I have! I got the idea after watching My Big Fat Greek Wedding. It works pretty well, although I've started using 70% ethanol instead, which is less harmful because it evaporates to nothingness within minutes, but does the job quickly. When I used windex I tried to make sure none got into the soil - not sure what chemicals are in it that are harmful for the plant.

Windex works because it's probably mostly alcohol and ammonia, which is nitrogen.

This post made my day:

1.) I am Greek and stereotypically use Windex on everything (as well as lemon juice, Ouzo, and olive oil).

2.) Yuppie Larvae: classic, I need to write that down

In reality Neem isn't toxic, it keeps my (future) Indian in-laws alive and healthy as horses. I just killed some aphids on a citrus with a neem capsule and a shot of ouzo(for me).

I can't claim original thought for either Windex or Yuppie Larva. The Windex idea came from 'My Big Fat Greek Wedding', Dan Akerod and Co called ungrateful little kids 'Yuppie Larva' in 'Ghost Busters 2'.

Nick

Just put your concoction in a Windex bottle and add some blue food coloring, eh?

Too sharp mrbreeze!

:)))))))))))))))))))

You all are hilarious!

Ever since My Big Fat Greek Wedding, I have used Windex to knock down any flies that have the misfortune to sneak into the house. Then I scoop them up into a tissue and twisty-tie them into a plastic baggie. It sure beats splattering their innards all over my windows or walls (Urghh!) or keeping a filthy flyswatter around (double urghh).

To answer your question, Nick, I have wondered whether or not it would hurt the orchids, but have never had occasion to try it.

Sweetcicely

Putting flies in twisty-tied plastic bags takes the cake! I like to splatter their innards, keeps the ants fed. If you clean all that up, what are ants supposed to eat?

Nick

...except the ammonia in the Windex is likely more toxic than anything in your home made mix. The only thing I could think your daugher would find even remotely questionable in the mix is the neem oil, and while it doesn't smell all that great (not that ammonia smells any better) a quick search on the internet for your daughter will show that people have been using it as a home remedy for many ailments for thousands of years (ringworm and psoriasis to name a couple). I've even heard of people taking it internally.

Not that I have any problem with hitting bugs with house hold cleaners :) I had a wasp infestation in my bedroom a few years back and found that a hit with Tilex (the one that removes soaps scum) killed them dead faster than anything I could find.

Tyler

ttkidd

You are assuming my daughter approaches this from a logical and reasonable stand point. Logic and reason have nothing to do with her objection. This is purely an emotional response incubated in her estrogen saturated adipose tissue. If it kills bugs it might cause her little darlings to loose their hair, peel of their skin, cause their bone marrow to go South or make their sweet little testicles shrivel up to the size of raisins. If I brought my nuclear option bug spray into their presence she would get full Bio-Chemical suits for them.

The Windex she buys is 'Amonia Free'. Everything in that house is organic and natural. Their Vit C is made from compressed Rose hips grown with imported Tibetian Yak manure not in a chemical factory where it might get contaminated with Napalm residue!!

The plant seems to be thriving on it and it does not affect the flowers either.

Nick

PS She really is a good mother and raises very nice kids. She just freaks out over normal things like the 10 month old baby chewing on a small dog turd he found in the backyard. He did not like it very much so I think the danger is passed, he won't try it again. After his super clean upbringing so far, I'm sure the experience boosted his immune system. All is well.

lol :) no arguing with a mom who has young children I guess. Must be a new thing though because I remember being encouraged to go make mud pies and play in the dirt...so long as I didn't trample it into her house afterwards. There was a hose outside to wash myself off first.

Tyler

"Their Vit C is made from compressed Rose hips grown with imported Tibetian Yak manure not in a chemical factory where it might get contaminated with Napalm residue!!"

AMAZING

Nick your post was hilarious I think I just gave myself a hernia laughing!

:))))))))))))))))))

I'm fa.ha.ha.lling outta my chair! Was that a small dog...or a small turd...or a small turd from a small dog ~ ? I'm sure the details made no difference to your daughter, I just want to be accurate here.

