Didn't you notice 2 months ago that it wasn't working and your pond was frozen?

Of course I noticed! But I live in Minnesota, and the entire yard was covered in over 3 feet of snow. There was nothing I could do about it by the time I noticed the light on the outlet as it had already frozen in place.

I'm sorry for your loss. Hopefully, some will have survived.
One thing you might do next year is to put 2 deicers in there, and only keep one plugged in. As soon as you notice something's wrong with one of them, you can plug in the other one.
What brand was it?
Can you get your pump going soon, to get some oxygen in there?
Again,sorry for your loss. I know its hard to lose things. Alot of this ponding stuff is trial and error. Living in such a cold place must be a real challenge. Hopefully you can figure out what went wrong and prevent it from happening again in the future. I'll keep my fingers crossed that you'll find some of your fish alive.

jodi.......another thought about your deicer......it might have failed, and then the ice caused it to crack, rather than visa versa. Its probably still under warranty, so you could get your money back, or another one. Just make sure your GFCI is working properly too. It might have been what malfunctioned too.

Thanks for the shoulder to cry on Catherine, my husband just made a joke about having fresh sushi. BAD HUSBAND!!!
I will look into getting two different deicers for next winter. I am just not sure what kind/brand.

This one was from Farm Inovators, and was supposed to be good. As for getting my money back, nope! The place I bought it from has a 60 day return policy, and it was "stuck" solidly in ice when that expired. They said to get in touch with the manufacturer, and their response was to return the defective one, at my own expense, and they would send me a replacement. I don't want a replacement.
The gfci outlet is fairly new (3 years), and the circuit was specifically for the backyard, and the only thing plugged into it was the deicer. I have run all the pond equiptment on that line with no problems, and outdoor lights which is a lot more watts then the one deicer.
As for starting up the pump and filters, I think it is still too cold, and there is still a lot of ice. Today is just above freezing, and we will be tottering between 30's and 40's for highs with nights below freezing for at least another month. During the day the edges where the water is shallow, of the big pond melt, and the smaller one totally melts by the end of the day, but they both refreeze again at night. My set-up is a long stream with multiple falls, then the big pond, and then another small stream (that the koi used to swim back and forth to a smaller pond.
The waterfalls and streams are still all ice and snow, and I don't think the ice has cleared out of the lines for the water to flow up them yet.

What about just putting a smaller submersible (1200gph) pump inside and letting it just run? Would that make a difference? Would it even work in the cold?

Thanks for you help. This is the first winter I kept the koi outside in the pond cause they got too big to bring inside to the tanks.

Hi Jodi,
I'm certainly no expert. I have a tiny watergarden and no fish.
But until somebody smarter than me comes along here to help, I'll just give you my 2 cents. :)
I would go with another pump. I don't think it can hurt, and it would help with the ice and oxygenating things. Is there any way you could have a rigid tube come up and out of the water for a little bubbling action, to help oxygenate it even more?

Hi again Catherine, I am far from an expert myself. This is my third year having and getting addicted to ponding! We built a small pond the first year, then the stream the second along with more extensive landscaping, and last spring put in the second larger pond and more landscaping around it. I will try to post a couple pics, if I can figure out how.
I will see what I can get "rigged up" and let you know how it goes.

Even though having waterfeatures and fish are beautiful, and addicting, they are a lot of work!!!! If I loose all the koi, I don't think I will be replacing them. I think I will just have to resign to water and plants, along with the frogs and other aquatic creatures that make my backyard their summer home.

Jodi

I think I might tend to agree with you if I lived in such a cold area. I would spend the entire winter worrying about them. And if we had power failures (like we do here), it would be a real problem.
I just have lotus, lilies and frogs (and a snake), and that keeps me happy.
It wouldn't surprise me if at least some of your fish survived. You should find out pretty soon. Good luck!

Here is a pic of second pond from last summer taken from the second floor window.

Jodi

We own one of those deicers and it has worked well for us. LAST winter we forgot to put it in the pond. Winter 06-07 was a cold one and there was a looooong period of time when the top was frozen. (Many sections of pond plumbing pipe cracked and had to be replaced in the spring.) We tried to chip away some of the ice but could not because it was so thick. I was *certain* my fish wouldn't make it, but lo and behold ALL (mostly long-finned koi) survived except for one that ventured into the skimmer w/o us realizing it. My guess is that when in hibernation at the bottom, they breathe so slowly that there is enough O2 to last for awhile? So, Jodi, there is hope!

