Footballmom-
whew! Close your eyes and take a deep breath. :o)

first of all keep the checkbook closed and locked away.

I don't know a lot about ponding as I am building my first right now but I do know don't pay anything until you are satisfied.

Some of what you said I didn't understand. were they supposed to expand the existing pond?

an oval pond 8x9x2 is about 855 according to an online pond calculator

let's have some pictures if you can. What are your specific questions?

you can get through this, stand your ground. :o)

RexAnne

Absolutely don't pay them anything. If you have a contract, and you should, what does it say? If measurements differ from contract they are obligated to complete to contract specifications. They don't sound too professional to me. They also need to replace the lost fish.

Your pond needs to be deeper to winter your plants and your fish.

I'd call someone in management and have them come do a walk through with you. If it isn't what you want and isn't what the contract specified don't pay them. This is the time of year that business is booming and maybe they didn't allow enough time to build your pond correctly and they are on to the next job, but I'd be calling someone first thing in the morning.

If they complete the job based on the contract I'd still wait a couple of weeks before paying to make sure everything works okay and you've had some time to be sure everything is the way you want it.

Is the liner covered in rocks? The liner may be at 2 feet but with rocks, it can make the pond much shallower.

Ask the company how deep the liner is. If it is two feet, remove the rock at the deepest area. If you want the liner covered with rock, choose a flat rock that will not affect the depth much.

You definitely need to have a company representative walk the project with you and state your complaints.

If they said it would be 11' x 8' and 2' deep, that is ALOT different from your original 8' x 9' and 2' deep...average it any way you want! Call 'em back and don't pay them 'til you get what you contracted for!
Shallower is NOT acceptable, because your fish will suffer.
Hang in there!

Registered pond builder doesn't mean a good contractor. Some of the worst work I have ever seen was done by "professionals" in every field. Especially ponds and gardens. As a contractor myself I know that if my customers were not satisfied I'd atleast attempt to remedy the situation. Cutting your water volume by 60% is about as bad a situation as you can have. Here in Pa that little bit of two foot depth will not overwinter many fish. My customers are constantly asking for bigger ponds not smaller ones. If you haven't paid them yet than I'd demand some sort of resolution before you do pay.Unfortunately more volume is the only way to resolve a volume issue. Most importantly you now know that self promoting "registered professional" doesn't mean anything. Often times the contractors, masons, landscapers in your own neigborhood can give you a work of art for far less than some pro.

Here's what I would do:

Do not pay them.

Write up a list of times, dates, and names of who promised what, who did what, who answered what concerns you raised, etc. There's a water volume calculator on here somewhere and you can plug in the depth, width and length of your pond and figure it. A thousand gallons vs 200 gallons -- we can figure that out easy enough.

Conclude your letter with the observation that what the crew left on your property is unsatisfactory for these reasons, A, B and C, and then write the specs of what you want from this pond. I would ask that they haul out the liner, dig deeper -- three feet deep in the deepest spot, and 18 inches deep in the shallowest part, replace the liner, and then subtract the value of the dead fish from their original estimate, and you will pay the difference AFTER the new pond has been up and running, with filters, not leaking, for at least two weeks.

They're not going to do it. One hopes that they will scuttle off and call it even. Then you either dig it yourself or hire some boys to dig it. You are fully capable of designing this pond yourself, with the help of this forum, and then buying the components you need from websites we all can recommend. Your pond contractor is, how you say, a steaming turd.

You can do this. We can help. You can't do worse than those yahoos. We're all pulling for you and we've all been there or somewhere just as despairing.

-- Zinnia

Hey football mom! Like everybody says! Don't pay!

And, when you have that discussion, do NOT give in to demands for more money. You should already have a written estimate, and they are not allowed to go more than - what is it exactly - 5%? 15%? above it.

Something that works very well for us when we have a complaint is, I have my husband stand next to me, he is 6 1/2' tall, and it is really helpful when he scowls DOWN at the person. If your husband isn't tall, borrow somebody elses! Maybe a very tall and large football guy! The other thing we do is, I start talking, then when I get all worked up, I hand the conversation to husband, and he typically looks down on the person, and says, "So, what are you going to do about this?"

And Zinnie is right. We will all help you when (not if!) you are going to do it yourself. You can always get the football team to come and help dig and have a pizza party after!

:) Mary

I echo eveyone else....don't pay them until you are happy with the pond. I had the same thing happen. I had them pull out all the rocks, take out the liner and make it the depth they had agreed to do. Life's too short to live with a pond you're not happy with. :)

Pam

Ditto again. I wouldn't give them one plug nickel till they do it RIGHT!!! What part of Pa are you from? A STEELER fan maybe? LOL I'm from the Pgh. area.

