My tomato season is officially over. I finally gave in and harvested the last of my (unripe) tomatoes yesterday. I had a Black Cherry and 2 Bloody Butchers in bucket SWCs that I've been putting in the garage on cold nights (and for hurricanes), but the vines have finally had it. Our weather this season similar to what many others have posted, spring was on the cool side, summer very hot and dry, then some heavy rains and hurricane in late summer. Early on groundhog attack destroyed 6 of my choice plants and set back 4 others by at least 3 weeks. I had problems with spider mites again during the heat, in part because I reused some of 2010's mix for seedling (bad idea). Plants did fine disease-wise until after the heavy rains toward the end of the season, then early blight and Septoria set in--big time. - Bloody Butcher: 2nd year, 2 plants in small SWCs. Early and excellent flavor and decent production. Will grow 2012. - Sungold: 2nd year, 2 plants in small SWCs. Excellent flavor and good production, some cracking. Will grow 2012. - Yellow Pear: 2nd year, 2 plants in small SWCs. Mild flavor, but a favorite of some family members. Good production. Will grow 1 for 2012. - Black Cherry: 2nd year, 2 plants in small SWCs. Excellent flavor and good production. Will grow 2012. -Rose: 2nd year, 1 in-ground, 1 in 18gal SWC. Was favorite in 2010, but not as good this year. Fruit tended to ripen unevenly. Plant was too big for 18gal SWC. Some cracking. Will grow 2012 (maybe just one). -Big Beef: 1st year, 2 plants in-ground. Very good producer, nice looking fruit, but nothing special in the taste department. Won't grow again. -Black Krim: 2nd year, 1 in-ground, 1 in 18 gal SWC. Decent producer, Excellent flavor, a little cracking. -Mr. Stripey: 3rd year, 1 in-ground, 1 in 18gal SWC. In-ground plant had a lot of cracking and rotting on the vine, but earlier fruit was good. SWC plant had golf-ball sized fruit. Might skip for 2012. -Green Zebra: 1st year, 1 in 18gal SWC. Good producer and surprisingly tasty (a bit lemony). Will grow in 2012. -Cherokee Purple: 2nd year, 1 in-ground plant. Low and late production, probably due to early on groundhog damage. Was 2nd favorite in 2010, so will grow in 2012. -Ramapo OP: 1st year, 1 in-ground plant. Nice tasting basic tomato. Low and late production due to groundhog. Maybe for 2012. -Martino's Roma (Italian Pear): 1st year, 2 in-ground. Nice paste tomato, very good producer. I liked it better than Amish paste from 2010. Will grow in 2012. Grew some Rosa Bianca eggplant this year and like it better than Black Beauty. Also grew 'Fairy Tale' eggplant for 2nd year and it's a keeper. Hot peppers all did very good, low and late yields out of Bells. My main pepper was supposed to be Crunch Sweet Orange, but I wasn't careful saving seed in 2010 and it was crossed (probably with Fresno), so we had lots of red hot peppers instead of orange sweet peppers. We loved the Crunch Sweet Orange in 2010, so I'm hoping someone out there has done a better job than me saving seed so I can try again. Here's to 2012 tomatoes!

gavr6, Thanks, We bought the plan from DreamHomeSource. We were extremely lucky to have picked the best builder in our part of the country. He is a licensed structural engineer and a licensed plumber. I would say he is also an architect(but not licensed) since he can draw and build anything we ask for and have the ability to afford. Our builder has been at the job site every work day, all day long since we started in August. This includes many Saturdays. He is very passionate about what he does and I believe he is truly a gifted artist. drjoann, I'm looking forward to seeing my progress too. Anyway, I think the doors are 8 foot. The walls are 12', Im not sure how high the vault and tunnel are. If you look at the first picture of the front of the house, the whole central section has 12' walls(dining room, living room, and den). The master bath also has 12' walls. The rest of the first floor has 10' walls except for my theater room which has 11' walls(We lowered the floor one foot so the front row seats will be lower than the back row). I'll post some more pics next month.