THIS WINTER- after we turned off our big pump, we put a small pump down in an area of the pond that doesn't freeze. We floated the deicer and put the small plastic hose near the deicer. So, there was the little hole with a little "waterfall" working all winter even when the rest of the pond has thick ice on top. I can't remember what brand of deicer we purchased, but I recall it being one of the more expensive ones --- over $50 for sure--- @ 4 years ago.
BTW---Just today, I saw all of my "babies" swimming" around They made it though another winter!

Hi Ronnie,
Thanks for the hope. We have a few more weeks here before the ice will be totally gone, our ground is still frozen solid and doesn't thaw out till April at the earliest.
The pond saucer was NOT cheap, but I don't want to try another one. What brand/style are you using?

Yesterday and today the temps are just above freezing, so the ponds are both completely frozen over again. The smaller one will melt alot by late afternoon, but the big one probably won't do more then melt at the edges. I am not even going to try to get any pump into it now. I hate even going out there since the first thing I see when I look at it is the one koi frozen in the ice.

I tried to post a pic yesterday of the pond but I guess the site was having problems. I couldn't even post a message that I couldn't post a pic.

I will try again today.
{{gwi:87096}}

Jodi

Before next winter, I would get the outlet checked out before you use another deicer. If it is 3 years old, a LOT can happen to the outlet in 3 years. I am not convinced the de-icer is the culprit. Our GFCI malfunctioned in its 2nd year, less than 18 months after it was installed for the pondsai. Between our high winds and fluctuating temps, water had apparently found its way into the outlet, freezed and thawed a few times, which caused enough damage to make the outlet short circuit. Our electrician (who has been with our extended family for almost 30 years and is no slouch) said that the high winds we have here on the east end of LI can wreak havoc on any external outlet. He has see the hinged outlet flipped open by winds and ruined by moisture blown inside. Just a couple nights ago we had 70+ mph gusts all night.

I would also go with a bubbler close to the surface near the de-icer all winter.

This year I was extremely worried about our high winds and fluctuating temps, so I bought a pop-up greenhouse and used it over the outlet....worked wonders! It came with 6 tie-downs and stakes.
I also have a pop-up greenhouse over my external filter and airpump for my bubbler, which I have kept running all winter.
I didn't think the pop-up greenhouses would survive our east end LI wind storms, but they did. :)
(I used the 6 stakes, hooks and tie-downs for each)

I also agree with the theory that the freezing ice broke the de-icer.

Here is a link that might be useful: Pop Up Greenhouse to use over outlet. and/or pumps/filters

Jodi, Beautiful yard, beautiful stream and pond! You must be the envy of your neighbors!
I have had a good winter, and a bad winter, and now a good winter again as far as the fish are concerned. Your pond is deep, so I think your fish will be ok (I'm afraid you'ld see other dead fish under the ice otherwise). Last year my 100w Pondmaster de-icer that worked great the first year, couldn't keep up and froze over for 3-4 weeks, I lost several fish. This year I put in a stock tank heater and put a sheet of styrofoam across 2/3 of the pond. I also run a small aquarium air pump to a stone below the heater. I had 2 days where snow covered the whole works, put there was open water at least right around the heater 24/7. Today the ice melted off most of the surface and I can see my big goldies suspended down there!
I just use a 5 gallon bucket to cover my outlet and airpump, then set a rock on top to keep it from blowing away. I must say those pop-ups are certainly more attractive though!
Sarah

Sheepco, has given some good advice for wintering a pond.
She mentions shielding the floating de-icer/stock-tank heater, whatever you want to name it, by placing a Styrofoam board over the area of the pond where the de-icer is located.

If you read the instructions that come with Farm Innovators pond de-icers, they advise the user to shield the de-icer with a board or screen to stop the extremely cold winds from blowing directly onto it.

