Hi Debbie,

I wonÂt tell you how many plants I lost during my "early years"Â

Anyways, I donÂt think your plant is necessarily dead, though it does need some TLC from you right now. Natural leaf loss starts with yellowing at the tips. If it starts from the base of the plant, youÂve usually got a problem, probably crown rot or root rot. What I can see of your plant isnÂt screaming virus to me.

In either case, IÂd recommend you start by cutting the spike  I know, itÂll hurt, but you can put it in water and itÂll last a good while as a cut flower. Unpot it and get rid of any dead roots. That kind of pot and media tells me itÂs likely an Asian import and that itÂs been in that pot for a long time. Repot it in fresh media  any media that you do well with should do. I personally like sphagnum moss with a bit of bark and perlite thrown in to prevent the media from eventually becoming a tight ball. And then treat with a good fungicide - Physan if you can get it or IÂve also used Funginex; the latter is available from Home Depot or the like to treat ornamentals such as roses. Then keep your orchid in good light (for a Phal) and warm especially. Also keep it on the slightly drier side until you see new root growth.

I hope that this helps.

Julie

Hi, Counselor. This is really great advice from Julie. (and Julie, thanks-- I didn't know that about tip vs base yellowing :)

I would just like to add this: In your picture, I see a black spot that's familiar to me :(. Where that kind of thing appears, I have usually found root nubs that have failed to develop because they are infected with rot. You have to kill off that rot for the plant to have a chance. Otherwise, it keeps trying and trying to put out new roots, but they keep rotting until the plant is gone.

The thing is, I think it may be *bacterial* rot, so a fungicide may not be enough. Physan is a contact anti-bacterial and anti-fungal, so it does help. Liberal applications of clonex or other rooting hormone-- all over the lower stem of the plant, also sometimes gets new root nubs growing.

I've succeeded with some phals with this problem, and lost others. Success seems to depend on actually stopping that black rot from continuing. When you see root nubs with bright, clean tips, you've won.

As Julie said, you have to repot into fresh medium, because the old stuff is infected.

Thanks all for the info.

It's in a pot of tightly packed moss, so it's I guess I'm not too terribly surprised to hear your diagnosis (but seriously annoyed with the grower)

I'm going to repot it in a mix of bark and moss this weekend. I'll also keep it more on the dry side.

So, should I use fungicide and then rooting hormone? And do I dip all the roots and the bottom of the crown as well? (I've never used fungicide before)

The plant was like this when I bought it. I'm very unhappy with Taida Orchids and would never buy from them again.

You might also try hydrogen peroxide.

It's just a fact of life and globalization. Taida is just a product of that.

Anyways, as for chemical applications. The fungicide will come in a concentrated form - you'll dilute it and then put in a spray bottle. Make sure to cover the whole plant with a fine mist. The rooting hormone will be a kind of gel or paste. You'll dab it around the base of the plant.

I hesitated about whether I should post the following... Orchids adapt and they adapt very well. I keep most of my plants on the drier side - my Phals are actually completely dry before I water again. I've done a lot to improve the amount and quality of light they get, but it's far from perfect, especially in the winter. Giving them less water seems to help me avoid rotting of most kinds. And I seem to remember reading that in drier situations, orchids will often produce more aerial roots to catch humidity from the ambient air. Most of my plants do have copious aerial roots, and the Phals' roots tips stay green for most of the year. I used one of my plants for a repotting workshop this spring and, based on the size of the plant, judged it would be able to be repotted in the same 4" square pot. Not exactly. There were so many nice, healthy and growing roots that I couldn't stuff them back in, no matter what I did. This is anecdotal evidence and perhaps not the best thing to do for beginners, but it is something to keep in mind...

Julie

Thanks Julie.

Really quick, can I use hydrogen peroxide instead of fungicide? I'll dillute it and spray it all over the roots and leaves. and then I'll apply rooting hormone.

I didn't use my best judgment. First, I should have looked a bit closer at it when I bought it (to notice the first yellowing leaf) and Second, I didn't like how compacted the moss was in the pot, but instead of doing what I should have and pull some moss out to allow for breathing space in there, I left it alone. I'm hoping it's not too late and I can reverse the process. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

Thanks again. I really appreciate it. I admit that I'm a bit annoyed/stressed over it but I also know it's a learning experience and is part of the process.

The hydrogen peroxide will quickly turn into water in the environment...it's a great topical treatment, but might not penetrate the way you want it to, so you might want to use something that's systemic. I've been suggested Phyton 27 as a good systemic fungicide (as you can tell by my other post, I too am being plagued with fungus demons). Good luck with the phal! :D

UPDATE:

So, I couldn't wait and repotted the orchid this evening. the yellowing leaf fell right off as did that black spot attached to the leaf.

After investigating, I still think this plant may have a virus and that's why it's turning yellow and dying. Here are pics of it's two last remaining leaves. If you can tell from the pics (as I was trying to explain in an earlier post) the leaves aren't a uniform color. Instead, they have splotches of varying shades of green. I really wish I would have paid closer attention when I bought this because it was like this when I brought it home from the grower. Here are the leaf pics:

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When I took all of the moss off of the roots, I found no rot. The roots looked firm and green.