· Posted by: hnwillis z8 SC (My Page) on Thu, Nov 29, 01 at 15:22 Ya'll gotta be some of the funniest people. After going through the ordeal of many a gardenia suicides, I decided it was time to plant them outside (great humidity and heat-Z8 SC). I hate to say this but two years ago I planted 2 gardenia plants on the northwest side of my house. They have been doing just fine. They are just at 2-3 feet tall. I have pruned them together this past sprng into a low hedge next to my white picket fence. I have planted the trimmings amongst a groundcover of Gerbera Daisies in a 24 inch plastic pot that I also planted a 10 ft crooked willow tree on the southside of my house. I also put some trimmings into small pots with cheap Wal-Mart garden soil. To my surprise, they have taken root and are growing like crazy. I put one particular cutting into a pot by itself to be able to bring in the house. I left it outside all spring and summer (it rained constantly when I first planted them). This one stayed in 5 inches of water/dirt for 2 months. I have brought the sole potted plant into my sunroom and placed it inside a miniture greenhouse. I doesn't seem to be growing like it did outside. I'm really thinking that it likes to be outdoors in humidity, heat and southern exposure. Go figure? So from 1 pruning of two plants I have successfully propagated 10+ little ones. I can't wait until they bloom. Also, the main idea for planting them outside is that my neighbor has a 10 ft tall, 7 ft wide "gardenia bush" that is heavenly when it blooms. I have taken pictures of it because people don't believe me. I know she doesn't do anything special to any of her plants. One thing we do have in common is acidic clay soil which our azaleas and camellias seem to thrive on. · Posted by: bedou z10 Ft. L. Fl (My Page) on Fri, Dec 7, 01 at 1:15 Its 1:09 in the morning. My laughter must have woken my husband up, so I suppose I should put the kettle on! From a nude plot of land in Ft. Lauderdale, I have tried to fill it up with fragrant choices. Yes, Gardenia included. Its yellow leaves tend to give me a good contrast against all those green ones that are flourishing. Alas, they tend to fall off, so I just use them as mulch where they land. Time to find something else! I certainly shall not spend time agonizing over it, from what you have all said. Oh well, I had such high hopes!!! Joanmary · Posted by: fpogoda 5 N NJ (My Page) on Mon, Dec 17, 01 at 12:21 Just wanted to be sure regarding the indoor gardenia temp. issue: is the optimum temperature 70 degrees during the day, then 55 degrees at night? Thanks · Posted by: yugoslava 6 ) on Sat, Dec 29, 01 at 20:56 I have been fairly successful with azaleas and rhododendrons and wonder if it would be possible to keep gardenia dormant over winter and bring it out in spring, plant it among rhodos and leave it until it gets cold. I have admired gardenias from afar for the longest time, but I knew indoor conditions in the winter were not the best, so I have never had one to call my own. Would it be possible to keep gardenia cool over winter as I do with my fig tree and brugmansia? The scent is absolutely intoxicating! One word about people who live in warm or coastal areas. You have no trouble growing tropical plants which we can only see when we take tropical vacations for which we have to pay dearly. I live in Great Lakes Region with short seasons but we all dream of exotic plants growing luxuriantly indoors. Which is why we fret and fuss endlessly. · Posted by: Jenn z9/19 SoCal (My Page) on Tue, Jan 8, 02 at 10:16 This has to be the funniest thread I've ever read at the GardenWeb. I laughed so hard I could hardly talk and had tears in my eyes!! I printed out the whole thread to share with other pour souls who have tried to grow Gardenias according to all the best recommendations, only to watch them wither away. We have a Gardenia growing on a slight slope in alkaline clay soil under a Japanese Black Pine tree. It gets mid-to-late sun. It gets watered whenever we run the lawn sprinklers. It isn't the most prolific plant we grow, but at least it's alive and produces some blooms for us each year. The success is probably due to the fact that my husband is the one who cares for it, and he is not a by-the-book gardener... he just waters whenever he thinks the lawn needs water, feeds it when he remembers (I think the last time was about 2 years ago), etc. LOL!!! · Posted by: Rosalie 5-6 salt lake (My Page) on Wed, Jan 9, 02 at 11:30 this thread is hilarious! and now famous -- a link to it is posted at the garden party forum, so some of us have wandered over to check out your battles -- i believe i will stick with xeric types -- no chicken dances for me -- thanks for the laughs! and good luck to all -- rosalie · Posted by: ccl38 8A Savannah, GA (My Page) on Thu, Jan 17, 02 at 15:59 I too have had trouble