i have come across one other article that suggested we try growing orchids in water

what does everyone else think?
i've been dying to grow vandas, but my air temp and humidity just cannot work :i would totally give this a try
prior to this post, i was thinking of setting up a tank of warm water and running a fogger or air wand to give off warm vapor/mist, then hanging vandas above that

I have the humidity and temp here in S>E. Louisiana but no luck making the vanda's grow at better than a snail's pace. This baby has taken off like a rocket. Possibly you could start with a baby and try. I have mine in a very sunny window and would even put it outside. Just want to keep a good look at it for a few.

Vandas in water are great. You don't have to water four times a day.

Old, tried-and-true method. :)

Stacy

Here is a link that might be useful: Venger's water culture

What are the too cold and too dry readings that are stopping you growing a "vanda". I'm trialling Rhynchocentrum Lilac Blossom indoors and the current reading with with sun shining on the plant are 19C, humidity 51%. The plant looks great. This plant was purchased from as nursery as cool tolerant.

I believe the water thing because i have another "Vanda" down the glasshouse which grew well when the roots located the glasshouse gutter. But it is typical of a lot of Vandas in that it is at least 10 years old and has never flowered. Some of them are very slow.

Stacy
I have to ask about some info on water growing. Its intriguing me. Read the link but it did not address a few things:

1) Do you fertilise the water? Superthrive? physan? If the water is not fertilised how do you fertilise?

2) Exactly how far up should the water go on the plant? roots-neck/leaves of plant?

3) I assume that it can go back in the same light?

Have a Vanda type that needs some recovery. Want to try it. Its beginning new root growth. Should the new roots be submerged? New roots high up on the plant, very close to the "crown". What is that part called on a Vanda?

I understand the theory behind no air, no rot. Just don't understand the fine details.

Thanks!
Clara

The ones that I have growing in water (the only way my mom can keep them alive) get the containers filled with 1/8 strength fertilizer. The dends, phals, and vandas go into the water right above where roots used to be or are.

With the vandas that I've done, I only put the bottom roots into a bucket. The arial roots you can try and train down as they grow, but there's really nothing to do after they've grown. The vanda I started without any bottom roots started putting both bottom and top roots out after putting it in water.

Stacy

Thanks Stacy
One last question ocurred to me. How is the rest period handled?

Same light in water I assume?

Clara

You can't really do water culture for a plant requiring a dry rest period. I don't know a lot about vandaceous, but I'm not aware of any that require a dry period or an actual 'rest' period.

Apparently, the rest period doesn't necessarily have to be a "dry" one. For example, in Semi-Hydroponics, folks keep watering, but don't use any fertilizer until they see the beginning of new growth.

this has sparked my imagination to try and take this one step further--do you think i could grow vandas at the top of a fish tank with tropical fish it in?

my thinking is like this--the aquarium water would have an appropriate amount of nutrients, and it is kept warm and airated (did i spell that right?). it also gets a weekly water change. so in theory, it would be suitable for growing vandas in, am i right?

It is doubtful that the water will have the sufficient quantities and balance of the nutrients needed by a vanda - they are hungry suckers - but assuming you've got sufficient light, why not give it a try?

elvinwei
That may not be the best idea. I just posted about fish and flower displays (oddest mounts post.) There has been a lot written particularly about Bettta fish and orchids residing together. Apparently they are sold together. I believe you may even be able to find posts about it on GW. Neither will likely flourish. How would you fetilise the orchid without hurting the animals?

Fish produce a lot of amonia. Many tropical fish cannot tolerate the light that an orchid needs, especially a vanda. Heat too. Can't remember all the details but when I read about, I found another alternative.

I tried to stick a lucky bamboo in with a fish, it was a disaster. Never looked clean. The fish hated it. Their tails got tangled in the roots. The alternative is to get the 1/2 bowls and combine fish & plants that way. I have 4 fish/flower displays in my office. Even in person, no one can really sort out how I build them

Clara

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:176365}}

Hi there. I am one that would not recommend it. Being that most fish eat plants/ algea as part of their diet. I know the crown itself would not be submerged but how about the roots? I think they would find them delicious. Especially with that beautiful green color they turn when they're wet. Cool idea but really, try to resist. Good luck.

Barbie

Why am I not seeing the same results? I'm doing this outdoors in some extra good light.

