Right now is the best time to spread compost on your planting beds and to feed your lawn. The more prep work you can get done in the fall the less you will need to do next spring.

Kimmsr..won't the nutrients in the compost be further broken down and somewhat wasted by spring? I thought compost that was ready to be added to a bed is ready to provide the nutrients when you spread it, so why wouldn't it be more needed in spring than fall?

No. The Soil Food Web will work on the compost you spread and get it into the soils structure where it will be available to the plants next spring. If you spread the compost next spring what is in that compost will not be available for the plants until next fall. It takes time for the nutrients in compost to become available since they are not readily available.

That is good to know...timing is everything sometimes, isn't it? Thanks Kimmsr, this will change my thinking and make a difference for me I am sure. :-)

Kim...someone recommended a local dairy farm that sells composted cow manure for $35. a yard. I was considering having some delivered and adding that to my beds. I am wondering if that is the best idea? It seems expensive unless it is really adding a lot to my soil. I asked and they said it is straight cow manure mixed in with wood shavings and composted for a year in wind rows and then sifted to get the rocks out. My question is if a lot of the benefit is gone after sitting for a year and if I would be better off finding some other kind of compost with ingredients that might offer more fertility and soil activity? Any thoughts?

Thanks

Composted Manure is great. Perhaps a little pricey, I'm not sure what black cow goes for from the store nowdays.

The nutrients in manure are water soluble and can easily flow out of the pile and into the water supply creating pollution unless enough vegetative waste is added (a 3:1 ratio of veggie to manure) to suck up those nutrients. If a two cubic foot bag of manure sells for $1.75 that is around $23.00 per ton making that manure you are contemplating more expensive than the bagged manure in a store.
All around I would stop considering doing that.

I am very excited that all the great ideas everyone has been sharing with me on this topic all gelled when I was out in the yard preparing to extend an existing bed by about 16 feet by 6ft. Actually what really brought it all together, was that I had to break down an old cement block bed that I wasn't going to use any more and when I did, I discovered this great soil that was in it. Nice and dark and friable and lots of worms. I remembered that I had actually created that bed with lasagna methods. Chopped leaves and grass clippings etc. So here is what I ended up doing...

We used the contents of 2 black plastic composters that had yard waste in them. Pretty dry stuff. I realized I hadn't been watering them enough. 2 large leaf bags of old grass clippings, a 5 gallon bucket of wood shavings, a large leaf bag full of fresh grass clippings and some soil between layers. We built up the extended bed like a berm and topped it with more of that good soil from the broken down bed. It looks great already.

So, at least in that area I should have some nice soil next year. Now to get enough materials to do more of that in other areas of the yard. See that seems to be the trouble. I used just about half of all of our yard waste from the whole growing season just to make that one small bed.

Putting organic matter down in the fall is a good idea, but there is a caveat. The rate organic matter breaks down and releases nutrients is proportional to the soil temperature.

In the fall as the soil cools there won't be a whole lot of biological activity acting on it.

Some, but not nearly as much as the summer.

This isn't a problem at all UNLESS you have a water run off issue on your property.

Over the winter will the OM stay put or will the rain/snow melt wash it away?

Wow, kimmsr! $1.75 a bag? I wonder if the places in your area will deliver to CT, lol? Around here, you can expect to pay at least $3 a bag for good quality composted cow manure.

Informative thread! Thank you everyone!

Dee

justaguy...It should stay put fine. We have a level lot and the bed is in the back away from the street. It doesn't look like it is going anywhere. There is no where but lawn for it to go anyway.

Yes, I am sure the warmer the soil the faster it will break down. Actually, it seems we are much warmer than usual this year, like last year and I imagine the soil is warmer than it usually is this time of year. I am not expecting it to or needing it to be all broken down by spring at all. Eventually it will be better soil than it was to start, that's all I care about.

That is a good price, isn't it Dee. I don't usually check out bagged composted manure, I just don't think of it as having much value I guess. Aren't there a lot of bagged products on the market that are not quality?

I have been looking for alfalfa to add to my garden. I can never find any. I thought that might add some fertility.
How does that compare to composted cow manure?

Last year I cover cropped with Hairy Vetch for the first time in my veggie beds and I was impressed with how much it grew in the fall and how quickly and easily I could turn it into the soil and it broke down quickly too. I found the soil in those beds really improved after doing that and more earthworms too.

How does doing covercrops compare to lasagna layering or just adding compost? Of course, I am only doing that in the veggie beds and it is my shrub and perennial beds that I would like to improve the most. I can't see covercropping my perennial beds..lol.

pm2

PM2, can you give more info on how you did your cover crop? How big is your veggie bed? When did you sow? How did you turn it under and when?

