Interesting. Does PET stand for a domestic animal or the polyesthyer fiber the stuff is made off? There is a product where PET is the abbreviation of the chemical. I wonder how much water it absorbs and if, when wet, it compacts. How expensive is it? I just blew through 1 1/2 cu feet of SM and still have all the Pleuros and then the Bulbos to go.

Definitely worth considering and trying out a couple of plants to see how they do. In what quantity can you buy it? If the plants like it it would definitely be an advantage as it does not deteriorate. I just took a mountain of deteriorated SM to the trash.

It's amazing how fast a year goes by, before you know it it's time to replace it all again. They say 'Life is like a roll of toilet paper, the closer to the end you get, the faster it spins'. I'm 72 now and it's spinning fast, wasn't too long ago when I gave all the Masdies fresh SM and here I'm doing it again.

Nick

It was expensive $25 for 1 cubic foot, but if I never have to replace it the price isn't that bad. It also comes in larger cubes 4" X 4". In the Hydroponic store they had a tomato plant growing in a spackle bucket hooked up to a hydro system. It does compact a bit when wet like SM does but it looks like it dries faster. I'm looking to see if roots will grow into it. I have a cattleya in a 4" wood basket that has roots starting to grow out the bottom. I filled a larger basket with the cubes and set the basket with the plant on top to see how the roots react.

It doesn't say on the bag but I'm guessing its not made from peoples pets.

No, I was wondering if it is a product FOR pet. When you google PET fiber you come up with pet products and a chemical whose initials are PET which makes the polyester fibers. Could you give me the name of the company that makes it, I called 2 hydroponic stores and neither of them has heard of it. SM isn't exactly cheap either, if this stuff works as well it's worth the price.

Nick

The product name is Hail Cubes, they have a site suretogrow.com. I've seen the product used for flower pots and for vertical garden pouches that hang from a wall. The site only gives info on using it for hydroponics. I'm using it now with 5 plants so I guess I will find out soon enough how well it works. I put some in a drinking glass with water at the bottom and let it sit for a few hours. It didn't wick any water at all from the bottom, I'm not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing at this point. It did seem to stay moist for a few days after watering which is why I put some in a vanda basket, to keep the root area humid. I only have 2 masdies which were re potted only a month a go so I didn't want to disturb them again.

I was kidding about the pet thing, I knew what you meant, it just struck me as a funny Cruella DeVille orchid grower thing

2 cu ft for $37 plus shipping. Only slightly more expensive than good SM. I would like to try it before I take the plunge. Got any left over? I'll trade you a Masdie division for enough to fill one 4" square pot. If interested email me.

Nick

Sounds like a good deal to me.

I have never before tried a test involving 2 media in one pot but this seems perfect for it. Plan to put a Masdevallia in a pot with 1" space all around and fill one side of the pot with the PET fibers, the other side with SM. In 1/2 a year pull out the plant and see where it sent the new roots.

Nick

Nick,

Just to play devil's advocate...

That seems a little risky, unless the 2 mediums are very close in how they react with water, I'd think one side would be either too dry or too wet as compared to the other side...

Enjoy your willingness to experiment though...

Bob

I don't water to suit the media, I use media to suit my watering habits. All the plants in the cold greenhouse get soaked every 2 to 3 days. If that's too much water for certain plants I'll put them in meshpots or take other measures. SM works perfect for me except I have to replace it once a year which can become a pain. If this stuff, using my exact same watering method, works as well, it would be a big improvement.

I'll do the usual comparison, one plant in moss, another identical plant in fiber, but I thought I'd try the side by side comparison. I had up and down comparisons in the same pot with redwood chips. Filled the bottom 1/2 of the pot with redwood and had the plant in SM sitting on top. A year later I found that the roots had filled the available SM space but did not reach down into the redwood.

Never tried the side by side, just a thought.

Nick

Thats kind of what I'm thinking with the basket on top of basket, I want to see if the roots will grow into it or away from it. Side by side in a pot is an interesting idea. Take some progress photos.

I recieved the magic cubes, look promising. Took a large Masdie Angel Bells and divided it in 3 each with about 25 leaves. One in conventional SM, the other in the PET cubes and the third in a pot half with moss, half with the cubes. In 6 month we shall see what happens.

I also filled two 4 1/2" clay pots with bone dry SM and dry PET cubes. I'm off to the Post Office to weigh them, then I will saturate them with water and after allowing dripping, weigh them again to see if one holds more water. I plan to weigh them daily for a few days to see how much each retains the water. Will report.

Nick

Here are photos of some of the plants I potted in the PET fiber. I will take photos again in a few months to see how the plants respond. I tried to pick a few different kinds of plants to test but my goal was to find something that worked for masdies since that is one group I've never done well with. The first photo is of one of my Masdies potted in the glass bowl method, which has been the only way I have been able to grow them in my home.
{{gwi:150822}}

Thanks to Orchidnick I put this one in PET fiber in a net pot placed in a vase.

{{gwi:150823}}

Again thanks to Orchidnick here is another in PET fiber in a hydroponic pot. The pot has a wick and water reservoir in the bottom.
{{gwi:150824}}

Here is a sickly Phal. It lost a leaf to black spot last summer and has not been doing well since.

