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anisten_gw

city compost....crap

Anisten
14 years ago

So I needed to fill large beds for flowers and vegetables. So being low in funds I decided to buy 2 tons of compost from the city. Well I imagine that they compost the scraps we put out in the green bins and they anaerobically compost it and then must mix in with twigs and clippings from trees.

The compost doesn't smell but it is so lifeless that the worms wont even go near it. I tried to screen some of it and then put in bagged topsoil into the holes where the plants went in otherwise everything started to die.

My question is now that it is all planted what can I put on it, on top or through watering to make this good stuff. I imagine it is very acidic. I don't have much money and would like to stay close to home in using amendments. I have read about the use of Epsom salts.

I have put some of this compost in my worm bin and it took weeks before my worms would infiltrate it.

What would you do to bring back the proper soil food web to these beds?

Comments (22)

  • Kimmsr
    14 years ago

    One of the best reasons to make your own compost since you have no idea what someone else is doing to make what they call compost. What was the level of organic matter in your soil before? If that was low there would have been very little earthworm, or any other part of the Soil Food Web, active and you would not see very much after just getting some compost, no matter the source, into the soil for some time after.
    Since your city probably composts the yard waste from all over there is no way for you to know if that compost contains any of one of the more persistant herbicides that stay active even in compost for several years, killing the plants people put that compost on.

  • organicguy
    14 years ago

    anisten,
    You mentioned that you thought it was acidic, so maybe you need to get that tested. If it's acidic, powdered limestone is local and affordable.
    Since it is already down, I would suggest adding organic matter like grass clipping, chopped leaves, . . . anything you can get in quantity locally, and turn the compost & organic matter into the soil around the plants.
    Any herbicides that may have been in the original organic matter that they composted would likely have been greatly deluted by composting, and leaching over time. I would'nt be overly concerned about that.
    You also mentioned that you filled your beds with the stuff, and then added some bagged topsoil into the plant holes. The compost is almost certainly deficient in nutrients, and bagged top soil could be the same. It sounds like a very poor mix to grow anything, but only a soil test is going to tell you what is deficient. That you can do at the end of the year.
    So assuming that you are growing in a very poor soil/compost mix, I would suggest adding some blood meal and bone meal around the base of each plant, and mixing it into the tope ince or so of soil. I would be suprised if you didn't see a dramatic change in a week or so.

    Ron
    The Garden Guy
    ** See Link Below
    Informative Articles, ongoing garden journal, and
    interactive message boards!

    Here is a link that might be useful: The Garden Guy Website & Blog

  • guardenman
    14 years ago

    My rule is I use the city compost for flower beds and I use my own for food crops. Usually the city stuff is mainly leaf matter. You can buy earth worms pretty cheap and they reproduce quickly. Have you used fertilizer? I tend to add a little extra nitrogen when using leaf compost. Also remember compost is a soil aditive it is not soil. Compost should be mixed with soil. It can turn weak soil into healthy soil. Most plants won't grow in pure compost.

  • Anisten
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Thank you for the advice.
    I don't think this compost has any nutrition @ all. I have been vermicomposting for many years buying earthworms will not help right now since the twigs and small branches are not decomposing yet and therefor they will just run away until the situation improves.
    I have given in and added some organic fertizer. I also sprinkled worm castings/coffee grounds and finely pulverized egg shells on top and will continue to top dress with organic matter/vermi castings until it gets to a good healthy level(meaning good bacterial growth as evident by the ample worm population)
    I don't see any signs of any leaf litter in the compost though. That would be a good sign. The only organic material visible are the twigs.

  • novice_2009
    14 years ago

    anisten, you mentioned money is an issue. I think making your own compost would be a great way to save money, and help cut down on waste. The best part is you know what's going into it. When I first started my pile, I collected some earthworms after rains, and when I dug up some sod, and added them. I don't know what happened, but the bottom of the pile is FULL of them now. Will never need to add another I bet. As far as twigs, leaves, kitchen scraps, all free- just takes time and effort. Best of luck to you.

  • guardenman
    14 years ago

    It's not sewage sledge is it? DO you see wood chips in it or sticks? Sticks (small branches) wood indicate it is leaf matter. Wood chips wood indicate sewage sledge.