Clara

I would only submerge actively growing roots. Resting roots will rot.
-MB

Why would resting roots rot and active roots not? All roots would rot if that were the case. The simplified principle behind submersion is cutting off atmospheric Oxygen which avoids rot.

There is simply not sufficient Oxygen in standing water to make this happen. "O" molecules are scarce in water. They are constantly being released. Roots would need sufficient Oxygen to rot. Basic chemistry dictates, no "O", no rot. No "O" no growth either...

Clara

I am not very scientific but my vanda that I have put in water is growing beautiful on an East facing windowsill inside my home. Gets pleanty of morning sun and bright light the rest of the day. The roots that died I just cut off with sterile scissors. The big thick green roots just keep growing and growing. Anything that rots, I just cut it off. I have to keep adding water because of evaporation, but it is growing faster and more healthy than it was outside in a basket. It has only been less than three weeks, but I see significant growth. I have clear marbles under my vanda holding it at the height that is best.

mrbreeze is right about old roots rotting.

The old roots will probably rot, but it's easy to pull them off and new roots will be fine. Roots supposedly 'adapt' to whatever medium they are in, and the old roots don't know how to grow in water.

As for things not rotting in water, there are plenty of things that cause rot that don't need oxygen to live.

I would like to try this. I bought a couple of Vandas that are not in the best condition. Would it be possible to put them in water for a few months to get them perked-up and healthy and then remove them from the water permanently? Or must you continue on with the water culture once started?

thanks,

elizbeth

Re Clara - maybe some anaerobic bacteria are involved, but I've definitely seen stuff rot in oxygen-less environments :S

Actually I'm a believer that anything healthy will have a much better chance of fending off rot...things that are alive generally don't spontaneously rot. So if the other culture conditions are not ideal, then this method will probably not work too well. If on the other hand all other variables are perfect, the constant moisture would probably not be sufficient to start rot!

There is O. in water H20. There is Oxygen in water or it would not be water. Just in very small quantities. Orchids need Oxygen at the roots. More than water can provide. Anaerobic bacterial will only add to the depletion. It may also cause other problems. I am thinking that this a short term growth method??

Then there is a question of wet/dry cycle. Every orchid needs one, some more mild than others. (Meaning dry can be moist) This method does not account for that. I tried this on 4 plants. Believe me, wanted it to work, just don't see the same results as the O.P. The plants are outdoors. Can't get any better conditions than that up this way.

Clara

Actually, Clara, there's a heck of a lot of O in H2O. The 'weight' of O is ~15.994, in comparison to H at ~1.0079. There are two H atoms to each O atom, but the majority of the 'weight' of water is O.

When people talk about O in water, they're actually referring to O2, or gaseous oxygen.

Anaerobic activity refers to metabolism WITHOUT oxygen. In fact, some anaerobic bacteria/fungi produce oxygen as a WASTE product, therefore adding to the amount of O2.

Plants don't 'need' a wet/dry cycle, at all. I've grown dends and phals in water (ones not needing a 'dry' rest) for over five years, and they bloom reliably, grow well, and have had no problems.

There's a Prescott, Harley, Klein microbiology that's pretty good. Might want to check it out. You can also find a sufficient discussion of the 'miracle of water' in just about any undergrad chem or biology book.

Stacy

I will add to this...

The roots that grow into sphag or bark or attach to trees in the wild DO need a wet/dry cycle typically, but you cannot compare those roots to ones grown in water. When you switch a plant over to s/h, you MUST do it when the plant is in a period of active root growth..why? Because it is only the new roots that are capable of adapting to new conditions. They will grow slightly different tissues or thicknesses of tissues to suit the medium they're growing into whether it is moss or bark or water or clay pellets.