{{gwi:150825}}

Vanda and some air plants. The basket it was in was breaking apart so I stuffed the whole thing in a bigger basket with some pet

{{gwi:150826}}

Cattleya Basket, I filled the lower basket with pet

{{gwi:150827}}

Sophronitella that I bought mounted, I put the mount in a basket and filled in the space around.

{{gwi:150828}}

Hi! Wow you have great orchids. Can you explain to me- what is the "glass bowl method" for your masdev? Does it not drain out at the bottom?? Thank you....

I read about the glass bowl method on another forum. The one in the photo is 2" of hydroton pellets with sphag moss on top. The idea is to keep a 1/2" of water in the hydroton at the bottom which is wicked up to the moss above keeping the moss damp but not soaking wet and keeping the humidity up around the plant. I also have another version where the plant is in a clay pot with moss, the pot is then put in the opening of the bowl. The bowl has a little water in the bottom but doesn't come in contact with the pot. Condensation builds up on the pot which keeps the root area damp and humid but not wet.

The goal is to find a way to grow Masdevallias in my home without altering my environment or my habits to much. It's something I've not been able to do yet but if I can get the right plant, media and pot combination down I think it will work.

After one day, the PET cubes lost 2 oz of water weight more than the SM which remained virtually unchanged. If this trend continues it would suggest that water evaporates faster from this new stuff. This may be a good thing because other than Dracula and some Pleuros and Masdies which can't get enough water, the problem with SM is that it is too wet for some plants.

My cold GH is a dense shady jungle with the preponderance being Dracula, Pleuros and Madies. There are however a number of other cold loving plants that don't appreciate this daily or every second day deluge. It is for them that this stuff should work better than SM. From what I've seen, I will order a bag of it and start using it. The jury will not bring a verdict for over a year, I'm too impatient to wait for a few test plants to show me the way.

I should probably wait for the summer doldrums when the NBA champion is crowned and the NFL is not active yet. 2 months with nothing but Baseball, Golf and Lawn Bowling -- Groan. The perfect time to spend in a cool atmosphere repotting.

Nick

A pattern is emerging.

Dry weight: ----------------moss 1lb 6oz, PET cubes 1lb 5oz
Soaked, drip dry x 30 min: moss 2-6, PET 2-0
2 days later: --------------moss 2-4, PET 1-13

Sphagnum moss appears to take on more water and hold it longer. I would consider the different water retention characteristics a great advantage as I could continue watering everything the same but knowingly make less water available to certain plants.

Nick

I see the same thing. One thing I notice is the PET dries very fast at the top of the pot but still damp at the bottom. I was thinking about putting a layer of hydroton or maybe some moss on top of the mix to slow down the evaporation. So far I think the Phal likes the mix, it's chunky enough to let air in and stays damp for a few days. I water on Sunday and by Wed the roots are still green while the rest of my phals go back to white the day after watering. I also like that when it dries it takes on water quickly unlike sphag which repels water if it dries out completely.

It's only been a few days but none of the plants have declined at all and I havent watered them since Saturday when I potted them.

The trick is to group your plants into several types which have different needs and then give them all the same thing and still make them all happy. In my cold greenhouse I have mini mounties like Barbosella, Dryadella which are on tiny mounts with very little moss and like to be watered daily. I have them grouped together so I can do that without watering the rest.

Next come Dracula which will stay in SM and get soaked every 2 days, they love truly being wet. Same is true to a lesser extent for most Pleuros.

Then there are a whole lot of other plants in the cold house like Odonts, Oncidiums, Coelogyne, Maxillaria, Dendrobiums and numerous terrestrials which don't like this amount of water. They will also get watered as often but are in media which drains superfast and dries faster. It is for them (except the terrestrials) that I think these PET cubes may come in handy.

Nick

I could not find a logical local source in LA so ordered from the manufacturer, Sure To Grow at:

http://www.cdgrowlight.com/Growers-Shop-By-Brand/Sure-To-Grow/Sure-to-Grow-STG-Storm-Hail

Shipping to CA was $10 for a total of $47 for 2 cu feet.

Nick

It's been 4 days now since they got soaked. SM is down to 1lbs 14oz from 2-6 still retaining 8oz of water over the dry wt of 1-6.

The PET cubes are down to 1-7 1/2 from 2lbs retaining 2 1/2 oz of water over the dry wt of 1-5. They also feel pretty dry.

The cubes dry out much faster as was suspected from the beginning. This is not necessarily a bad thing for quite a few genera but definitely makes them unsuitable for Dracula.

Nick

I'm at one week and don't see any change. I'm optimistic because I expected rapid decline if they were unhappy with the new potting situation. I see a new growth on the Golden Bells starting but that most likely started before i potted it.

So Nick, How about some photos of your collection, sounds like you have some interesting plants.