(Reminds me of the day I bounced in to welcome my chortling 10 month old up from her nap, only to find her joyously finger painting the wall above her crib with mixed media from her diaper!!)

I also use Windex without ammonia--not to be organic (though ammonia must be organic...no?) I get the plain stuff because ammonia reacts with metals.

Tyler, if I used Tilex on wasps the California use and labelling police would drag me in for attitude adjustment and reprogramming in no time flat.

Sweetcicely

lol :) I'm suddenly not so sure I want children...

...as for the "use and labelling police", just let them sleep in a dark room knowing there are about 50 wasps sharing the space with them. They'll come around to your point of view soon enough. :P

Tyler

ammonia's organic based just like people(amongst other things). interestingly i have no stories of my own other then accounts of me being a true blight upon the world.

oddly on another tangent all though i try to steer clear of military grade cleaners I do like the smell of certain acrylic and poly vinyl esters.. which is probably why I adore Cycnoches as much as i do..

btw. whats with ruining this generations immune systems with sterile atmospheres and high dosages of anti bios?

Ammonia is technically "organic" depending on how it's produced, and it is relatively non-toxic in small quantities. That said, I work in a lab where we use tanks of the ultra purified stuff. About a year ago we had a tank leak, and I have to say I haven't experienced that much eye/mouth/resperatory "discomfort" since I, and a restaurant full of other folks, were accidentally pepper sprayed.

Tyler

Ouch!~ That's what I thought. Ammonia is organic, just as the cyanide in peach pits, the strychnine in yellow star thistle, and the lye solution from wet ashes are organic. Even home laundry grade ammonia can burn the lining of one's nose/throat/lungs if inhaled undiluted or at close range.

Tyler, it is not outside the realm of possibility that the U/L police employ whatever the heck is effective--when no one is looking

Ooo-no, LV, that other stuff dissolves gray matter. I have to agree about the unhealthfulness of raising kids in a clean-room environment. My mom, who was an excellent housekeeper, nevertheless maintained that it was of utmost importance to teach a child, early on, how to lick his fingers.

The great pity is that my mom, who had green thumbs and fingers, never tried to grow orchids. She always thought (as I did, before finding this delightful forum) that one had to have a greenhouse to grow them. Too sad!

Sc

Where to start????? My Dad often came home with Ivory soap and toilet paper, whether we needed it or not. DH comes home with Windex and various variants - Seventh Generation Natural Glass & Surface Cleaner "(non-toxic, no fumes, hypo-allergenic) and free & clear of perfumes and dyes."

Also Earth Friendly Window Kleener "with vinegar (non-filming, non-streaking, dust resistant). This product does not contain phosphates, dyes or perfumes. Because natural ingredients are used, color and body may vary."

It's not that he cleans glass that often...

One of DH's sisters had her first baby in her mid-30s. She's always been a worrier - freaked out when we were walking the dogs because there was some raccoon poop just off the trail. During her hyperventilation, we learned that raccoon poop could wipe out Iowa and the northern half of Missouri if one of the dogs' paws touched it.

Well, when DH and I went to see the first offspring unit, we practically had to scrub for surgery in advance, and even then, you could tell she didn't really want us to touch bubble boy. Made me want to sprinkle dirt in his cradle.

But as few anti-biotics as possible, thank goodness.

They had a big, goofy Flat-Coated Retriever - house dog. This poor woman had read that contact with dogs early in life can increase susceptibility to allergies later on. She was so vigilant that dog and child were never within 6' of each other.

Maaaaybe she would have allowed the water/dish soap/alcohol bug spray. Maybe not.

Bradarmi, do your future in-laws ingest Neem oil? If so, how does that work? If East Indians have been using the stuff for 3000-5000 years, something must be working.

Sweet Cicely, did you ever watch Phil Hartman as The Anal-Retentive Chef on Saturday Night Live? He could never actually cook anything because he could never get the celery chopped perfectly uniformly, for example, and then could never get the imperfect pieces packaged perfectly to put in the trash. Reminds me of your dead flies in the plastic bags.