with vetchii. Mine was so large and so heavy with blooms I decided to prune it. We couldn't get past it down the walk. Once prunned it went into a decline and it has never been the same. I have another variety that I rooted about three years ago from a large bush growing at the edge of the swamp near where I work. It is mostly in shade, never gets watered and would probably measure 5 feet, and it has those huge saucer size blossoms and smells wonderful. I don't shake a chicken so I guess I must have held my mouth right when I planted it. They are my favorite plant. For me it is a pass along plant. I root them all summer and give them to anyone who comes along and wants one. · Posted by: Joanmary_z10 z10 Ft. L. Fl. (My Page) on Thu, Jan 17, 02 at 19:23 cc 138 you must have 'the magic touch'Well done, and I say that with honest envy. The question is, are you ready, willing and able to produce 75-+ rooted cuttings from a 'proven' specimen with the right karma, one for each of the above postings, to restore our faith in this plant and to bring aid and comfort to all of us who have been brought down by this picky, picky plant? lol!!! Joanmary · Posted by: Lily 5 IL (My Page) on Fri, Jan 18, 02 at 21:16 I got a Gardenia "Veitchii" last January as a gift, loaded with buds. Looking for culture info I found this thread. Aftering reading everyone's experience, I thought I was going to kill it for sure. I held my breath when I was anywhere near it. I misted it daily and then decided not to mist after my hard water left ugly mineral stains on the leaves. More then half of the buds dropped and it refused to bloom indoor! It got a lot of half yellowed leaves before I dragged it outside in late Spring. It thrived outside and bloomed! In the mean time I got hooked on orchids. I started using the leftover orchid water (rain water with 1/4 strenth of fertilizer and a drop of Superthrive/per gallon) to water the gardenia. It's been growing like crazy! Now it's back in the house in front of my south facing window, and in bloom! It's in a 12" plastic pot and about 2 feet tall. Maybe it's the rain water or the superthrive, but there is definitely hope for all gardenia lovers! · Posted by: Jenn z9/19 SoCal (My Page) on Sun, Jan 20, 02 at 13:40 So that's the trick... "water with leftover orchid water". Why don't the gardening books say that?!? LOL! · Posted by: Lali z9, 18, So Cal (My Page) on Mon, Jan 21, 02 at 15:16 I can't believe how long this topic has gone on for. It is sooo hilarious! Anyway, I'm trying my first attempt to grow gardenias. I put them in the backyard (northern exposure) with ferns and azaleas, so I'm hoping they will be ok. Now that I've read this post, I'm really really really skeptical that they will bloom or even live by my hand. Thanks for the laugh! Lali · Posted by: freesias Z9 ) on Tue, Feb 19, 02 at 23:35 Oh My GOD! I just planted THREE 1 gal. 'Veitchii' gardenias in my front yard mixed border. I have a feeling, my are gonna DIE on me. I am definitely not touching these guys! Will water once every couple of weeks. THAT'S IT!!!! · Posted by: susan_CA z9 CA ) on Sun, Feb 24, 02 at 16:05 What a great thread! Gardenia culture is such a thrill of success/agony of defeat experience. Anticipating an unknown failure rate, I bought 6 'Veitchii'! The two planted directly under a tree (where I wanted to sit) and northern foundation exposure died. The two planted in eastern foundation exposure with shade mid-day on bloom copiously all summer. The two planted in western foundation exposure, where light tree shade relieves afternoon heat after 4pm do almost as well. All get composted manure in early spring, pine needle mulch, half-strength chelated minerals whenever leaves begin to pale or MirAcid if I think of it, water from sprinkler system early a.m. (including on leaves) daily in summer in the hot, dry central valley, and have FAST drainage. The two that died were in locations with slower drainage and more shade. The only year I had some bud drop was the year we had a late, wet spring, but they bloomed fine all summer. I have seen specimens in full sun in the central valley; they bloom well, but leaves & blossoms show sunburn damage. So I'm going with the sun/shade, wet/dry, feed/not theory. · Posted by: jxnphx Zn9 AZ (My Page) on Fri, Mar 8, 02 at 0:42 Oh my, oh my! The woman at the nursery said I could have an indoor gardenia in my east-window-garden (morning sun, high level of light the rest of the day), but it sounds like she forgot to tell me I'd need to install a swamp for it, as well. I certainly have plenty of heat for it, here on the low desert. I may be joining the ranks of the guilty gardenia group: I'm not likely to "mist" the miserable thing, nor am I likely to change my habits in on-going care (I am sadly irregular about watering and feeding my only other plant--a low-maintenance Madagascar