I can't speak to bush snails but I can tell you that you'll never be able to 100% pest proof anything. The best thing you can do is isolate any new plants at first to see if they have any pests.

Here's the rub: no single application of pesticide is going to fully rid you of any pests a plant may have. So even doing what you are doing/planning on doing might not stop pests from spreading. Isolating and treating the plant multipe times, as well as washing your hands and tools between handling plants is the best method.

I realize this. I'm just trying to minimize my chances of getting bush snails in the snail free terrarium. Short of never introducing anything in there ever again, or sticking solely to flask grown seedlings, there's always a risk. The systemic is nice because it continues to kill pests for a while after application. The snail bait is to try and get them as they come out, if they are there. I just did a good long dunk of the new orchids, and the only thing that came out was one lonely beetle-like thing that promptly got flushed down the drain.

I'm just wondering if there's something anyone does that I haven't mentioned. I would love to be able to isolate them for long enough to be relatively sure they don't have pests, but I fear by that point they will have gone downhill. I don't have a spare terrarium to place them in, unfortunately.

terpguy,

I differ with you as to "The best thing you can do is isolate any new plants at first to see if they have any pests." There is no reason "to see if they have any pests". I think that the BEST method is to quarantine and then to immediately "treat" any incoming plant on arrival. I agree with you that it is important to remain vigilant.

Yesterday, I accepted delivery of a mature plant at noon. By 9 PM, I noticed li'l white crawlin' thangs. I sprayed immediately with a common, OTC pyrethrin spray. This plant had been in transit for only two days. The plant's source might not have known of this infestation :) !

I already had planned an imidacloprid treatment for my entire collection this morning at dawn. This treatment includes spraying the plants as well as the media.

Immediate quarantine & immediate treatment are the best methods known to me to handle new plants. I have suffered the consequences of being too lax in the past!

Plants which are imported into this country are required by the USDA to be treated with insecticides in advance. We should follow their lead.

Let's continue this discussion. It's one of the most important issues in "active" collections. Anyone who "imports" any new plant whether it's from around the corner or from around the globe should be careful.

--Stitz--

I was pretty lucky until the snail infestation. The thing is, the plant that was the most likely culprit was from a source I trust. And a mounted plant also. But you never know. I bought it at a show. Who knows what even your trusted sources can pick up at such a setting? Now I use a systemic as soon as I get a new plant, and periodically on my collection as a whole. Basically, if it's not visibly infested with something, I feel that a good systemic should take care of what few beasties, if any, are lurking beneath the surface. Plus a second go around after a week or two. The snail bait is a new addition to my regimen, due to the difficulty of getting rid of the rotten things.

hi, I have found fish emulsion to be quite effective. I have used it as a soak, and spray. a few of my plants (cyms & catts) showed no indication of any snails until i watered them with FE and the bush snails came out. another one of the cyms had about 10 of those small centipede things which did not surface until being watered with FE. I also found that if I spray the plants with FE before bringing them inside in the fall, i don't get any spiker mites, or scale, etc. at all during the winter months. I have to admit i did not spray or water with FE last fall - have no idea why I did not - probably, a series of senior's moments .. good luck and let us know what you decide.
sue

We are saying exactly the same thing, Stitz :) See the last sentence of my post: "Isolating [quarantine] and treating new plants multiple times..." What you pointed out, "to see if there are pests" was supposed to be interpreted "Isolate for observation". Where we might differ is the implied difference in times. I'd recommend, for the uber paranoid, isolating the plant for a maybe a month and do multiple treatments before integrating the new plants into the collection. As I mentioned before, one application of any pesticide won't do away with any and all baddies. Some will inevitably escape spray and go on to infect the rest of the collection. Do I believe this somewhat protracted amount of time is wholly necessary? Probably not, and in most cases since most plants aren't infected a single spray and two week isolation would be more than sufficient. But Quinn, if you're REALLY concerned about this as you seem to be, it might be helpful and would definitely give you some piece of mind to draw out the isolation process.

Interesting you say that, Sue. Fish emulsion is a fertilizer, not a pesticide. If it has pesticide properties, that'd certainly be far more green than the imidicloprid stitz and I are so fond of. I suspect there are other things at work aside from the fish emulsion, but I wouldn't rule it out. Lord knows it smells horrible!

On a side note, and speaking of spider mites: Can I just say how disgusting it is when a spider mite infestation is so bad that they are actually crawling all over the hook on a hanging basket? We have a table at work that is dedicated to balfour aralias, various jasmines, and some odd stiff succulent cycad looking plants. The infestation is SO bad the mites are crawling on the handles of the Jasminum sambac hanging baskets *shudder*

Interesting about the fish emulsion. It is not the first time that I've heard of using it as a pest preventative. In particular, I've heard of it being used for scale.