Good to know about Windex and flies and Tilex and wasps. Our flyswatter lives in a plastic bag. :)

Whitecat8

This is the most hilarious thread I've read in a long time in any part of the Garden Forum.
I heard about using 409 for orchid problems but I'm sure this would be unacceptable as well.
Two of my grandkids are raised in a sterile environment. The other three are raised in dirt. Guess which ones are excelling in school.

My usual lotion is 1 part 409, 1 part alcohol and 8 parts water. Works pretty well even on scale. I'm sure it does not do a lot of harm to adult scale but nukes the emerging young ones. If you use it 3 days apart times 3 it gets rid of most infestations.

There is an interesting story behind 'Sterile Environment'. Humans have lived in the dirt with nature for 1 to 200,000 years. This includes having intestinal worms. The worms apparently latch on to the intestinal wall and then secrete a substance which depresses the immune system and gives them a better chance to survive against the body's defense mechanism. Modern man is devoid of worms but gets stuff like Krohn's disease which is a real bear. Its also an auto immune disease where the body's own immune system causes harm. They found that by ingesting eggs of intestinal parasites in some cases the Krohn's disease improved. The theory is that the worms secreted their magic potion and depressed the immune system giving the intestine a chance to recover. My daughter is a family physician but when I showed her the "Worm" site, her toes curled up like the feet of Chinese noble women.

Lots of interesting info can be found under 'Helminthic therapy'.

Another one is the use of Maggots to treat infected gangrenous tissue where the demarcation between living and dead tissue is not clear. The maggots will only eat dead tissue and clean up a wound like that in no time. This is no joke, Maggots are still used on very rare occasions. They do absolutely no harm to the patient.

My kids grew up without vitamins and tap water was the drink of the day. Oh well, the only certain thing to expect for sure is CHANGE.

Nick

Nick thanks for the 409 idea, my Gardenia's can use some- hope it will kill the aphids on them.
You mean Crohn's disease- it is interesting there is rise in incidence of inflammatory bowel disease, including Crohn's in the third world countries- is it because their lifestyle and diet is changing- no one knows. But def worm theory is interesting.
Change and Chope are good things!!

Nick, I knew about the maggot thing but not about worms. A friend suffers - is there a stronger word? - from Krohn's, and I'm passing this along to her.

Do you find that the 409/alcohol/water potion does better for some nasties than an alcohol/cooking oil/dish soap/water concoction?

There's research that indicates that people who are less aware of all the dietary dangers out there and who eat pretty much what they want are healthier AND happier than those who make sure their organic-to-the-max, stone-ground, pure water-processed, fair-trade Golden flax seed hasn't been within 10 miles of a plant where they process non-free range chickens who have been caged all their lives and fed antibiotics and growth hormones in their nasty, non-organic feed.

My mom cooked everything from scratch, so maybe we avoided a few chemicals, but we also caught many of our pets out in the country - lizards, turtles, snakes, minnows, lightning bugs, craw-dads, salamanders... Everything that escaped in the house always found its way to her side of my parents' bed, and we could never bring home the snakes, but these critters had to be dirty, esp. because we also brought home some of their natural environment which we kept till the water had scum on the top and the vegetation was covered with mold. The critters' cages were always in our bedrooms....

Just remembered - our cousins up the street always had allergies, talked about them a lot, couldn't do this or eat that or go there because of them, and detailed the numerous remedies they'd tried - in vain.

My Dad thought allergies were all in your head. He and my Mom always proclaimed, "WE don't have allergies." No telling what kind of mind/body dynamic got going there, but my parents and their 3 daughters had no allergies. :)

Hmmm - is it possible to protect our orchids from some dirt and germs that actually would be beneficial to them?

WC8

We carry about 100.000 different types of bacteria, viruses and other critters on our bodies all the time without harm acording to a recent article in the LA Times. Then there are some like HIV, Ebola or the 'Flesh Eating Strept' (Necrotizing Fasciitis) that do us tremendous harm.

