It seems everyone's rudeness sensitivity has a different adjustment. If you want to see rude, flip on over to the Soils forum or the Organic Gardening forum where it is too common to gang up on one member and flat out call him stupid in so many words. On the corn gluten meal thread which ZS started a week or so ago, he said I had accused him of something but he would ignore it because he wanted to remain positive. I put the following into a message. Can anyone help me see where I might have made an accusation and one that had a negative note to it? Then ZS replied with the following Dchall_san_antonio wrote: > In real life it is rare to find someone who has had a good experience with CGM as a preemergent. I'm not sure if he was ignoring my request or replying to it. If anyone would care to help, please send me an email through my member page. I don't see it. It seems to me that ZS is egging us on by posting quotes that fly in the face of what has become common knowledge. When we try to explain either what is wrong with the quote or where the quote left off vital information or where the source quote was taken out of context, then the tone of the messages changes for the worse. To me it is clear who threw the first punch on this thread. Tiemco asked some questions and ZS bit his head off. I offered some clarification and got my head bit off. ZS if you prefer to read books and do not like to read what we have to say in this forum, then why are you here? I'm not saying there is no reason to be here, I'm simply asking why you are here? Are you here to offer us the benefit of what you have read? If that is the case then we will respond completely differently. Most people come here to find out if what they have read holds water. We have made that assumption with you. If we have been giving you advice when you were not looking for it, then that might be the root of the antagonism. Giving unwanted advice is considered rude to a lot of folks. Please let us know. You can establish your credentials based on what you read outside the forums and we'll leave it alone. I might add that disagreeable messages are one reason that forums lose membership. I've seen some really great people leave this forum simply because of one or two members who pestered them mercilessly. If you would not like to receive our thoughts and comments on your threads, it is easy enough to make that happen. Since I seem to be a catalyst for you, ZS, and since I don't see where my remarks are setting you off, then I'll stop replying with these thoughts and let you go.

Soil temperatures for optimal germination should be between 50 and 70 degrees for cool season grasses. Seed does not germinate at all well if the seed is planted deeper than 1/4 inch deep. As seeds are so near the surface, soil tempertures at the surface are closely related to the air temperatures. Recommended air temperatures for germination of cool season grasses varies from 60-85 degrees--KBG being at the low end and TTTF being able to germinate up into the higher temp. range. Cool season grasses take between 1 and 4 weeks to germinate. Seedlings need to then develope a root system and time to to get to the stage where they can store carbohydrates in order to survive freezing temperatures and winter dormancy. So seeding now will be a real crap shoot. Dormant seeding is the second best process for lawn establishment. Seeding is done after temperatures fall (and will not rise until Spring) below the temperatures needed to induce germination (e.g. below 40) Usually sometime after Thanksgiving.

IT DOESN'T STAND A CHANCE IN H**L TO DO ANYTHING BUT SIT---AND PROBABLY DIE FROM CONTINUED FREEZE/THAW CYCLES. its continually fascinating that people associate growth with air temperature when wanting to see growth happen. if only our plants grew in air---we would be inundated with foliage and having to hack through it as thought we were in a jungle environment. Plants grow in the soil...not the air---and its the soil temperature that encourages plants to grow, roots to grow, leaves to grow---with the assistance of what's in the air---nitrogen, and what's in the soil...potash and phosphorus. Air temperature, of course, enters the picture, but only as it is the correct temperature that assists growth. Too hot....plants slow down; too cold, plants slow down. Spring----be it ever so wonderful to think about--is what we all look forward to because it is soon the sunlight has such an effect on SOIL TEMPERATURES. Sometimes we see mention that grass seed was sown late in the season and has it a chance of germinating. That is the 64000 dollar question---if conditions continue warranting high enough soil temperature to encourage some germination, then it might happen....but....if such conditions cause germination to occur....then a freeze comes along, then the chances of that germination not ever seeing the light of day. Other seed might sit and wait for optimum temperature of soil to begin the process and if continued long enough, then it might germinate early....and get strong enough to stand up to continued frosts. Otherwise, its much better to save your time, effort, and probably money, and wait until spring to sow that grass seed. By the way....spreading 1/2" - 1" of soil/compost/topsoil....over your lawn EVERY early spring, can only do it justice. If the soil has high enough organic matter in it, then you have given your lawn what it craves. Do this, not because you think it needs it, but because it is the best thing you can do for your lawn's continued good health.

Eveything I have read about Bermuda Grass says it spreads by stolens, rhizomes, and seeds. As long as the grass clippings from your Bermuda Grass does not contain any seeds, stolens, or rhizomes they should be a good material to use for mulch or composting. I would doubt that Bermuda Grass clippings would germinate anymore then would Kentucky Blue Grass clippings.