Palm--dracena). I prepared the soil well enough though (a standard potting soil mixed with half-again as much peat moss), I placed the plant "high" in the middle of the pot, added a layer of peat moss on the top, and covered it all with some additional organic mulch, watered it in with an "acid" feeding, and set it above a large, relatively deep saucer with plenty of water for evaporation. I may have misunderstood the nursery lady's comment about the roots, though, because I removed a great deal of the soil from the root ball and treated the roots with hormone before placing it in the new pot and soil mix. I read in the messages above that this plant may not have liked that messing about with its roots. I believe I'll acquire one of those devices that gives a reading of the humidity, to see just how dry my window garden area really is. We'll see what happens. While I may be capable of sustaining this thing's life for a short while, after reading all of this, I'm not planning on much success with it. I tend to move on to other projects, and I'm afraid the poor thing will have to shift for itself more than it is constitutionally capable. Of course, reading about the success of those who largely ignored their gardenia gives me some hope. That's more my style. At least I have a good excuse for turning the AC down to 70 starting in April. I just don't think the local power usage police are going to understand it when I tell them that my astronomical power draw is necessary for the health of a plant. This is going to be expensive emotionally and monetarily. Who would have thought a trip to the nursery would result in such bondage? · Posted by: Joanmary_z10 z10 Ft. L. Fl. (My Page) on Fri, Mar 8, 02 at 13:16 Oh, what a wonderful laugh this has been! My poor old gardenia is there in Florida, with no one to care for it, depending on the sprinkler system to 'do its thing' and I have no clue what is happening to it. However I have my dark moments when I can see the Christmas lights decorating its bare twigs come December! Taking it that I will be using its twigs as mulch sometime soon, I have bought as a replacement, the African Gardenia. Now I wonder if this is in the same category? Here's to Gardenias who can take neglect!! · Posted by: jxnphx Zn9 AZ (My Page) on Sat, Mar 9, 02 at 15:31 I discussed my newly acquired gardenia issue with my elder sister who, smirking, told me it would probably do me good to have something to worry about. I can only think she was being complimentary about my faultless children and long-ago departed harpy of a wife. She herself has a half-dozen off-spring who provide her with plenty of heart-rending despair. Just in case she was being a smart-ass though, I bought my plant an ultrasonic humidifier which pumps 2.6 gallons of water vapor into the air each day, and I hurried to the used book store and increased my holdings in James Lee Burke (setting: southern Louisiana). I suppose I could have picked up some Faulker, as well, but he's so damned hard to read. I can't stand Tennessee Williams. I am thinking that a few dark and decadent thought-waves might make the gardenia feel a little more at home here in the bright, parched protestant desert southwest. Although it's only been a couple of days, I'm sure it's looking a little better than when I brought it home from the nursery; but just the same, I'm going to keep my eye on a new leaf that is looking a little yellowish. I don't want my dear sister to have the last laugh. · Posted by: BarbC coastal SC (My Page) on Fri, Apr 12, 02 at 15:53 LOL - I have tears rolling down my face and flooding the den. I have 2 unknown variety gardenias that I bought at HD 4 years ago. Since then, I have done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to them and yet they thrive. They survived the great flood of '99 (were under 6 FEET of nasty swamp/river water and were still green 3 months later when the water finally went away) They were only 1ft tall at the time, so literally had 5ft of nasty black water on top of them. I even had to pick dried toilet paper off them, as the flood had taken the contents of 1000 septic tanks along its path. Those two gardenias and the roses were the only plants to survive that mess. Anyway, once I could finally walk through my yard again (without sinking up to my eyeballs in slimy mud) I dug those suckers up and moved them to my new (dry) house (roses too). They are still there and doing beautifully in full southern afternoon sun. I do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING special to them. I don't even ater then during droughts. Maybe that's the secret? The guy across the street has a couple and he also does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to his and his are even nicer than mine. Perhaps we are killing these plants with kindness? Maybe what they really want is to just be left alone?