I would get the head supervisor out there, point out to him exactly what was not done right. Just because they say they are pro's doesn't mean a thing. They're saying they have a paper saying they can dig a hole. I would also try to go at least 3 ft. deep. Two foot can be iffy if we get a really nasty Pa. winter.

GOOD LUCK!!

Perrys Water Gardens in Franklin NC and Bonnies Plants in Newton NC have plants and fish for sale. They do not ship their fish though. I have ordered Shubunkins and Comets from Springdale Water Gardens in Va. I have never lost a fish they sent to me and they include extras to make up for any that might not make it. Their shipping is the most reasonable of any I have seen for shipping fish. I would recommend all the above, The plants I had shipped from them were very nice plants. No complaints. Glenda

The previous post was not supposed to go on this one. I Goofed and meant to answer Zoenipp's post. Sorry. Let's see if I can fix this. Glenda

When dealing with contractors go over every detail before the work is started. Have drawings if possible and try to be there to insure the work is done the way you want it. Have a meeting with contractor. They will probably make it right, but watch them. Money is a great motivator.

This is a topic I'm always interested in. There are great tips and info from the people that have posted to help you. I'm a 'pro' and run a water feature specific landscaping and retail store front. I have to agree with some of the comments, a lot of the work I do is fixing other landscaper's attempted ponds. I've seen jobs that the company literally switched job specs and built the wrong pond for that location. Its not an excuse, but if they are more concerned about pumping out volume and not quality, this can happen. They didn't complete the job to specifications and they should either fix it or not get paid. Simple as that.

This is kind of a personal rant and is intended for all future ponders or re-doers. I'm sure there are some exceptions to this rule but it holds true most of the time. If the business card or sign lists 'waterfalls' and 'water gardens' as their third or later specialty ... IT ISN'T THEIR SPECIALTY. I'm sure a plumber could wire your house, but don't you want an electrician to do it? There are few rules or benchmarks for pond builders because it is a relatively new profession. And so many hardscapers really just do it because there is demand, not because they are good at it. Just be careful, cheaper isn't better, and you have to see previous work.

breaker!, breaker! come on back footballmom! got your ears on?

rexanne

After hurricane Katrina, there were a lot of contractors here doing things..A lot of people were had by them. I got had by local store contractors, people in the phone book, and people off of other listing. There was a lot of people who either were had by poor work or by people who were paid to do something but left out of town without doing the job at all..So I learned to do a lot of things myself, like dry wall, frame work, etc. It's amazing how good of a job you can do with the right information and the right tools and supplies. I am happy with my own work and the projects cost me a fraction of what I could have paid for..

The pond was another project, not something that had to be done, but one I wanted to do for myself and my family that was rewarding. Thanks to this site, I was able to accomplish the idea, the job, and maintenance..I also enjoy that it's an ongoing project that gets better with time..and who knows, I am already thinking about the new and bigger pond I want to build after learning a lot on here and the experiences I have had with this first pond.. : )

You've been given a ton of advice, I just wanted to offer my sympathy and say I would not pay either. I'm astounded that they thought what they did would be acceptable! Good luck!

I hope this info helps...before I jumped into a much larger pond...17x15x32" deep....I had a small preformed pond given to me...It was one of the smaller ones that Lowe's sells...It was around 100 gallons...I had 9 comets and 1 koi that was about 10-12" long..the water was on the average 11" at the deepest..I'm in Parkersburg..WV..and those fish survived 3 or 4 winters..I never lost a fish..one year I would guess they only had 4" of water below the ice....hope this helps...

As an update: We sued the company that installed the pond. They are no fly-by-night place as they do most of the colleges and commercial locations in a 4 county area here in PA. We won our case but it did seem as if the judge was a bit overwhelmed by all of the information we gave him. The contractor sent one of the owners of the company to court and he was also very overwhelmed at how much information we had. We had books and pictures from his own site and that of Aquascape, his certification company. We did not win much money, but he did not pay the judgement we did win against him. I went to our county courthouse and even though it cost me 90.00 paid to have the judgement certified. An attorney told me that with the judgement certified, anyone who looks to see if he has any judgement against him will see that he does and he will have to explain it each time someone does a search.
I also posted to angies list and the BBB.
Our pond continues to have a few problems, but they are manageable without redoing the whole thin. We keep a deicer going in the winter and the pump going year round. We are careful to keep the pump and biofalls under close scrutiny. We salt and bacterize as needed and make sure the ammonia and nitrogen levels are stable. It has taken some of the fun out of it but we are not going to redo it unless we have no choice. Sorry so long between posts and thanks for the interest!
Gayle