWich-------LP---1933 JOHANNA ROPCKE-----------------HWich------OP---1931 JOHN A. WEALL----------------------LCl---------DR---1994 JOHN GROOMS-----------------------LCl----------PB---1993 JOHN KEMP---------------------------HWich-------W--------- JOHNSON STREET GIANT---------LCl---------MP--------- JOSEPH BILLARD--------------------HWich-----MR---1906 JOSEPH LIGER------------------------HWich------YB---1909 JOSEPHÂS COAT------------------------LCl--------RB---1969 JOYENA----------------------------------LCl----------M---1964 JULES CLOSEN-----------------------HWich------DR---1935 JULES LEVACHER-------------------HWich------LP---1908 JULES-------------------------------------LCl--------DR---1997 JULY GLORY--------------------------HWich------DP---1932 JUNE MORN-----------------------------LCl--------RB---1939 JUTLANDIA----------------------------HWich-----MP---1913 KAIMAI SUNSET-----------------------LCl----------R---2004 KALMIA---------------------------------HWich-------W---1911 KASSEL-----------------------------------LCl--------OR---1957 KATHYÂS HUNTERÂS PINK--------HWich-----MP--------- KATIE PIANTOÂS ROSE--------------LCl--------PB--------- KATIE-------------------------------------LCl--------MP---1959 KELLY COUNTRY---------------------LCl---------PB---1997 KEW RAMBLER------------------------LCl--------MP---1913 KEYSTONE------------------------------LCl--------DY---1904 KING MIDAS----------------------------LCl--------MY---1942 KIR ROYAL-----------------------------LCl---------AB---1995 KITTY BRICE---------------------------LCl---------MP---1932 KITTY KININMONTH----------------LCL--------DP---1922 KLEINE ROSEL-----------------------HWich-------M---1929 KLONDYKE---------------------------HWich-----MY---1911 KOALA-----------------------------------LCl---------W---1993 KOCHER RED---------------------------LCl--------MR------- KOJO NO TSUKI------------------------LCl-------DY---1975 KONIGEN-------------------------------HWich-----MP--------- KORBEL VINCA PURPLE------------LCl--------M---------- LÂAIRICAINE----------------------------LCl--------DR---1953 LA FIAMMA----------------------------HWich-----OB---1909 LA FOLLETTE--------------------------LCl--------MP---1910 LA FRAICHEUR----------------------HWich------MP--------- LA PERLE------------------------------HWich------LY---1905 LABRETTO------------------------------LCl---------W--------- LACE CASCADE-----------------------LCl---------W---1992 LADY BARBARA----------------------LCl--------OB---1987 LADY BLANCHE---------------------LCl-----------W---1913 LADY BOUNTIFUL-------------------LCl--------MR---1938 LADY GAY---------------------------HWich--------OP---1905 LADY GODIVA----------------------HWich--------LP---1908 LADY JOHNSTONE------------------LCl----------DP---1922 LADY PENELOPE--------------------LCl----------OP---1998 LANDSCAPE SPLENDOR --------HWich---------W---1996 LANGFORD----------------------------LCl---------MR---1938 LAURA LOUISA-----------------------LCl---------DP--------- LAVENDER MIST---------------------LCl-----------M---1981 LAVERNEÂS GREENHOUSE CLIMBER---LCl---LP------ LAWINIA-------------------------------LCl----------MP---1982 LAWRENCE JOHNSON-------------LCl---------MY---1923 LE MEXIQUE-------------------------HWich-------LP---1912 LE REVE--------------------------------LCl----------LY---1923 LEAPING SALMON------------------LCl----------OP---1983 LEMON LIGHT------------------------LCl----------LY--------- LEONTINE GERVAIS----------------LCl----------AB---1903 LESBOS---------------------------------LCl----------OP---1998 LIANE------------------------------------LCl---------OB---1989 LIBRETTO------------------------------LCl-----------W-------- LIME KILM----------------------------HWich--------W---1970 LITTLE COMPTON CREEPER-----LCl----------DP---1938 LOIS MANEY--------------------------LCl----------OP---1953 LONG JOHN SILVER----------------LCl-----------W---1934 LONGWOOD--------------------------LCl----------MP---1914 LONGWORTH RAMBLER---------LCl----------MR---1880 LOOPING-------------------------------LCl----------OB---1977 LORETTO------------------------------LCl-----------PB---1922 LOUIS RODIGER---------------------LCl----------OB---1935 LOUIS SAUVAGE-------------------HWich---------M---1914 LOUISA JANE MORRIS--------------LCl---------DR---1997 LOVELINESS-------------------------HWich--------LP---1935 LUCILE--------------------------------HWich--------LP---1911 LUCILLE ROSS------------------------LCl-----------W---1940 LUCIOLE------------------------------HWich--------RB---1923 LUDVIK VECERA---------------------LCl---------MR---1981 LUNA PARK----------------------------LCl---------OR---1964 LYBELLE--------------------------------LCL--------MP---1984 LYKEFUND-----------------------------LCl----------W---1930 MABEL STEWART--------------------LCl---------DR---1942 MADELINE LEMAIRE--------------HWich-------OP---1923 MAGENTA BUTTONS---------------LCl----------DP-------- MAGIC CARPET-----------------------LCl---------YB---1941 MAID MARIAN-----------------------HWich-------W---1909 MANDAÂS TRIUMPH---------------HWich--------W---1899 MANITA---------------------------------LCL--------DP---1996 MANlissa---------------------------------LCl---------DP---1991 MANNINGTON CASCADE--------HWich--------W---1998 MARCEL TURBAT-------------------LCl---------------------- MARCO--------------------------------HWich--------W---1905 MARGARET ANDERSON----------LCl-----------W---1931 MARIA LISA-------------------------HWich--------PB---1936 MARIAH CAREY---------------------LCl-----------W---2003 