I'm sure orchids are no different and carry all kinds of critters we are not aware off. The trick is to eliminate those that are harmful. I know for a fact that all of my orchids are virused as are everybody elses. Meaning that they carry some viruses we are not aware off and that do them no harm. Then there are the three big ones that cause harm with deterioration, leaf damage and flower color breaks. These we must guard against and destroy plants that have them or at least move them away from the collection.

So the trick is not to be free of bugs, bacteria or viruses but to avoid those that are truly harmful and not freaking out about the vast horde that lives on and with us without ever harming us.

Super clean behavior only modifies the teeming mass of critters that calls our bodies home but in no way eliminates them. Probably of some benefit but not necessarily so and there may be some unintended side effects.

I doubt my daughter is doing her kids any real harm with the sterile upbringing but I'm convinced she is doing them much less good than she imagines. They would probably be healthier growing up on a farm more in contact with nature as we have been over the millenias of human evolution.

Nick

So why are you folks buying Windex? Haven't you heard? The economy is in the toilet! We're all POOR!!

Make your own: 1/2 cup ammonia, 1 pint alcohol - pour into 1 gallon container and fill with water. I think it works better than Windex, but it doesn't have the blue tint if that's important to you. I personally HATE the blue, since it stains. Years ago I dripped a drop of Windex on a tan leather chair and didn't see it right away. There's still a blue spot.

Kevin

Kevin - This gal ain't springing for Windex for the orchids.

Where do you get ammonia? Do you think your mix is more effective against bugs than alcohol/cooking oil, dish soap/water? WC8

Where do I get ammonia??? My Lord girl, where have you been hiding?? You can buy jugs of the stuff at any grocery store for cheap. It's the only thing I use for cleaning my floors. (I also kind of get off on the fumes, but don't ever mix it with bleach.Those fumes kind knock you out cold.) Did you also know ammonia mixed with water is a great thing to pour into your compost pile? The added nitrogen really gets things to heat up quick.

I've never used this on bugs. It's only for glass cleaning.

"ammonia??? My Lord girl, where have you been hiding?? You can buy jugs of the stuff at any grocery store for cheap. It's the only thing I use for cleaning my floors. (I also kind of get off on the fumes, but don't ever mix it with bleach.Those fumes kind knock you out cold.)

....mixing bleach and ammonia can kill you. The nitty-gritty details of the chemical reaction aren't important, but the end result is a release of chlorine gas. Chlorine gas is so dangerous, it was used as a chemical warfare agent in World War I.

Good Luck!

--Stitz--

Good Luck?

Why on earth would you say that? I said NOT to mix it with bleach.

WC8, you may have had my parents in a parallel universe. My father's declaration that there were No Allergies in our Family reverberated with the sound of a moral law. I think we didn't dare.

You can find ammonia in the laundry section of the grocery store, usually (and ironically) right next to the bleach. It is useful stuff (great grease cutter), and half a gallon will last a very long time. Just a word of caution: in addition to not mixing it with anything containing chlorine bleach, also be aware that it is reactive with iron and certain other metals. Reading the label will tell you more than I can.

I'm inclined to agree with Nick and the notion that too much coddling or casual use of strong remedies on either children or orchids can weaken their natural defenses. Since my collection is still quite small (15 orchids--8 species or hybrids) it doesn't serve as a good statistic, but so far, I haven't had to use anything but water, mildly soapy water, alcohol, or peroxide on any of the plants.

Sweetcicely

Kevin, I know, I know... sheltered Southern girl here. Didn't even say a "cuss word" till I went off to college, and didn't have any alcohol - ingestible - till I was a junior.

SC, did your parents share any of these prohibitions w/ my folks?

I'll check out the ammonia, and thanks for all the cautions, esp. yours, Stitz.

Kev, what proportions of water and ammonia for the compost pile? Ours just kind of sits there, not composting. Also, what proportions for floor cleaning?

And this means DH will have another bottle of window cleaner in his arsenal.

On the clean freak front, just ran into this yesterday:

In Papau New Guinea, Immunologist David Pritchard observed that the natives who had more parasitic infestation did not suffer as much from autoimmune related ills.

