Kelley, Bt 'kurstaki' is a narrow-spectrum bio-insecticide that targets caterpillers and larvae that bother many ornamental and vegetable plants. In a residential landscape and/or home garden, it is often used to control tomato hornworms, tobacco hornworms, cutworms, tomato fruitworms/corn earworms, canker worms, leaf miners and various types of grub worms. It is available in both a liquid form and in a powdered, granular form (Dipel Dust and similar products). I've linked one of the more common Bt Caterpiller killer type products below. Most all of the Bt 'kurstaki' products either say Worm Killer or Caterpiller Killer on the label or have images of caterpillers on the label or both. All Bt products are made of toxins derived from naturally-occurring bacteria. The other species of Bt most commonly used in a home setting are: (1) the 'San Diego' or 'tenebrionis' species-derived products (San Diego is genetically engineered so it cannot be used in Certified Organic operations, but tenebrionis is not genetically-engineered so it can be used in Certified Organic operations) which is used to control beetle larvae, and most often used to control the larval form of the Colorado Potato Beetle; and (2) the 'Israelensis' species, available as a granular product you sprinkle in standing water or as 'mosquito dunks' to drop into water. It controls mosquito larvae. One caution about using Bt 'kurstaki' is that it kills ALL butterfly and moth larvae, so be very careful when applying it so it does not wipe out all your butterflies and moths. Many butterfly gardeners choose not to use Bt 'kurstaki' because they don't want to harm the very butterflies and moths they are trying to attract to their plantings. For webworms, I usually just take a stick (or a long, telescoping pole pruner if the webs are high up in a tree) and break open the web. Once the caterpillars lose the protection of that web, the wild birds here gobble them up. I have a huge bird population here in our rural area, one I have carefully 'cultivated' by feeding them year-round, always providing numerous drinking water sources for them daily and a birdbath as well, and by providing birdhouses for them. If you are in an urban or suburban setting with a smaller population of wild birds, you may not have enough of them around to control the webworms. I think Bt is a wonderful solution if someone needs to control caterpillers, but I don't spray it myself because I like having butterflies and moths around. Some people say you can't grow fruit trees here without spraying for worms, but I've harvested over 350 lbs. of fruit from trees which were not sprayed with anything. Having said that, I don't usually have tent caterpillers (aka webworms) in large nmbers and the few I see (some years I see none) are taken care of by natural predators. I do think some parts of OK have a much more severe problem with webworms than we have here in southcentral OK. Barbara, Believe me, it has not been an easy choice to refrain from spraying insecticial soap or neem oil, and I'm not saying I'd never, ever use either one or both. For example, neem oil can be very useful in flea control, but my dogs usually don't have a big flea or tick problem, so I don't usually use it for that purpose. (I wouldn't hesitate to spray the ground in their dog yard and the fenceline around it if they did have fleas though.) In a 'bad year' I'll spray the dog yard's ground and fenceline with peppermint soap which is a great repellent. Neem is found in many pet products, including flea shampoos, and I have used those tea tree oil flea shampoos on our dogs in a year when there is a heavy infestation of fleas or ticks. (I've also bathed them in Cedarcide, orange oil-based shampoos and peppermint soap in years like that....2007 was one of those years.) Bagworms are very hard to control, but I've only seen them one year since moving here, and never since then, so I don't have to deal with them. I generally ignore leaf miners. I've never had them do enough damage to kill a plant or even to significantly harm one. The kaolin clay products like Surround are very helpful in some instances, but there again I choose not to use them. They make the garden look hideously awful, among other things, and you have to reapply it after rain or overhead watering washes it off the leaves. Kaolin clay reminds me of the old folk remedy of mixing all-purpose flour with water and spraying it on the foliage to keep the hoppers away. I used that in the bad grasshopper years back around 2003 or so, but didn't like the way the garden looked and couldn't tell it made a big dent in the amount of hopper damage I've been seeing. I didn't think it was worth the time I spent spraying. You aren't seeing a large amount of damage from pest insects because some sort of beneficials are eating them. I have seen huge numbers of insects, but not correspondingly high levels of plant damage. Potato beetles were my worst issue, and I just hand-picked them. My regular garden turtle was very frustrated that he was fenced out of the new potato patch area, and once I realized he wanted in there, I opened the gate and let him in and I haven't had to hand-pick CPBs since. Once he picked that area clean, he returned to the regular garden, leaving me to wonder how he 'knew' the CPBs (or, for that matter, the potato plants) were out there in the new area away from the main garden. If you aren't seeing significant levels of lady bugs and dragon flies, that means they've gone someplace else where there are more pest insects to eat. The first few years here, we always had billions of beneficial insects of all kinds. Then, their numbers abruptly dropped and I was sort of panicky, wondering what was 'wrong'. Finally I realized they left because there wasn't enough of a pest insect population to attract them. Now I see them come and go, appearing seemingly out of the blue if a pest population shows up like the aphids that showed up on my sugar snap peas this spring, and then leaving when their work is done. We have many wasps here, probably more than a regular homeowner would be comfortable having around. I am always happy to have them here because they are such great predators, but every time Tim walks out the door, it seems like one stings him (2 or 3 times this week alone). I suspect the many types of wasps are the reason I seldom have problems with caterpillers. You know, logic would tell you that someone with all the nightshade plants I have would have a major tomato/tobacco hornworm problem, but I see, perhaps, 8 or 10 most years and I give the wasps credit for those low numbers. It has taken me a long time to arrive at the point that I seldom rely on any sort of insecticide and there were some hard years when I worried the natural ecosystem would fail, but it never has. Dawn Here is a link that might be useful: Example of a Bt 'kurstaki' product

