Take a look at Pawnee Buttes Seed: http://www.pawneebuttesseed.com/ . They are in Colorodo, so maybe you won't have to pay for shipping if they are close enough to you.

any ideas which one would work better in my situation for dormant seeding? would mix of two work?

I have no experience with native grasses, but hopefully bpgreen will be along shortly to offer some advice. He has experience with the types of grass you are considering.

Streambank wheatgrass is probably not the best option for sandy soil. It's closely related to thickspike wheatgrass (in fact, there's some dispute whether they're really different species or different cultivars). Thickspike wheatgrass does better in sandy soil than streambank.

If you won't water at all, thickspike wheatgrass will probably be dormant from mid to late July until the monsoon showers start (if they start).

If you go with Buffalo grass, it will be dormant from about early October until mid May. Buffalo grass can also cause problems for people with allergies (if you choose seeded varieties; sodded or pluggged varieties don't have that problem). But it will stay green all summer with no water (brown in late fall winter and early spring).

Blue grama is another option. It has a longer green time than buffalo grass, but similar summer water needs. I've seen patches of wild blue grama that were green at the end of summer (without irrigation). The drawback to blue grama is that it doesn't spread much. It will spread a bit if it is mowed, or if it isn't mowed, the seeds will help, but it is considered a bunch grass.

Western wheatgrass is another option. It will stay green longer than streambank wheatgrass, but in prolonged drought, it's more likely to die. It's also harder to establish.

I really like blue grama, but haven't dormant seeded it yet (that's coming this fall/winter).

Here is where I bought my blue grama seeds for my dormant seeding. I also bought some extra so I can overseed in the summer if I'll be home enough to keep the seed damp. You can't buy online from their website, but they've got great customer service and will help over the phone or via email.

You can mix warm season and cool season grasses, but you can end up with a patchy look, since the warm season grasses will go dormant in the winter and the cool season grasses will go dormant in the summer.

Blue grama is a warm season grass, but it stays green later in the fall and turns green earlier in the spring than buffalo grass, so the difference between it and cool season grasses isn't as noticeable. It's relatively close in color to streambank/thickspike wheatgrass when they're both green, so that would be a plus, also.

thanks bp, i am still leaning towards buffalo grass, or maybe mixture of buffalo and blue gramma. any idea when is the best time to dormant seed? i have seen somewhere that you should seed before first frost. is that true? how much seed would i need for dormant seeding of both grasses?
any particular variety of each that you would recommend?

You said you cannot have sprinklers there, but it doesnt say you can not irrigate. Do what I did, put my sprinklers 15' from the road so they irrigate that section and continue your lawn to the road with the same grass as the rest of your yard.

-Bill

i thought about this but i already have thujas planted there so they are in the way of sprinklers. i would have to add couple more heads which i dont want to do really. also i wouldnt get very good coverage only having sprinkler heads on one side. i am ok with different grass there, just need to know the right way to proceed.

Buffalo grass and blue grama are often planted together and they are present together in many natural prairie settings, so if you're okay with a fairly late spring greenup and fairly early fall dormancy, they'd be a good choice. In an area with no irrigation, that's probably the best option for green during the summer.

I've never seeded any buffalo grass (I've got allergies, so if I went with buffalo grass, I'd use plugs to get the female only varieties).

I'm going to be doing a dormant seeding of blue grama in my hellstrips this year. I actually bought twice as much seed as I plan to use. The reason for that is that I'm not sure whether the dormant seeding will work (it works great for cool season natives, but I've never done it with a warm season grass). So I want the option of seeding again next summer. Since I'm doing this in such a small part of the lawn, I'll be able to hand water.

My approach to dormant seeding is to wait until just before the first good snow storm. I was out last year spreading seed while it was snowing. The main thing is that you want to make sure it's cold enough that the seeds won't start to germinate this year but will wait until spring.

I found one article that recommends against dormant seeding buffalo grass.

I'll have to find seeding rates. If you call Southwest Seed (970-565-8722) and explain whet you're doing, they'd be better able to answer you on that.

I haven't read much about buffalo grass in a long time because I dismissed it as an option for my lawn, but I started reading up on it again as a result of this thread and I think I'd advise against it in your case. I think that you'll be happier with blue grama than with buffalo grass. Buffalo grass does better with heavier/clay soils than with sand. Blue grama does well in both.

If you want to mix in another grass, I'd go with western wheatgrass. It's a cool season grass, but it likes things a little warmer than streambank or thickspike, so it'll blend better with blue grama.

You will want to spread these seeds separately. Blue grama seeds are like dust. Buffalo grass seeds are almost as big as peas. wheatgrass seeds are about the size of wheat kernels.

I don't have any suggestions for buffalo grass varieties. For blue grama, I think I'd go with Hachita or Alma (but ask when you call). I think your best bets for western wheatgrass would be Arriba or Rosana, but ask at SW seeds to be sure.

thanks again bp, i think i will go with your recommendation of grama and western than.

I looked into seeding rates for blue grama and they're all over the place. I saw anything from 1 lb per 4000 sq ft to 3-5 lbs per 1000 sq ft. I would ask for rates when you order the seed. Also ask about rates for western wheatgrass. I think I used about 2-4 lbs per 1000 sq ft.

BP, speaking of blue grama, I took this picture with my cell phone in mid August in Western Wyoming in what I guess would be considered a high desert area. The area probably had very little rainfall all summer.
This area was bone dry and the blue grama was growing in patches still green, while all other vegetation was brown, dried up and burnt to a crisp.
If one could get an improved cultivar of this grass established as a full cover turf, you would be watering it very little, while feeding it organics.
The only downside, maybe, would be a short growing season in the Northern U.S.
{{gwi:120746}}

That's pretty close to what I saw growing by the side of the road a year or two ago around the same time of year. It's pretty easy to identify grama if it goes to seed (eyelash grass is another name for it).

I do like it, but as you pointed out, it's got a shorter growing season than cool season grasses.

There are some improved varieties, but they don't spread like KBG, so if you use it as a lawn grass, you'll probably either need to mix it with something else or periodically overseed (although it is supposed to spread some if it is mowed regularly and is also rumored to spread more at higher elevations),

got the seeds today. actually got twice the amount i need, so i can reseed if i need to, same as bp. cant wait to see the result in spring. now waiting for a snow storm.

Where did you order?

What did you order (which varieties, too, please)?

Did you ask about seeding rates? If so, what did they say?

i ordered from pawnee buttes, as suggested by tiemco.
i ordered grama hachita (they were out off alma) and western arriba. they told me 3 pounds for both for 1000sf. i ordered double the amount i need, just to make sure.

Thanks for the info.

Please keep us posted next spring/summer and let us know how it came in.

I've got Hachita for my hellstrip. I think I've only used Rosana, but I may have used Arriba.

For an area in the intermountain west that has no irrigation, even for seeding, I think you've got the best combination to get something that looks decent most of the time. As a word of warning, native lawns are a lot slower to establish. I've read that the first year they grow down (roots), the second year, they grow up (leaves) and the third year they grow out (any spreading that may occur).

If you're planning to mow it, it may grow slowly enough next year that you won't need to mow it. If you do mow, mow fairly high (I mow at the highest setting). Most native grasses do best if you let them get somewhat tall. Mowing a little shorter may help spreading initially, but I wouldn't go too low (maybe 3 inches or so) unless you're going to do another round of seeding.

If you seed again next year, the western wheatgrass should be seeded in the late spring. The blue grama should probably be seeded later, but you could probably compromise and seed late spring/early summer if you will be able to water for a little while.

I WILL. THANKS FOR YOUR HELP BP