MARIE DIETRICH-------------------LCl----------YB---1928 MARIE GOUCHAULT-------------HWich-------MR---1927 MARJORIE FOSTER---------------HWich--------DR---1934 MARLOWE SOFT ORANGE-------LCl----------AB-------- MARY LOVETT-----------------------LCl-----------W---1915 MARY WALLACE--------------------LCl----------MP---1924 MATSURI-------------------------------LCl----------RB--------- MAXIME CORBON------------------HWich-------RB---1918 MAY QUEEN--------------------------HWich------MP---1898 MAYTIME-------------------------------LCl----------LP---1953 MEDA-------------------------------------LCl---------OP---1942 MELITA---------------------------------HWich------MP---1934 MENDOCINO DELIGHT------------HWich-------W--------- MENDOCINO HEADLANDS-------HWich------LP--------- MENDOCINO SMILES---------------HWich------PB-------- MERCURIUS----------------------------LCl---------OP---1940 MEREDITH------------------------------LCl---------LP---1984 MERVEILLE DE LA BRIE----------HWich------MR--------- MESSIRE---------------------------------LCl--------MR---1963 METANOIA------------------------------LCl---------OB--------- MICH KA---------------------------------LCl---------YB---1998 MICURIN---------------------------------LCl--------MR---1936 MILANO---------------------------------HWich------OP---1923 MILKY WAY---------------------------HWich-------W---1900 MILLE MARTHE CARRON---------HWich-------W---1931 MINNEHAHA--------------------------HWich-------LP---1905 MINOUCHETTE------------------------LCl----------LP---1971 MIRIAMÂS CLIMBER-----------------LCl----------OP---1950 MIRIAMÂS SINGLE WHITE WICHURANA--HWich---W MISS FLORA MITTEN----------------LCl---------LP---1913 MISS HELYETT------------------------LCl---------PB---1909 MISS KATE SESSIONS---------------LCl---------PB---1953 MISS LIBERTY-------------------------LCl--------MP---1956 MISTER AMERICA--------------------LCl--------DR---1974 MME ALICE GARNIER-------------HWich------PB---1906 MME AUGUSTE CHOUTET---------LCl--------OB---1901 MME AUGUSTE NONIN----------- HWich------DP---1914 MME CHARLES LEJEUNE----------LCl---------LP---1924 MME CONSTANS--------------------HWich-------LP---1900 MME GREGOIRE STAECHELIN---LCl---------PB---1927 MME MOISANS------------------------LCl--------MP---1955 MME PORTIER DUREL--------------LCl--------MP---1910 MME ROYET---------------------------LCl----------M--------- MME SOLVAY-------------------------LCl---------DP---1992 MME VICTOR LOTTIN-------------HWich------RB---1921 MOMO------------------------------------LCl--------DR---1995 MON JARDIN ET MA MAISON----LCL---------W---1998 MONETTE------------------------------HWich-------W---1921 MONT HAMEL--------------------------LCl-------MP---1937 MONTHLY RAMBLER----------------LCl-------DR---1926 MOON GLOW---------------------------LCl--------PB---1937 MOONLIGHT FRAGRANCE---------LCl--------LY-------- MORGENSONNE-----------------------LCl-------MY---1988 MORNING DAWN----------------------LCl--------LP---1955 MORNING JEWEL----------------------LCl-------MP---1968 MORNING LIGHT----------------------LCl--------PB---1994 MOUNTAIN SNOW------------------HWich-------W---1985 MR NASH--------------------------------LCl--------MY-------- MRS ANNE DAKIN--------------------LCl--------PB---1972 MRS ARTHUR CURTISS JAMES---LCl-------MY---1933 MRS BILLY CRICK-------

I can understand your sentiments, but I honestly have done the same thing. I had to. There are too many "zones" and micro climates that vary greatly in very short distances. When someone would drive into the place and ask for a rose that would endure the "heat", I had to ask if they were down along the lowlands where "heat" meant 70 - 75 after a morning full of dense fog, or up in the "Highlands" where at the precise time the lowlands may hit the mid seventies, the elevations were literally triple digits. You very often have to dig someone's definition of "shade" out of them. "Full sun" can mean anything from dawn to dusk exposure to all afternoon sun (and sometimes, even less). "Lots of space" has meant everything from a three foot wide by five foot long area to half an acre or more. The person's dedication to investing time and energy also play huge parts. I was called for help designing the "entertainment" area of a client's yard. There are large, sweeping beds which had Icebergs planted by the dozen. They look very good (or did, I don't live in the area now) but she wanted more "color". She had also been collecting Teas and Chinas from the local rose society meetings and I needed to know whether she wanted a garden she SHOULD spend a couple of hours a day playing in, or whether she wanted a colorful area she could choose to play in, or ignore and let the lawn guy dead head it for her. She wanted both, so the entertainment area got to keep its Icebergs but other low maintenance roses were woven through them to provide color and texture, while another area of the yard was pressed into holding her more "intimate roses". Even when both people have similar understandings of the terms, there can still be a LOT of variation to their meanings. I doubt it was snobbery and more a genuine desire to as artfully, correctly match the plant with the desires and tastes of the grower. You want the customer to be happy, and you definitely want him/her to compliment you to their friends instead of complaining you sold them the wrong plant for the wrong place or one that required a lot more care than they wanted to provide. It can sometimes be a damned if you do, damned if you don't proposition.