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So, do you guys still think it's a fungus? (I spot treated with some hydrogen peroxide but will buy a fungicide this weekend to use on the leaves and crown) Or do you think it's diseased? (and should I still remove the spike?)

So frustrating.

In the first two photos, some of the roots look very dark and rotted. However, that could be the lightening, b/c they don't look as bad in the second.

I've never had fungus on an orchid before, but I have on other plants in my garden. Based on that knowledge, I think the black spot looks like fungus and I would suggest an fungicide as others have done.

Sarah

Yeah, poor lighting. sorry. None of the roots were black and they are firm, not mushy. But regardless, it's in a mix of bark and moss, so it will definitely dry out a bit more now. (like i said it was very tightly packed with moss before from the grower)

i'll get fungicide over the weekend. can't hurt.

When using hydrogen Peroxide, do NOT dilute it. Use full strength liberaly. However, in this case, I think physan would be the better choice.

Have you tried increasing their light levels? Roots look great, but maybe there's not enough light to encourage leaf growth.

Just a guess,

Jane

I've seen that splotchy leaf thing before. Even after reading the first part of this site, which shows pictures very similar to yours in terms of the color loss, I would be hesitant to say it's definitely the horrible disease that's affecting this person (and is now affecting my phals). Treating with a systemic fungicide, as well as an insecticide would probably tell you what it's NOT quickly enough though, so after doing that you can try other things ie getting it virus tested or moving it into the light ... at least that's what I would do to narrow things down :)

Sadly I agree with Calvin. I went doing a bunch of research on this forum last night and found the pictures he is referring to. I think I'm going to put this orchid in isolation on my balcony in the meantime. I'm still going to get the fungicide and try it, but I have a bad feeling that I can't stop whatever is going on. I'm not a bit enough grower to test my plants for viruses, so I'm not planning on doing that. But if it dies, I'm going to put my money there.

Viruses seldom kill plants - just makes them ugly and contagious.

IMHO you have a slight bacterial infection and the peroxide or Physan will probably fix the problem if it hasn't infected the crown of the plant. The funky markings on the leaves could be a nutrient deficiency.

Yes, cut the spike but the worst thing you can do for this plant is to put it outside right now. The night time temps are starting to cool off and this plant needs warmth.

Brooke

I agree with Brooke. I don't think you have necessarily have a virus, and as far as the website linked above. Great info, but I don't think your orchid looks nearly that bad or similar. I would try Physan as well, and increase the light. I find orchids enjoy more light when they are distressed.

Sarah

I'd go with nutrient deficiency as well as a first guess, it would also explain the leaf drop. In addition to what everyone else has said, I would add a little Superthrive when watering. This should give the phal the nutrients it needs if it is indeed missing something.

Wow, thank you all again. I'm going to do all of the above and see what happens (ie: fungicide, fertilize, Superthrive) Let's see!

Has anyone tried a fungicide called "Remedy"? It comes as a powder and you mix it with water. I use it on my perennials outside but wonder if it would be OK for orchids.

Just be careful with the amount of fertilizer you apply. Only use a very small amount, less than normal, b/c fertilizer can actually cause more stress on plants when they are already distressed.

Sarah

I agree with Sarah and would even go further, waiting until I had new root growth before fertilizing. As for Superthrive, there are several schools of thought out there and I have heard from some of the more scientifically-minded members of my orchid society that Superthrive can inhibit root growth in many genera.

Julie

My personal experience shows that after dunks in superthrive, my plants' roots start branching out like crazy within a few days. I usually dunk once every 30 days or so, so there is a noticeable difference in growth pattern. I was skeptical at first, but given the results I get, I'll keep using it and recommending it :) Then again, I haven't used it on stranger (to me) genera like masdies, pleuro's, etc, but vandas, catts & phals seem to do just fine.

~Jem

There is/was nothing wrong with that phal that some consistent care wouldn't fix. The roots looked just a little too green to me and indicate a consistent high moisture situation, fine if you have the light to deal but from the shadows outside I am thinking a northeastish location and no supplemental light? Not ideal, especially for a plant that is starting off from a waterlogged situation. Just as there has been rampant overuse of antibiotics in the human healthcare theatre leading to the current crisis of drug resistant infections, if we orchidists dump fungicides on every case of overwatering we will one day reach a point where these products will not have any efficacy. It also does not help that the plant was unpotted out of the sphag. Sphag was not the problem and in an indoor situation in Zone 6 a nice water retentive mix like sphag is a good thing actually. Provided the light levels are consistent enough to promote rapid drying, and they could be without too much trouble.

H

The phal is still in moss, I just repotted it into new moss and didn't pack it as much.

Update: I've taken a bunch of steps recommended above. I don't think it's gotten worse, but it also hasn't gotten better. We'll see what happens!

Orchids are notoriously slow growers, so just like it takes time to see the effects of "bad" care, it will take a while to see the effects of improved culture. And the damaged leaves will likely always look not perfect. You'll see great results with the new growths.

Julie