  • Anisten
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    I don't think it is sewage as they have special composters to handle the kitchen scraps they pick up from the curb. It is sticks but I think that gets added on after since there should also be pieces of bones in it if larger items get left behind. That is why I think they add that on later.

    Novice2009 the worms will come naturally into a compost heap as long as it doesn't stink(meaning anerobic conditions) or it's too hot for them.

    I know all about worms being into vermicomposting for many years. Vermicompost or vermicastings is way better than compost but it is never a quick process. We do have a spot where we throw all debris from the garden so I know with a little chopping into small pieces and keeping it moist I will get black gold.

    As soon as the plants are bigger I will also mulch around them and that will also help to increase the organic matter.

  • tiny1
    14 years ago

    I went to the city compost facility near my home and asked for a sample to have tested. The county said it was of good quality, so I bought 4 yards. I found out that they use leaves and manure from nearby farms. I used it to get started, but will use my own from here out.
    Seems to be pretty good.

  • organic_jeannie
    14 years ago

    I hate to be a spoiler on city-provided compost, b/c it is a good way, and a cheap way, of re-cycling green waste. BUT, my reservations concern not only what herbicides and chemicals may be in the product, I'm also squeamish about what disease organisms may be present, organisms that may impact not only the health of plants we grow but our own human health.

    Here's why:

    On plant disease: I know of many diseases which linger in soil (and in the soil that clings to the roots of discarded plants) for a very long time if not indefinitely, suchy as Tobacco Mosaic Virus (which affects 350 plant species, such as Morning Glory) And Fusarium and Verticillum Wilt which affects Tomatoes (all nightshade family, as peppers, eggplant)and Carnation (all dianthus family) and you really don't want this problem in the soil in your yard. These things may persist in plant tissue yrs after it is "dead" and heat (as in hot composting) doesn't kill it.

    On human disease: I'm also leary of recycled gardening mat'ls such as plants grown with animal manures or animal tissue such as blood and bone meal b/c of human diseases such as Mad Cow Disease, and Avian Flu (chicken manure)and other wierd diseases we don't know much about. Some diseases like Mad Cow remain in the ashes of burned carcasses indefinitly.

    I stopped using animal products in my yard years ago when I learned that "organic" fertilizers such as those containing bat guano can cause a nasty lung disease.

    Anybody else share my concerns?

  • zardthegardener
    14 years ago

    organic_jeannie, I wish I didn't read your post since, ignorance is bliss. I was planning on using county compost for my vegetable garden. Because I'm new to composting, I've been reading a lot and most lists of things not-to-compost include diseased plants. I'm hoping those with more experience than me will comment on your post.

  • rdak
    14 years ago

    I'm not as concerned as you Jeannie but, then again, I get my organic matter by collecting MASSIVE amounts of leaves in the fall and mulch mowing them everywhere and spreading shredded leaves all over the veggie areas.

    Same for bagged grass clippings during season. (I wait until June before doing that to avoid getting clippings from people who have used weed killers in the spring.)

    I have always found woodchip piles out in the woods where workman have done some tree trimming/chipping along railroad tracks or just plain dumped by utility companies.

    So, it's easy for me to say you are too fussy but I don't do what you advise against in the first place. LOL!!

    I guess, in a real world sense, I agree with you in the main because I don't use those "suspicious" things very often, if at all.

  • flowersnow
    14 years ago

    I bought 6 yards only after seeing how it was processed....2 years in the one spot, moved for another year...sifted 3 times before being sold. The sifting was to remove anything non organic. It didn't work. I'm constantly finding glass and plastic shards all over. I now keep a little container in the garden for these "surprises". Won't buy again.

  • franktank232
    14 years ago

    Its pretty dirty stuff here too :) Its almost entirely leaf compost here. Its very heavy stuff, usually contains some rocks (not many, but a few), a few sticks, and that is about it. I will say it smells pretty good, doesn't stink. I've grown stuff in it for years, just add some nutrients. I like to add wood chips and grass clippings.

  • cindy_l
    14 years ago

    Our city compost is free. I don't worry about pests or seeds because it is hot composted - but who knows what chemicals are in it. I also find pieces of plastic and glass. It isn't much good as "compost" in that it is nutrient poor but it works as a soil amendment to loosen up clay.