I've been wanting to try a cover crop, but hesitate for several reasons. One, I use a lot of raised beds with sides (cinder blocks, wood, etc.) Two, Most of these gardens are going well into October, so it's kind of late to sow. Third, I have no machinery and don't know how hard it will be to turn under by hand. And it seems like, if I am not mistaken (and I may well be!) like so many recommended cover crops are also things that many people are trying to get rid of, so I hesitate to introduce them into my yard.

I did try some oats in a couple of my raised beds last year, since this was something that I read could be sown later. It germinated, but did not grow much, and on top of that, I didn't sow heavily enough, I guess.

I'd love to hear more detail on your experience, if you don't mind.

Thanks,
Dee

Dee, I don't mind at all.. :-)

First of all, I called Johnny's Seeds to ask them about it because they offer a number of cover crop seeds and I had all the same questions you do. I tried the Hairy Vetch for the first time last fall and it was late when I put it in. I tried this particular one, because I have raised beds and no machinery and I would be turning it under by hand. I also wanted something that would break down and not keep coming back on me.

Oh..wow...my new garden journal system just worked for me. I was able to pull up the file and find the date I sowed the hairy vetch in about 2 minutes..lol. It was October 6th of last year. I think they told me at Johnny's that if it germinated, it would make it through the winter and I could leave it to grow and then turn it under. Which is about what happened. I turned it under on May 26th. It broke down very quickly. As a matter of fact, I was getting a late start with my tomatoes but I put seedlings in those containers about 2 weeks later and they were great. It wasn't all the way broken down by then but it was fine. I could have turned it in earlier if I wanted to. I put some in large containers last year too and those I was able to turn over easily with a trowel.

This year, I was able to sow one raised bed that the string beans came out of by Sept 20th and it germinated in about a week I think and there is a good stand of it right now. I also waited on the rest of my beds because they still have tomatoes ripening in them. Pretty sure you could also sow some in the spring. I may still try to sow more in the tomatoe beds next week after I pull all the tomatoes out. May be too late for it to germinate, but just as an experiment I may try it. I will try to post a photo of my bed of hairy vetch for you.

I am hooked on using it now. I use most of my beds for tomatoes and they are always late coming out and I like to get an early start on them by planting by early to mid May. So I am not sure how I can do what I usually do yet. If it won't germinate this late, then I will try sowing it very early in the spring...March? And see if I can get enough growth and turned in by May 1st? I have my doubts though. I may have to do a couple of beds each year instead of all of them every year.

Hope that helps....pm2

Thanks for the response, pm2!

So, you sowed last year on October 6th. Hmm, we're already two weeks past that, and I'm not ready to sow yet... I wonder how late I can push it? I'm wondering if it will be warm through January here like it was last year, or if we will have a more normal season. Actually, now that I think of it, I do have at least one bed I can sow now - just have to get out to get some seed!

How did you turn it under? Did you use a shovel/spade? Or a hand trowel? Did you have any problem with the vetch coming back after turning it under?

Thanks!
:)
Dee

Dee...if I remember right, last year I was debating whether to go for it or wait until the next year. Especially since I couldn't find the seed locally so I had to order from Johnny's and wait for it. Last year was so unusually warm and I am wondering if this year will be a repeat.

I used a hand trowel in my large containers and a pitchfork in the larger raised beds. Very easy. The foliage is very fine. No I did not have even one sprout in the bed all summer.

I'll get you a photo of my bed tomorrow when the sun comes out. :-)
pm2

Dee,

I just found a pic of 2 of my containers with the Hairy Vetch growing in them on May 11th. You can see there was plenty of top growth and it could have easily been turned in at that point.

{{gwi:156841}}

Here is one of my raised vegetable beds today. The one that I sowed hairy vetch in, on September 20th.

{{gwi:156843}}

I also just sowed more in another raised bed exactly like this one today. I will let you know when it germinates.

pm2

Thanks so much, pm2! You've convinced me! I just put an order into Johnny's for some hairy vetch. It might be a bit late, but I won't get out to a garden center for over half a week anyway, and I'm hoping it's warm enough for awhile.

Thanks for your help!
:)
Dee

Your welcome Dee. :-)

I did want to say that even though I just sowed some today and plan to do another two beds in the next week, I do realize that I am risking the seed not germinating much this late if it suddenly turns cold. I am not sure if the seed would winter over and germinate in the spring or if I would have to buy more in the spring if that happened. I don't mind if that happens because it is information gained and then I won't have to guess in the future. I am definitely sold on the hairy vetch. After reading a few posts about problems people have had with winter rye coming back, I am sure glad I didn't use that. I had been thinking about it. Close call..phew! [g]

Hope your seeds arrive quickly for you. :-) pm2

Yes, I also realize I am taking a gamble in sowing this late, but I figure for a few bucks, I'll give it a shot. The worst that can happen is nothing - which would happen if I didn't try, right? If I get no or poor germination, I'll just spread some compost over the beds and try sowing in early spring. Not much to lose, and as you said, it is information gained.

I thank you again!
:)
Dee