Mosses and growing sphag

15 years ago

In Quinnfyre's recent thread, we wandered OT, so here's a separate thread.

Check out these spurs!

Posted by quinnfyre z7 PA (My Page) on

Mon, Apr 20, 09 at 0:05

Aerangis mystacidii has been in spike for a while now. Things look to be progressing at a faster pace now, once the spurs began to appear. They seem to grow visibly, daily.

Three days ago:

Aerangis mystacidii

Today:

Aerangis mystacidii

I am impressed at the length of the spurs. It's fun to see!

I also have a little question. Has anyone ever seen those little red growths before? (Second pic, in the sphag.) Could you tell me what they are? Are they harmful? They only showed up within the past couple days.

Follow-Up Postings:

RE: Check out these spurs!

* Posted by calvin_orchidlover 6a Toronto (My Page) on

Mon, Apr 20, 09 at 0:32

Q that is so exciting - I can't wait to see this one bloom. I believe the little red things are spore heads of the moss...that's incredible! How often do you mist your mounts? I struggle to get moss growing well on mine although they grow in the pots.

-Calvin

* Posted by quinnfyre z7 PA (My Page) on

Mon, Apr 20, 09 at 0:49

I water daily, unless something's visibly damp - some of the mounts have sphag around the roots, and if that still looks wet to me, I leave that one be. But others are completely bare-root on cork, and those I feel free to water, since they dry out again soon enough.

That mount has moss growing all over the sphag, very lush! In fact, the side that's showing is the side that has the least amount of moss because I don't directly water that side, due to the spike being there. I get picky about where water ends up, because I don't want to see rot get started. If I get sloppy and get water in the crown or at the bases of leaves where the angle is such that it doesn't drain, I blot it with a Q-tip. I know in nature things get rained on, but I think more changes occur in nature too, like heavier winds that might shake that water out. Plus, things in nature don't necessarily look perfect either. My theory is if I can avoid rot by doing this one simple thing, I'm going to do it.

Spore heads, huh? Fascinating...

* Posted by highjack z6 KY (My Page) on

Mon, Apr 20, 09 at 7:02

Calvin are they spores or seeds? My sphag will get these and I watch them go from bright orange to dark brown like a dried seed.

I always thought live sphag grew in shade conditions but my mounts that end up with live sphag get it first in areas where the most sun hits them. I also get live sphag in my phrags which I grow in catt light.

Congrats on the buds - can't wait for the pictures.

Brooke

* Posted by calvin_orchidlover 6a Toronto (My Page) on

Mon, Apr 20, 09 at 9:08

I don't think that moss is sphag - I have something similar on some of my mounts, and its more of a creeping stringy kind of moss (although it's hard to tell from the photo). Also, I think the spore heads on sphag look a little different

I did a bit of research (http://www.adkscience.org/gallery/collections/boreal-trail.htm) and it seems that the spore heads turn brown after they ripen, and then fall off/burst open and lots of tiny spores come out.

Brooke - I too have heard that bright sun is great for sphag. You are lucky you managed to get some to grow...I am still hoping one of my friends who grows carnivores will get around to sending me a little snippet so I can try to grow some.

* Posted by whitecat8 z4 MN (My Page) on

Mon, Apr 20, 09 at 15:29

Earlier this year, my Ang. fastuosa's spurs just took off at some point. It's fun to watch.

Yeah, your moss looks like "moss moss," rather than sphag. On another thread, a few folks said it's a good sign of the plant's health. Since I started using spring water, a lot of my mounts and pots have gotten regular moss on them, and it gets the little spore heads. Other plants now get the long, stringy moss that Calvin described. No spore heads on that, at least not yet.

Calvin, theoretically, you can grow sphag from dried sphag. http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/bog/msg0115225814471.html. Note: "LFS" means "long-fibered sphag."

From that thread: “… (from dried sphag), pick out all the ends with buds. Then chop, chop, chop the buds with scissors and sprinkle the dust over the growing area. Eventually it will grow but this takes A LOT longer than using the live bits."

