Wow, Marlene...that is a JOB! We put in a liner like that 4 yrs. ago...so far, so good...good grief, I hope a deer doesn't find ours! We have lots of deer around, too! Do you keep your pond open in the winter & leave the Koi out? We made our's 3 ft. deep in the center so we could leave fish out over winter. Well, you 3 certainly deserve BIG "pats on the back"...AWESOME job & lookin' good! TFS! Jeanne S.

Waterbug guy, First I will talk a little bit about concrete in water. You say it is a myth that concrete in water can kill fish and raise the PH. When concrete first sets up the surface PH is 12.0. Which is the same PH as a drain cleaner called "draino". As it is exposed to the CO2 in the air the PH goes down. But water is a very good leaching agent and so water will continue to try and get the chemicals out of the concrete. So will the PH in the water be raised? If the water has normal PH of 6.5 to 8.5 the answer is yes. The real question should be "how much will it raise it"? That question isn't easily answered as there are a lot of variables. Just to list some the age of the concrete, the condition of the concrete, is the water flowing over the concrete, the natural PH of the water, is the water being changed, and the volume of the water versus the contact area of the concrete. In some cases the rise might be so low as to make it very difficult to measure. But in other cases it can and does raise the PH to 9 to 9.5. At these levels it can and does kill fish. If I remember correctly you have stated that you are a pond contractor. If you are I hope you having started using roofing liner in the ponds that you build. Most of the time a person on this forum is never going to have a problem with roofing liner. Can there be a problem with roofing liner? This should be the question. The answer is yes. The chances that there could be a problem is very low. The largest pond product manufacturer in the US sent out a letter to all their customers a number of years ago. This letter said that all their liner in the future would be tested to be fish safe as they got a batch in that was not. In other words they were selling roofing liner as pond liner. This company had been selling a lot of liner for 10 years before this problem. If it had happen today with the wide use of the internet I would have think that some lawyer would have gotten this information and started a class action lawsuit against them and they would be out of business. The lawyer could easily have sued them not only for the cost of the liner that they had sold but for the cost to replace all those liners in the ponds built with them going back to the first time they sold this liner. The largest liner manufacturer in this country has told me that almost never would you ever have a problem with roofing liner but you might. I think that as a contractor you can't take that chance. If you were unlucky and did have a problem and were sued over that problem the lawyer handling the case would find out that they would sue for every customer that you have that has this liner. In other words you would be out of business. So is roofing liner toxic? No most of the time. But there is a small chance that there maybe a problem. I have only talked about 2 of the 8 things that you listed. I could easily talk about many of the other things listed but my point is this. You listed these things as black and white but they are not black and white. The only thing that is black and white about ponds is that all aquatic life will die. Mike

As an update: We sued the company that installed the pond. They are no fly-by-night place as they do most of the colleges and commercial locations in a 4 county area here in PA. We won our case but it did seem as if the judge was a bit overwhelmed by all of the information we gave him. The contractor sent one of the owners of the company to court and he was also very overwhelmed at how much information we had. We had books and pictures from his own site and that of Aquascape, his certification company. We did not win much money, but he did not pay the judgement we did win against him. I went to our county courthouse and even though it cost me 90.00 paid to have the judgement certified. An attorney told me that with the judgement certified, anyone who looks to see if he has any judgement against him will see that he does and he will have to explain it each time someone does a search. I also posted to angies list and the BBB. Our pond continues to have a few problems, but they are manageable without redoing the whole thin. We keep a deicer going in the winter and the pump going year round. We are careful to keep the pump and biofalls under close scrutiny. We salt and bacterize as needed and make sure the ammonia and nitrogen levels are stable. It has taken some of the fun out of it but we are not going to redo it unless we have no choice. Sorry so long between posts and thanks for the interest! Gayle

Thank you everyone. I was so worried I was being a PITA. I am so happy you enjoy my pix. GG, I went and peeked at my dat buds before, and I have a Tatula Le Fleur opening..it's the one I thought was going to be a white, but I can see the lilac now. This will be my first dat bloom!! Will post pix after they bloom..keep those fingers crossed for me :) thanks! O and I have more purple buds than I thought..PLUS I have a big one I think will be a yellow..*fingers crossed :) HAHAHA!! Brenda, the water gets cloudy in the afternoon, think its from the sun..I read that somewhere. And there is a very fine film of dust on the liner..can't help it with the dogs always running around, but it's not that bad. It IS great to be able to see the bottom, water so clear. I don't want that algae to come when it's cycling!! but I know it will. Hopefully the plecos will keep on top of it. I am using beneficial bacteria to speed things up. Thanks Rigo :) lol Karyn, if you were closer, I'd def help you out! It's so much fun! Thanks Collielover! I have decided to remove the preform the fish were in previously. I think I cracked it when I was trying to catch the plecos..but I got em today!! they are SO fast. So instead of making a raised brug bed in the middle of the yard with the extra dirt, I will just fill in that hole, and put some brugs there. Still keeping the lil'est preform going though. Started deconstructing today..hey I was able to use the rocks from it, lol. Still need alot more. I have to check the weather again..we still didnt get any storms? Had a bit of rain, couple claps of thunder and that was it. I am counting on that rain! thanks again everyone :)