They also mention that it is is possible that their d-icers may not function properly if they are not protected

I would suggest to you that it is very possible your de-icer froze into the ice, because it could not keep up with the cold temperatures surrounding it. It then split open due to the ice pressure on it's shell, consequently letting water in that caused the GFCI to trip.
There is a link to Farm Innovators site below and part of their instructions for using their pond de-icers

I use a small pump to keep the surface of the water moving all winter long. But since mechanical objects can fail, I also have a Farm Innovators pond de-icer as a stand -by just in case things go wrong.

Should you consider using a de-icer of this particular type [1200/1500 watts] as a stand-by item.
[Not a lower wattage type,[100/200 watts] as they may not get hot enough for this procedure]
The 1200/1500 watt type of de-icer, can be placed directly onto the ice covering the pond and plugged in. It will slowly work it's way through the ice covering.
Do not just place it on any snow that may be covering the frozen pond, as it will not work as well in melting through, if at all.
It must be placed on the ice surface to work. Be patient it will melt through. Don't forget to also shield it from the wind.
"Horton"

Here is a link that might be useful: Farm Innovators site.

I'm wondering if it makes sense to drill holes in the ice & keep them open for air holes? Is that enough to release the bad gasses?

I imagine there would be some vibration from the drill but is it harmful to the fish like pounding or chipping the ice would be?

I'm needing to know all this stuff because next winter I hope to have my fish outside....

>>>The pond saucer was NOT cheap, but I don't want to try another one. What brand/style are you using?I'm pretty sure the one we've used @ 3-4 winters is a Thermopond. It is a black floating "saucer." We haven't had any trouble w/ itl. It seems we paid @ $50(maybe w/ shipping?) for it 4-5 years ago??? They are currently advertised online for mid $30s - mid $40s .

Hi everyone, thanks for all the responses.

Joyce, thanks, we had already done that, and it tested fine. It is also not out in the wind, but against the house and fairly protected by some pyramid junipers, and it has a protective plastic cover that locks down and has a rubber gasket around the edge, so the snow and rain can't get into it. All newer outdoor outlets here in Minnesota are built like that.

Sheepco, thank you for the complements on my landscape. I am an artist, and when we built this house I told my husband I wanted the yards to be pretty enough to paint.
I know what you mean about the winters! I actually had protected that entire end of the pond, as recommened by Farm Innovators, and had laid a sheet of marine plywood over that entire end of the pond, (on the viewers left) where the pond saucer was to protect it from the winds, and keep the snow from being able to pile up on it to the point where it couldn't keep up to melt. The backyard faces due south, and the winter winds come from the north, and northwest. We also have a fence and more landscaping to stop the winter winds from whipping around the house and hitting that area. Also the pond is set fairly low in the landscape which as you may be able to tell from the pic that it has hills and swales, and that pond sits in the lowest area of the yard. So winds are very light there.

Horton, thank you also, I have already addressed most of what you said, but I agree, that most likely, even though both Farm Inovators and the online store I bought it from, which are actually located in Wisconsin, said that this pond saucer has NO trouble with our winters, I don't think it really could keep up with our temps. I think that IF my fish survive, next winter I will go with the bigger, more power consuming, models.

Ronnie, did you have a bad experience with the saucer too?

Jodi

Jodi, I'm sorry to read that you had all that trouble with the de-icer after taking all the prescribed precautions.
The more of your information I read, makes it sound like you had a faulty de-icer.
All my dealings with Farm Innovators and their de-icers, have been very positive, but I'm sure even they, the largest manufacturers of de-icers,stock-tank heaters etc,in the world, can have their product problems from time to time.

It is up to you of course, but I would send it back,even if you have to pay the shipping costs and obtain a replacement under their warranty. Most warranties now days require that the purchaser pays the return shipping charges.
Dan Wort, dwort@salesfarminnovators.com is a very helpful and de-icer knowledgable person. I beleive he would be interested in finding out why one of their de-icers failed.

Would you mind letting me know what the model number of the de-icer you purchased is? I'm just curious about the wattage etc.
Thanks,
"Horton"

I agree with Horton,
Maybe you just looked at the written warranty, or asked someone who answered the phone, but I think you should talk to a manager. It really does sound like you did everything possible to help it run right, and it went kaput nonetheless. It sure does sound like a faulty piece of equipment. I think if you push hard enough, you could get a replacement.
I've found that if you're reasonable and don't start getting angry, and give good facts about what you did and what happened, most places give you a break.