Another note: This guy uses growing mediums of moist, “dead” sphag or 50/50 sand and peat. Both need to be moist constantly.

Brooke, because you mention the spore heads that regular moss gets, I’m wondering if you might have that growing, rather than sphag. When New Zealand sphag starts growing, it looks like the picture that’s linked.

This guy has what looks to be a comprehensive, successful process for growing live sphag, but he starts w/ live sphag: http://www.geocities.com/butchtincher/. Evidently, the developing sphag has to be wet constantly, w/ occasional flooding. But, nature being what she is, no doubt sphag starts growing in less than ideal conditions.

Whitecat8

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:154627}}

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Comments (12)

xmpraedicta
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Cool - thanks for starting this thread and those links, WC. I tried the chopping method to no avail...but I recently got some very high quality sphag from NZ that has very good visible buds so i will try again.

Actually I discovered some sphag that came back to life *inside* a pot of a phal I had. The pot was transparent and I saw the growing sphag after I unpotted it. Sadly, it died, probably because I wasn't keeping it wet enough. I think they need to be sitting in a tray of water.
hort_lvr_4life
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I wonder if the moss is actually beneficial to the roots of the Orchids because it would help retain more even moisture? Just a thought - this is all new to me. I have not been fortunate enough to have moss. I also don't yet own any mounted Orchids either.
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I've taken the Den keiki out of the baggie, placed it into a small clay pot with some bark, and left a couple of strands of moss loosely bunched at the root area... I've got the clay pot set in a clay saucer, and under that is a plastic saucer with a little water in it. The whole thing is sitting on a heating pad under grow lights. I hope this covers the light, warmth, and a bit of humidity. I'll watch it closely, and add water as needed. I really wish our greenhouse was up and operational right now... it will be a while before growth appears on the Coelogyne without that advantage! Everyone is seeing new growth on theirs already... everyone except me! The pbulb is quite wrinkled, but it's still green and the leaves are both still hanging in there! No sign of new growth yet, but I don't have the advantage that a greenhouse gives. I must say... this is all so exciting and suspenseful! Regardless of the outcome, I look at this as a wonderful opportunity to learn, and to hone my skill at growing! Now I'm wondering if I should do anything different with the Coelogyne? Should I move it into more light? Dare I put it into a clay pot with bark? Or am I just freaking out?!
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Alvin brings up a good point, something which I've learned too - potting everything of the same plant type (ie phals) in the same media really saves a lot of heart ache! Just an echo to whichever parties said this - your watering habits and humidity conditions should probably dictate the media you use, rather than the other way around. But in regards to your original question, don't worry about phals going from bark to sphag - I've done sphag to bark and bark to sphag and they don't really care at all...just do it when they're root tips are growing (usually when there is nice summery light / artificial CFL lighting). Whereabouts in Canada are you, fellow canuck? :) Also, for repotting of phals, I mainly do it if the stem gets too long - ie over time, it loses leaves and it becomes really spindly, so I just sink the entire plant when I repot so I get it nice and low again. I've also repotted randomly, either because the pot broke, or the plant was stalling (aka no reason at all) and nothing has died yet. But these results may not be typical so don't take my word for it! Just realize that these plants are pretty hardy :) Mehitabel - I don't think there is harm in repotting a rootless phal, since it could probably care less about what media it is in (it has no roots to feel the media). In fact I have repotted a rotten phal previously in bark to sphag(I over watered in winter cause I thought the bark was too dry...in reality the plant was underlit and rotting) and got root growth, although I don't know whether it was because of the change in media (I always have this feeling that moist sphag creates a more humid environment compared to bark...) or the increase in light because it was closer to spring that elicited root growth. The repotting definitely didn't HARM it.
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highjack
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I don't think I have moss moss, I think what I'm getting is the sphag coming back to life. The spores I'm getting do not look like spores but actual seeds on fairly tall stems. One stem, one seed/spore, whatever. I checked my pictures and the best I can find is in this shot

{{gwi:159682}}

It is barely visible under the top leaf, left side.