Spider mites is why I don't grow ivy or jasmine anymore. And I loved my jasmine. But they are such spider mite magnets, and I got tired of the whole 3 steps forward, 2 steps back routine. Every time I lost my jasmines, it was to spider mites. Then I had to worry about what else might have them. The worst instance was when I thought that maybe, just maybe, I might be able to grow one ivy, far away from the rest of the collection. Within the week, it was dead from spider mites, and my jasmines on the other side of the room got them too, and that was the end of my growing either ever again. Well, except for officinale, which is outside.

Thanks for the tips, everyone.

i agree about the awful smell. but after much searching i found a FE product which has been "deodorized" and the smell is quite mild with a hint of fishiness. the trade mark is "muskie's".
sue

It sounds as if you're worried that your plants won't survive if they aren't in the terrarium immediately. Plants will live for a very long time without one, especially now that the warm weather is here. You can put them outside for the summer. This is ample time to observe and treat your new babies.

Bush snails are simply the worst IMO and once I had them it took a long time to get rid of them - years actually. I'm pretty convinced they arrived with plants ordered from a very well known and respected vendor in Hawaii. My solution now that I'm free of them - I don't order plants from Hawaii any longer. That may sound harsh, but burn me once and I won't take the chance again.

Kevin

I really can't put them outside for the summer. They are teeny tiny little Pleuros and related types. Not only would they fry outside (I've fried thyme multiple times out in my yard, and thyme is tough stuff) but they would probably get lost - either blown away or carried off by squirrels. Things also tend to dry out quickly in my room, especially when they are potted in 1 inch pots. The humidity and air circulation via my computer fan setup are really vastly preferable conditions for them than outside the terrarium. Plus there's always the risk that one of the cats will knock em off if I don't have them enclosed.

I understand completely, Kevin. They are horrid.

" Yesterday, I accepted delivery of a mature plant at noon. By 9 PM, I noticed li'l white crawlin' thangs. I sprayed immediately with a common, OTC pyrethrin spray. This plant had been in transit for only two days. The plant's source might not have known of this infestation :) ! "

A little follow-up with the vendor is always appreciated. The vendor, in this case, was astonished to learn of this infestation! Shipping stress is a well-documented problem with animals and plants.

--Stitz--

Kevin the only bush snails I received have been from a CA vendor - a very well known CA vendor - who specializes in species.

I think you can get them from anywhere that grows in a g/h.

Brooke

Brooke,

I know, I know - my rationalization really doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but you know how weird we plant people can be. It's just that I sooooooo hate these shelled demons and never want them around again.

K

what's the big deal with bush snails? I found one for the first time in over a year yesterday. big deal. Since I found one, I'm certain that I will find more.... eventually

Yesterday, I treated an area for slugs. now, SLUGS pizz me off! I don't wait for 'em to happen, though....

--Stitz--

Hi everyone - haven't written in here in a long time.

Anyway, Stitz, what do you do for slugs? Lately, I have been having problems with them.

Bush snails: I am convinced that they live dormant in sphagnum moss! I have had clean plants that I have repotted in moss, only to see them eaten alive by those buggers! I do get some satisfaction when I feel their shells crack between my fingers. Sick, isn't it?

I have never heard of FE working for any insects, scale in particular, and I am skeptical. Sorry, but once you start dealing with the evil white boisduval scale, something as simple as FE seems to be too easy! I am willing to try, though, if you can tell me that it killed them DEAD!

~Denise

I think fish emulsion is very caustic and damages orchid roots.

Denise, I recently began to use SLUGGO, an iron phosphate compound. Previously, I used a product which appeared the same (sorry, I forgot the name!). I purchased the SLUGGO from Roberts Flower Supply in OHIO last year when Mister Roberts visited the Maryland Orchid Society. The Roberts' have a very active web site. Missus Roberts may answer the phone, if you call. She will happily take voice orders, too!

It's best to treat NOW !

--Stitz--

You can get the iron phosphate at any big box store under various names.

For bush snails I finally broke down and got the real poison. I won't use it outside because of critters, tame and wild, but in the g/h my toads can't get to the plants so I used it.

Brooke

"what's the big deal with bush snails?"

They eat roots! That's what they do! In particular root tips. There is nothing more depressing than a great looking plant, with new roots everywhere all minus the root tip. And it doesn't take a huge infestation to do this. If I remember correctly, bush snails multiply rather slowly, but only a few per pot can drive one nutso with their damage.

K