>>>Ronnie, did you have a bad experience with the saucer too?
JodiNo, Jodi . . . our Thermopond "saucer" deicer has worked well for 3-4 winters.

Good Morning All,
Thank you for so many responses.
Horton, here is a link to the model I bought: http://www.bestnest.com/bestnest/RTProduct.asp?SKU=FI-PS-200&src=froogle&kw=FI-PS-200
I will be emailing Dan Wort today to see what he says.
We are currently having spring (winter really) snowstorms and my ponds are frozen solid again, and under half a foot of new snow. Before the snow hit I had gotten enough melt, to see that I had not just one dead koi that had gone near the saucer, but two, and a couple frogs.

The biggest problem I think was the fact that the instructions for use of the saucer in larger ponds is to place it in a shallow area near the edge, which I did. Being that it was in shallow water, (about a foot) the fish wound up also in shallow water, that would not have taken long to refreeze once the saucer stopped working.
Now that it is frozen over again, and snow covered, it may be a while before I find out just how many koi are still alive, if any.

Ah ha Jodi, That is a new one to me and my own opinion is, that at only 200 watts it would not do the job for your pond situation.
There are other people who possibly use low wattage de-icers with great success and there are others who have suffered the same way as you, with a frozen-over pond and a cracked de-icer.
Like every thing else in ponding, situations vary, per yard, county, state [or province]. Some times it is difficult to give a definitive answer, to why things work okay for one person, but not for another.
Good luck with Dan Wort, I hope he is of assistance to you.
"Horton"

Wow, you're really making me nervous here. I'm also in SEMN and been reading up and planning all winter to put a (much smaller than your beautiful setup) pond in. Did you have yours done commercially? Those look like some sizable stones in the stream.
Oh well, no matter how mine turns out I'll have the fun of planning, sweating and eventually (inevitably) redoing it next year - grin
Will

Hi Jodi,

We had the same thing happen,i don't remember the name of mine,yesterday there were 4 dead koi,i, too,am so sad,can you put an airator in there right away,they need air,we are hoping we won't lose them all, i understand how you feel, the ones we lost we also raised from babies.I'm sorry for your lose.

Carol

Hi again all,
Horton, I couldn't agree with you more, obviously the low wattage is not enough to keep up with my Minnesota winters, even though they say it does. I have not heard back from Dan yet, but it is a holiday. I will let you know what he says if he does get back to me.

Will, don't be nervous, you should dive right in, the water is fine, all be it a bit cold right now. LOLOL! Honestly, I may have had a setback with my koi dilemma but I love ponding! It is so peaceful to have the sound of water and the sites of the wonderful wildlife that make my backyard their home every spring/summer. I get dozens of frogs and birds, dragonflies, butterflies and even the occasional snake because of the pond and stream. I get to sit on my deck and watch birds of all types bathe and drink from the stream, and fish play in the falls, dragonflies perch and hunt from bamboo stakes I have placed in the waterlily pots, and every night a serenade of frog song and crickets fill the air. I can grow beautiful waterlilies, flag iris, and this year, with luck, lotus, and dozens of other beautiful waterplants, and hear the sound of the stream and falls as I work or just enjoy the gardens. Some of the boulders are pretty large although they are considered two man boulders, they were a challenge moving. Actually we, my husband and I did all the work ourselves. I have a background in design, and am either too stuborn or cheap to pay someone to do what I know how to do myself. Besides the exercise is good for us! LOLOL! Every spring my husband asks me, "so what backbreaking project do you have for me this year?" and by the time we have finished it we swear, no more, but....
BTW, I sent you a reply to your email. Thank you!

Carol, Sorry to hear you have gone through the same thing :( I could, if I had one, and if there was a hole in the ice to get the tube through. As I said we just had another major snowstorm and it is all solid ice again. I know they need air, but it has had the chance to get some air exchange the few times the ice has melted around the edges. We are supposed to finally get a decent warm up this week, with temps hitting near 50 by Friday, that should be enough for a lot of it to melt.

You guys are all great, I can't thank you enough for your help and concern. I am glad I have you all to talk to.

Thank you!!!!
Jodi