  • zardthegardener
    14 years ago

    I don't understand how compost can be nutrient poor? I was under the impression that all finished compost, regardless of the original material or method used, will result in rich matter that will feed the soil.

  • organicguy
    14 years ago

    Compost is organic matter that decomposes and is usually exposed to the elements - rain, snow, etc. Over an extended period of time, much of the nutrients contained in the fresh greens & browns gets leached into the ground. The compost is still valuabe as a source of humus, which is the finshed product after organic matter if fully broken down by microorganisms. It will also contain some nutriens, just not as many as did prior to leaching. The more leaching, the lower the nutrient content!
    This is why using an organic mulch or turning organic matter directly into your soil is much better than composting. All the nutrients go where you need them!

    Ron
    The Garden Guy
    ** See Below
    Informative articles, ongoing garden journal and
    interactive message boards!

    Here is a link that might be useful: The Garden Guy Website & Blog

  • zardthegardener
    14 years ago

    Ron, Thanks for the clarification. When I go to my county compost site, I always see people in pickup trucks backup into the pile and take from the top of the pile. I have always taken from the bottom of the pile, since that is what is most accessible to me. With any luck, the nutrients from the top of the pile has leached to my compost at the bottom. :)

  • veracan
    14 years ago

    My township gives away leaf compost every spring. It is still very "hot" when I get it. I always put down lime, and add Terracycle Garden Fertilizer (made from worm castings)and Neptune's Harvest Fish Fertilizer alternately as fertilizer. It adds lots of nutients to the plants that they may not otherwise get if the compost is not nutrient rich. You can usually go to your county extension office and have the soil tested to see what is needed as amendments.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Terracycle Garden Fertilizer

  • terrene
    14 years ago

    Our municipal composting site is wonderful and it's free. The enormous piles of organics, mostly leaves and grass clippings, are composted for 4 years before they are screened and available for pickup. The compost itself is black and crumbly - there are a few sticks, pine cones, and pieces of debris that get through the screen, but I have some of that in my own yard (bits of plastic tape from cardboard, produce stickers, plant tags, etc.)

    I mostly use it to topdress the lawn and gardens, and also dig it into new garden beds. I don't worry in the least about contaminants, pesticides, diseases, or weed seeds from municipal compost. The risk of poisoning seems far less than from a neighbor spraying their weed n feed, or from the raw meat that sits on the countertop!!

    It starts out like this -
    {{gwi:135335}}

    And ends up like this -
    {{gwi:135336}}

  • terran
    14 years ago

    Sprinkling with an ounce per gallon unsulphured molasses in the watering can might wake up the microorganisms in the compost.

    Terran

  • rae_stl
    14 years ago

    anisten, I learned how craptacular city compost is the hard way- by amending my veggie garden with it. Being a newbie, I had no idea how acidic it was. Whoopsie!

    Interestingly, the year before, we used it to mulch an herb garden. The stuff we didn't use, we threw into a corner of the yard. It degraded into this beautiful dirt that our inherited peach tree loved. This year, it bloomed and bore fruit for the first time in two years. The tree is so happy, it bore enough fruit to crack it in half!

    The worms love it now too. I guess time changes it from crap to gold? I like the suggestions of adding molasses and lime to make it more amicable to the garden. Like a base on which to start. But only after picking out the shoes, glass and other goodies :) .

  • Anisten
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Through the wisdom of a friend I figured out what the issue with this compost is. TOO MUCH SALT! Since this is purely made from the city wide organics and we consume too much salt and others like me will only put in items that are not healthy for either our worm bins or composters, the result is too much salty foods. That is why after about a year once the salt has diluted the soil is good.

    It's not acidic because if it was then my Hydrangea would be blue in colour and it is pink.

    The worms really don't like salt and it also acts like a preserver so even though it has lots of organic pieces like twigs it wont break down that quickly until the salt leaches away.

    Obviously some of you will get great compost from the city but most of us will find really lousy material, and are best to make your own or sometimes buy the expensive bagged stuff(which has never given me any problems before)

    So I have a stunted watermelon plant as a result of this and a Zuchinni plant that is dying also. But not too bad for this year. By next year the results should improve.