Skip the urine on the roses, but if you still have to go, make a run out to the compose bins and go there. Then go get some insecticidal soap and spray your roses regularly, unless you have lady beetles. Other wise, the IS should solve your problem. Most of the other things you suggest will serve to bolster your roses own defenses, the neem will help to ward off bugs. The IS will kill the ones that eat the rose leaves. Cheryl

Gardengal, I have known you for years and in fact you and I have had the same mentor to get to where we are! We have a history here, on the Hoya, Cactus, Containers, Rose, Fragrant, Houseplant, and many other forums! Please, for what it's worth, there are members here that far surpass the "mules" as you say that REALLY appreciate the gifts you have to offer including me, I do, and a whole handful that have been nothing but kind and eager to learn, not to mention any names. I agree, there are at time mules here, but then so too at the Cactus Forums and others, a reason why I stopped posting there for a while and many other forums. Promised myself I was not going to give myself that lost opportunity to help others despite what a slight handful might act like or say and that is why I am posting up a storm there again....One thing I did promise myself is that I will never stop being kind or helping those of the general population here or any other place in which the majority far outweigh the few. You and I go way back and I know as you know I do that there are many innocent good hearted ones that watch us through closed doors, hang around but never post, lurk, and even post that truly appreciate all that we do and share. As a plea to you, please don't leave here for the sake of a few, but continue to be a gem here on this forum and the many others that you have made a huge impact on, including on what I know. Sounds good? You of all people I believe will not disappoint nor the many others that truly have a soft spot for you, me just as our mentor Al have never. You and I know he never gives up on the many that DO appreciate good help that many need to know. From Me to you, one member here that has always respected and appreciated your offerings. We need people like you here! )) E- ail anytime if need be mikerno_1@yahoo.com

That’s interesting .. I already have some spinosad but didn’t realise, it is marketed here as a fruit fly control, see the blurb below. Nature’s Way Fruit Fly Control has been included in this range because it’s based on spinosad, the naturally-derived insecticide found in Yates Success. Yates Nature’s Way Fruit Fly Control works by tricking the insect into absorbing the spinosad that’s been combined with an irresistible bait. After she emerges from her pupal case in the soil, the female fly looks to feed on a source of protein before she lays her eggs. When she eats the protein and sugar bait in Nature’s Way Fruit Fly Control, she also ingests a dose of the insecticide, which means she never makes it to the egg-laying stage. Fruit fly baits are nothing new but many have used a hormone that only attracts male flies (they’re the ones that don’t lay the eggs!) or have been based on a nasty chemical. Now Yates Nature’s Way Fruit Fly Control has a low toxic formulation that really works. also found this because spinosad is highly effective against diamondback moth, but because it also controls several other important lepidopteran pests such as heliothis (Helicoverpa spp.), cabbage white butterfly (Pieris rapae), cabbage centre grub (Hellula hydralis) and cabbage cluster caterpillar (Crocidolomia pavonana) at rates which provide growers with excellent value for money. Spinosad is highly active against loopers (Chrysodeixis spp.) and affords some control of cluster caterpillar (Spodoptera litura) and onion thrips (Thrips tabaci). So so if my rose slugs ever start on my buds I’ll use this. Might even do it on the climbing nahema as I can only squish so high! And they do shred the leaves to pieces ...