PritchardâÂÂs findings supported the Hygiene Hypothesis - one explanation for the rise in modern day autoimmune conditions. The most current thinking of HH suggests that as modern medicine and our health status improve, former antagonists like parasites and symbiotic bacteria aren't getting a fair shake at programming our immune systems. These organisms activate important regulatory cells in the immune system called Regulatory T Cells. In other words, our bodies aren't adapting to our improved living conditions because humans are designed to fight health challenges that often don't exist anymore. Our Regulatory T Cell functioning is off kilter.

You gotta know that this same guy spent a bit of time w/ pinworms crawling around on his skin in hopes they'd burrow into his innards and advance his findings. The article doesn't report the results.

This was mentioned in an article on a related topic, and I've verified none of the info.

Nick, your daughter would probably be overcome by a case of the vapors if you told her this.

WC8

Wc8, aren't we paying to eat bacteria these days- I am talking about probiotics, esp after a course of oral antibiotics. Agree with you on the Autoiimune theory.
Nick, Flesh eating bacteria- Strep -eeewwww...

Looks like we are coming full circle. Right now there is a multi Billion dollar industry selling us bottled water which offers no advantage over the tap water which is also purified at the cost of God knows what.

If the "Kick the T-cells into gear" theory grabs hold we'll see a new multi billion Dollar industry emerge which will sell us bottled parasites, bacteria and crushed insects. I can just see the advertising, "Our parasites are superior ass kickers" while Beyoce is wiggling on the floor in next to nothing. At least that's something one can look forward to. Crocodile Dundee was right when he said to Kowalski "It tasted like sh-- but you can live on it".

So we'll spend Billions for a sterile environment and then Billions to reintroduce necessary critters. That's capitalism at work. Next come the lawyers trying to figure out Billion dollar class action suits in relation to all of this. When when it all crashes down because mothers realize that allowing their babies to chew on dog turds does the same thing, come the federal bailouts.

Nick

WC - For floor cleaing - maybe 1/2 cup in a half bucket of water. I just kind of dump some in. Also wear rubber gloves. It's kind of bad on the hands. You can also add it to your washing machine along with your detergent (no bleach though).

Also don't use on aluminum - it discolors it.

Compost - I really don't know. I usually just dump the water from my floor washing bucket into the compost pile. There are lots of reasons why a compost pile doesn't heat, but I've found the best way to get it decomposing again is to turn it. I usually empty my compost bins every week and then put it all back. By the next week, it usually decreases in volume by about 1/4 which mean stuff is happening in there.

Kevin, thanks for the ammonia mixes. I suspect DH hasn't been turning the pile often.

Sambac - not only probiotics, but digestive enzymes, too. And in this household, the dogs and cats get them too, 'cause they get raw meat, and their digestive systems have been domesticated, along w/ ours. Nowadays, if a dog catches and eats a wild rabbit, you gotta *worry* about parasites and stuff.

Along w/ antibiotics, I've always eaten plain yogurt - no sweeteners or flavoring, to keep the good bacteria going. Dunno if that's sufficient, but it's sure less expensive.

Nick, I love it! You've got it down pat. No doubt before the bailout, there'll be a market for dog turds from dogs that have been fed only organic kibble and meat, plus probiotics, digestive enzymes, supplemental vitamins and minerals, and Omegas 3 & 6. Except for the organic meat part, our dogs and cats are there. We've got big honkin' dogs, too, so lots of output. Maybe we should start freeze-drying it in anticipation...

Cat poop, of course, would be more expensive 'cause most domesticated cats are smaller so less output, plus being carnivores (except for the occasional mushroom and potato chip), their product is higher in protein.

Hmmm - for the orchids, I might mix in a little dog turd. People talk about adding cow pie... Oh, and one time in Hawaii, I stayed at a hotel run by Japanese folks, and they added human output to the water for their gorgeous plants. Think they could be on to something?

Great fun here - WC8

I live in Southern California which used to be and again almost is a part of Mexico. In the hispanic areas you'll see a basket right next to the toilet bowl usually full of waste paper not from washing your hands. I go to an auto repair shop where he has a sign that reads:

Amigos:
After you wash your ass, put the paper in the toilet, not the basket, this is not Mehico.