Amy, Are y'all of Greek descent? It must be a tradition for the Greek churches to have festivals in the fall, because when we lived in Fort Worth they did the same thing, and I think it always was in October too. It sounds like y'all had fun and the weather sounds lovely. We still have tons of grasshoppers---take a step in the grass, and a cloud of grasshoppers arises from it. Usually they are gone by now, but we are so hot that I guess they just keep on keeping on. These are newish ones that hatched after the July and August rains. We didn't have many until after the rain finally fell. Nancy, I think animals know so much more than they can communicate to us and they'd teach us what they knew if only they could make us understand. When we have a pet die, we always let the remaining animals see the deceased one, sniff it, etc. We do that so they will understand where their beloved animal companion went instead of thinking it just disappeared into thin air. I also think the animals often know when one of their animal family members is sick because I've often seen the other animals snuggle and cuddle up closer than usual to the dying animal, as if to comfort it. I absolutely think that the remaining pets grieve for a deceased one after it passes away. When our beloved dog, Biscuit, was dying, he took me down to the 'graveyard' where we had buried his much-loved companion, Sheila, a couple of years earlier. He loved on the rocks that covered her grave, he walked circles around it, he looked me in the eyes and laid down there. My heart sank. In all the time she'd been gone, he'd never done that, and he had been in a slow, steady, recent decline, so I felt like he was telling me that it was time and he was ready to go. I told him no, that I couldn't leave him out there. So, he got up and relocated to the shade of a cedar tree about 15 or 20' away, scratched out a place beneath it, and laid down there in the shade. I let him lay there a couple of hours because he refused to come up to the house with me. As twilight approached, I went and got him and told him he had to come up to the house with me. I knew he was lying down there to die, and I was afraid that if he died slowly, the coyotes would get him that night while he still was alive. I couldn't bear the thought of that. I called Tim and told him that Biscuit was ready to go and explained it all. When Tim got home, we fed Biscuit his final meal, and we gave him 2 cans of canned cat food (because he loved stealing cat food out of the cat dish) and we knew he'd love being fed cat food on purpose. He did. He wolfed down that cat food enthusiastically like the treat that it was, then laid his front paws over the dish and laid his head down on his paws to signal he was done. Tim carried him up the stairs to our bedroom to sleep, and the next morning we made the final trip to the vet. It was so hard to let him go (his photo all these years later still is the wallpaper on Tim's cell phone) but he told us as clearly as he could that it was his time, he was ready and we needed to get with the program. The vet agreed. We buried him right beside Sheila of course. So smart, wasn't he, to know he needed to tell us it was okay for him to go? Then, several years later, when our Honey developed a brain tumor, she kept taking me to the doggie graveyard where Sheila and Biscuit were buried, and I kept telling her no, no, no. I wasn't ready to let her go, and the vet wasn't sure it was a brain tumor. He thought it might be canine vestibular disorder and suggested we take our time and treat her for it. If he/we were wrong and it wasn't CVD, she'd get progressively worse and we could decide then what to do next. When it became clear it was not CVD and was a brain tumor and we knew we had to let her go, I walked her down there and told her it was okay and that we could let her go because we didn't want for her to suffer (she had just had her first seizure as the brain tumor grew). We took her to the vet the next day. She now rests beside Sheila and Biscuit. I still am in awe of those two dogs, their ability to know it was their time, and their method of communicating to us that they were going to depart and we needed to prepare ourselves for it. When Honey's son, Duke, developed heart trouble and his end was near, he let us know---he stopped going for our daily walks--he'd always loved to walk, walk, walk, and just decided he was done, probably because his heart was weakening. I guess he couldn't do it any more. A couple of weeks later, we buried him beside his mama. It sounds like a lot of deceased dogs, but all of them were old and had been our pets (and they had been one another's family) for many years. That's how we went from 8 dogs to 4 dogs over a period of several years and it was hard to lose another dog every couple of years, but they don't live forever. I think Sheila lived the longest--about 18 years and Honey the shortest--about 8 or 9 years. Jet is Honey's sole surviving child and he is 12 years old and really gray-haired now---not just his muzzle and face, but his paws, chest, etc. I wonder how much longer he'll be with us. Jersey is 10.5 years old and she was our 'baby' for so long, but she is now white haired, having skipped going gray and going straight to white. One more thing about pets. When Princess and Ace showed up together, I told Tim I was worried that we were about to lose two dogs. He asked why and I told him that God always brings us a stray dog or two, or a cat or two, right before some of the old ones die. Sure enough, shortly after Princess and Ace showed up we lost Sam, who was about 15 years old, I guess, and then Honey, only a few months apart. No new dogs or cats have shown up lately, so maybe the pets we have currently will be with us a good long while yet. Shortly after Pumpkin showed up three years ago, we lost Spotty the cat, who was 15 or 16 at the time. It is almost eerie, but it reminds me that the universe works in ways we mere humans do not always comprehend or understand. If Titan is like our dogs, he'll grieve for his lost companion too, but also will be accepting of a new animal companion. I think our dogs warm up to a new cat even more quickly that our cats do, as odd as that sounds. I know you'll miss Daff forever, but what a blessing she was to all of you while you had her. Dawn