Have you ever noticed how sometimes you see white fleshy roots deep in a pot compared to the papery, greyish, aerial roots? Also, they do need air at the roots but not to absorb it, they need it to provide that drying out. The O2 they absorb comes in through the stoma under the leaves, in general.
-MB

Because of this: "I have moved my slow growing Vanda into water and it is growing like the weeds in my flower bed. It has been less than a week and the roots look WONDERFUL and is even putting on a new leaf..." we come to this: "I would like to try this. I bought a couple of Vandas that are not in the best condition. Would it be possible to put them in water for a few months to get them perked-up and healthy and then remove them from..." It's deep breath time friends. Whether or not you accept that water culture can be done successfully it is not IMO reasonable to believe that it is somehow superior to conventional culture and will help to recover a plant that is otherwise struggling! If you buy a lucky bamboo from the gift shop you are witnessing water culture. If you root an avacado pit in a tumbler you are witnessing water culture. If you strike an African Violet cutting in a Dixie cup of water... All of these bamboo, avocado and AV cutting could have been started in soil but water culture has seemed somehow easier to implement. In fact, it isn't the best thing for the plants but it isn't much worse than a passive hydroponic system with a very small particle and highly wickable media like horticultural perlite. Most of the problems with water culture stem from the fact that people do not fertilize nor do they change any of the water. There is a small number of people that believe that conventional roots can become 'water' roots but that water roots cannot become conventional roots. Not that it matters, the changeover period is massively stressful and some are wondering why it is neccessary to start cuttings or pits in water only to risk their collapse as the conventional roots grow in. Water culture is simply a somewhat more extreme form of semi-hydro and clearly S/H works and is a viable method of culture and it even has some unique advantages over conventional culture. However, these advantages are entirely for the grower. Plants in S/H have to work harder for everything and plants in water culture are even closer to that boundary between life and death. Using water culture to "perk up" and ailing plant is probably not terribly different in concept to the idea of using leeches on people with various debilitative illnesses. Whatever improvement in vigor and development was observed in the Vanda that started this discussion was entirely due to enviromental factors and have nothing whatsoever to do with being cultured in water.

H

In my experience though, I have seriously had stuff ROT in S/H during the winter...despite repotting when in active growth (in the spring). So this entire thing about roots that are actively growing rot less, I dunno..there's some truth in it....maybe when the plant is actively growing, it's immunity and ability to fend off infections is better?

I think there are some orchids that have natural dry/wet cycles (ie catasetums??)...while dends and phals generally don't in the WILD, the home environment in winter (at least my home..biggest problems are LIGHT and WARMTH...put next to window for optimum light = cool drafts, even with plastic lining etc...) does not favor growth, thus putting these normally non-resting plants into a sort of 'pseudo-rest' where growth is sluggish. Seriously, winters for me are merely periods where I ensure nothing dies too much before spring comes. No joke. (I'm too poor to invest in sodium halide lamps, and anyway my mom would totally freak if I installed one in the living room.)

Since this is obviously not what these plants are adapted for, I'm thinking that they are somewhat weakened during this phase...add cool and wet conditions, and you get a wonderful breeding ground for fungus and some cooler growing bacteria.

Anyway, I definitely agree about there being different kinds of roots...which IMO is in itself a problem.. Because on the one hand, you have a bunch of lovely water-roots that grew during the hot summer..on the other hand, you have a sluggishly growing plant that doesn't really appreciate the water much. As a result, if you withhold water, the water-roots shrivel and die setting the plant back. However, if you maintain the wet conditions you had during the summer, the water roots rot because of what I hypothesized above.

Anyway, I think experiences of S/H can be applied to this method of growing in pure water as well...I mainly use my S/H hydroton for improving drainage in my sphag-grown orchids now. It's working for one of my catts and thats it...my phals in S/H survived 2 years but have been going downhill, so I've repotted most to sphag and they are so much much happier. Every spring, I find that all those roots they formed during the previous summer have rotted away...maybe I'm watering too much in winter..who knows. I like to stick to what works best. I guess this method would be useful if you had all your other conditions in good shape, for the entire year. And if you're in the northern latitudes, unless you operate a fan, a heater, a humidifier and several artificial lights (ie have a GREENHOUSE), I really doubt this method would be successful.

leubafr, could you please post some photos of your setup ?
Thank you

I want to see this plant flower. Growing by this method you will get plenty of leaf growth but I doubt if it will spike. I think you will have to take it out of the water periodically if you want flowers.

I do not know if this plant will flower any time soon because it is a baby. I will post a pic asap.

I have two baby vandas growing in water-I haven't fertlized yet, and so far I have wonderful new green roots. After further reading, I'm moving it to a more sunny spot, and fert at a low rate. Also changing water sometimes instead of just adding. Thanks for this post, and the link-this is easy. How is your vanda doing now? Still growing? Blooming? Thanks for the info and idea! CJ