This stems from small rural villages who use human waste to fertilize their fields, along with the usual animal waste. In order not to have a mess of old toilet paper on their fields, they put the toilet paper in a waste basket.

As for supplementing orchids diet, I do that regularly with Horse Manure which I compost in a garbage barrel. I just put a little on top of the root ball and occasionally make 'Horsie Tea' which gets sprayed on them in lieu of fertilizer. When you are at my place watch out for brown rain.

A friend of mine was over the other day to get some plants and in the process of trimming something he gave himself a small superficial scratch. He went nuts asking me for Hydrogen Peroxide, Iodine and A and D lotion. I have all of the above somewhere but pretended I did not because this display of fear and horror over absolutely nothing was not only ridiculous but also amusing. I told him I could get the dogs to lick it but he declined. This guy is a perfect man living in an imperfect world.

I think your advice is good, I'll start saving dog turds, maybe one should also start a 'Dog Turd Board' (DTB) to regulate this new industry. I wonder if the Chinese could produce dog turds cheaper than us and ruin this new enterprise. I can see Al Gore being the president of the new DTB, so good for the environment and probably will have a beneficial impact on global warming. Until the public really gets into this, he can put them into his 'Lockbox'.

Nick

Well, as long as we're going down the road of indelicate topics, there was a very heated and interesting discussion on one of the other GW forums - can't remember which one - about using human urine in the compost pile. Once again - an excellent source of nitrogen to get things cooking. I can imagine folks reading this are going EEK! - EEK! - GERMS! - BACTERIA! - BAD! - BAD!, but if you do some Googling, you'll find this is a rather accepted practice. There are even some recommendations to use this as a garden fertilizer if diluted with water. About the only thing you have to be careful of is medications you might be taking since they would pass through your body.

No info to my knowledge about using this on orchids.

K

My father also insisted he did not have allergies as he considered them "a sign of weakness".

Re ammonia, I have a friend who works in horticulture who swears by it for fungus gnats - one capful to a gallon of water, drench the potted plant with it. I'm not convinced it works, and people who know science tell me it's really bad for the ph of the soil.

I have another friend - a nice, laid back mom - who whenever a kid got dirty insisted that "you gotta eat a pint of dirt before you die".

And I love the moms with the pacifiers. With the first kid, when the pacifier hits the floor, it gets sterilized in boiling water. Second kid, rinse it off under hot water in the faucet. Third kid, blow on it or just wipe it on the blue jeans...

I read on the web somewhere that there is a nasty skin fungus that you can get from sphag, so always wear gloves. I haven't yet.

That is correct info about the moss. I have used it for 13 years now without gloves and have not been troubled by that fungus.

I was baby sitting my daughter's kids the other day and they refused to eat a cut apple which was sitting on the kitchen counter for 2 to 3 hours because by now it was full of germs. I happened to have a supersized bag of M&Ms on me which I was going to distribute for their snack. I went to the upstairs balcony, yelled M&Ms from heaven and threw the whole lot all over their living room floor. You should have seen the melee of the 4 little boys scrambling for and eating the M&Ms from the floor. Afterward I sat them down and explained the hypocrosy of their Bacteria fear as it obviously did not apply to something they really wanted.

Nick

LOL, Nick, et al.
Have enjoyed lurking this thread all week.
Hope you all can keep it going to 100!
Jan

What I've heard and read numerous times re sphag is that people got infections years ago (back when you started, Nick?) but don't anymore because of a difference in processing.

That right? WC8

We are not the only ones focused on turds and what have you. Yahoo news sports an article that pig waste can reduce global warming. All Gore must be in heaven. The article also suggests that steps need to be taken to have cows pass less methane gas. Maybe fewer beans in their diet. That has worked in the LA school district. They have a new High School that has yet to open because its on an old land fill and methane gas was of concern. They were planning to install methane sensors but abandoned the project because of the make up of the student body. The sensors would have burnt out because of overloding.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090531/ap_on_sc/eu_netherlands_pigs_and_co2

Nick