Sorry on the photos. In regards to how well the plants like it, unless you give them toxic slime, you won't see rapid decline. The trick is new root formation. If after 3 month or so you don't see vigorous new roots one would have to question this stuff. Leaves and flowers follow the roots. I'm going to withhold judgment for the better part of a year. Now that I bought 2 cu ft of the stuff I'll set up parallel plants to see the long-range difference if there is any.

I did the same with shredded redwood. Put identical Masdies next to each other, one in redwood, the other in SM and let them grow for one year. Even though the leaves looked fairly similar, the ones in SM made much better roots so SM definitely got the nod.

Nick

Thanks to you two for being willing to experiment and then sharing your results.

Lumpy, to add to Nick's statements, orchid leaves can look great over several months while they're declining and dying. The good news is it's spring, so you can check for green tips on current roots and for new roots.

Whitecat8

Masdie leaves have always seemed more fragile to me. I've cut off leathery leaves from dends and encyclia before that would stay green and stiff for ages in the compost bin but the masdies I've had would get yellow and spotted seemingly overnight while still on the plant. So after division, shipping and re potting I was expecting them to at least get a little droopy.

Most of the masdies I've tried in the past died within 6 months a few lasted a year or two so for me everyday without decline is a step forward.

Fitting a round peg into a round hole is easy. A square peg into a round hole is a little bit more difficult.

Masdies are easy as long as you give them cool humidity and lots of clean water. If you try to grow them in different conditions you have to do handstands to be successful. Humidity trays, misters, fan, Sparklets water etc.

Good luck.

Nick

The weight of the 2 pots: The PET cubes pot returned to dry wt after 7 days, the SM one still retained 2 1/2 oz of water. If you water once a week, the PET cubes could be used in lieu of bark or coconut. I now have 2 cu ft of them, I'm going to use them and see what happens.

Nick

It's been almost 3 month since I potted some of them up in this stuff and some preliminary report can be given. I have 3 of them where 1/2 of the pot is Sphagnum moss and the other half is PET cubes. Horizontally speaking, not vertical. I looked at all three today and there was active root growth into the moss, none into the PET cubes. They obviously liked the moss better.

Then there are a number in PET cubes only. All of them have root growth of various degrees. Given no choice they seem to accept it. A mixed verdict, I'll continue using it for at least a year and see what the final outcome is. Some of the cubes are still white, others cultivated green algae and are -- drum roll-- green.

Nick

One thing I have noticed is that fungus gnats don't seem to like it. I also am getting algae growth, no sure if I like the green or white better yet. I dont see much root growth but they are still alive and growing which is new for me with masdies.

On the right is Infracta which is in moss the pot sits in the bowl, the water in the bowl is just below the pot. On the left is Vomodo (sp? tag got rubbed away) in a net pot which sits in a vase with some water in the bottom.
{{gwi:150829}}

I tried some with my vanilla the roots did a 360, didnt seem to like it at all.
{{gwi:150830}}

The Phal I planted in it is doing OK, the new roots haven't reached the media yet so I have to wait and see. The rest of the plants have no changes yet.

Do you think the algae growth will be bad for the Masdies in any way?

Definitely need more time for a final conclusion. Could be that some genera will like it, others will not. I don't think the algae is a problem, just a little hard on the eyes.

I have 2 Masdie hybrids named Masd Keiko Komoda http://www.flickr.com/photos/12205793@N04/6837769842/ One of them is bright yellow as shown in the picture, the other is a strong orange. Both labeled the same. Could that be your plant? Leaves look similar. Check the future flowers against that name.

Nick

That must be it, I could make out iko omoda on the tag.

The first new growth on all of the masdies I potted was very week and got stuck in the sheath, the second was normal but a little smaller than the old growth. The Copper Angel is upto 5 new shoots and looks the best so far.

saw on one of the other forums that they had repotted masdies into spagh moss in a net pot then set it onto a small fishbowl so the pot just set on top of the opening, fishbowl had about an inch and half of leca in bottom w/ spagh moss on top of that up to the opening. Plants were all very happy. gb

I think I saw the same thread as you did, thats what got me thinking about this in the first place.

Right now I have 2 in semi hyro pots, 1 in PET fiber the other in sphag. 2 in glass bowls with LECA at the bottom, no net, 1 in PET Fiber, 1 in sphag. 2 in pots suspended in bowls over water, again 1 in PET fiber and 1 in sphag. All of them are in my living room with typical home heat and AC.

Just curious, what temp is typical home heat?

For my house it's around 72 degrees. They are in a bay window so the day time temps get higher and nights get lower. The AC in my living room broke down during a heat wave here last week so it was into the high 80s for a few days. My point is that other than the media and potting style I'm not doing anything special to create an environment for them.

It's been 7 month now and I took a look at the plants in PET fiber. I'd say it's a mixed bag of tricks with about half vigorously rooting but others not. It seems that plants with larger roots eagerly adapted to it but those with fine roots are hanging back.

Plants with the larger roots tend to readily adapt to anything from bark to coconut etc so no real advantage there. I really wanted to use this where Sphagnum Moss is desirable, Masdies, Draculas, Pleuros, Bulbos etc and it is exactly these plants that are hanging back somewhat. I'm not giving up, will look again in 1/2 a year.

Nick