Tomorrow I will see if we can get some pictures of the moss I'm growing plus the spores/seeds. I don't know what this is but I like it - a lot! It reduces the amount of watering on mounts and makes a great blanket on top of some of my pots. I repotted some phrags today and carefully placed the moss back on top.

Brooke
quinnfyre
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Well, here's the moss in my Ang case. First up, the other side of Aerangis mystacidii's mount:

{{gwi:159684}}

A closer view. The green is a little oversaturated in color, but you can still see some detail:

{{gwi:159686}}

Some moss starting on Aerangis biloba's mount:

{{gwi:159688}}

Moss in Pleurothallis amparoana's pot:

{{gwi:159690}}

None of these started of my accord, they just started themselves. I like the way it looks, but it does make it a little tricky to try and figure out what's going on underneath. I don't plan on removing any of it, just let it do its thing and grow if it wants to.
terrestrial_man
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
The moss appears to be an Anomodon species. At least in the top two images. Need close ups on the lower two to venture a guess.
Nice growing job-probably due to your humidity!
quinnfyre
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Well, I looked up live sphagnum moss, and I definitely don't have that. I tried looking up Anomodon, and can't say for certain I have that, either. All the pics that I saw looked more branching than what I have, but it might be too early to say? All I know is that this moss looks like it stays low and creeps, looking more like a carpet rather than stemming out. Also, the spore caps on this one are tiny and orange-red, and the pics I saw of some of the Anomodons are more like seeds sticking out on longer thin stems.

I found some more growing on Hydroton! That was neat. All the others are growing on sphag or some other more organic medium.

I tried looking up some sites that might help me ID this stuff, but didn't find anything that really helped me, a moss novice. Oh well. Let it grow as it will. The one thing I did seem to find out was that iron or sulfur based solutions kill moss, so I guess I should be careful if I want to keep the moss. I seem to recall stuff to get rid of slugs/snails is iron based?
terrestrial_man
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
The physical appearance of a moss can vary depending upon the conditions that it is growing under. Yours is doing great which I believe is because you provide more humidity and water to it and perhaps more shade than a similar species that I have growing on cork and that really gets dried between the almost daily sprayings. Check the link below. The key is when the plant produces capsules. Whenever compare them to the one in the image I have.

Here is a link that might be useful:
garyfla_gw
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Hi
I have all kinds of different "mosses" ferns whatnot pop up on several mountings love the kind that looks like green velvet that forms clumps but is always over run by boston ferns and polpodiums . i think I have a couple of lycopodiums also ,but who knows they are harder to tell apart than orchids. I love selaginellas and have 8 named varieties and they look entirely different depending on where they are growing. Most remarkable is the color change ,form blue to straw to brilliant green. I use them as underplantings in pots where they do best but will also grow on tree limbs given enough moisture.
Oh well I decided to just to enjoy them and not try to figure out what the heck they are lol I can't keep my orchids straight will leave mosses and ferns, lichens to the experts. Certainly add a lot of interest to plantings don't they??? gary
highjack
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I finally got a picture of my moss. I pulled it up in the one area so you can see the length/shape of it. You can also see the little seeds/spores.

{{gwi:159692}}

Any guess on the type? My moss is always from Chilean sphag, not my NZ sphag.

Brooke
xmpraedicta
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I'd like to know too as I believe I have the same type:

{{gwi:154083}}
highjack
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I was relying on you Calvin :>)

Brooke
terrestrial_man
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Brooke, from the image you have at least two moss species in your pot. Calvin, your moss may look similar but who knows. I have something comparable that came in with a plant of Dendrobium cuthbertsonii. I do not have it listed on my Photobucket journals on Mosses, yet. Without a lot of time to do the microscopic exam, or for me all I can do is a hand lens and the images by digital in my PhotoImpression program.
What really helps is for larger or more close up images.
Check the link below to see what I mean. It really helps in the id process.

Here is a link that might be useful: Some images and info on some mosses

Mosses and growing sphag

Comments (12)

xmpraedicta

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