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Mini Oncidium Dropping Flowers!

Wish
17 years ago

Hi There,

I just purchased my first oncidium at the NY Botanical Garden's Orchid Show. It is a mini "Tom's Beauty" and I absolutely love it! I am virtually new to orchids--I've had Phals in the past but nothing fancier.

Two of the bottom flowers have fallen. Their stems have turned yellow. Is this part of the acclimatizing process? My cultural conditions are 45-55% humidity and about 70 degrees. It is sitting on a pebble tray in a West-facing windowsill which gets bright indirect light and I have a humidifier and mist a couple times a day.

What do oncidiums like? It's got three more buds to open and I have put it under a fluorescent light at night to make them flower since its been so gloomy in the Northeast.

Does anyone have any ideas? How should I treat it? It's about 8 inches tall and is too adorable to lose!

Thanks for any input!

Wish

Comments (21)

  • spiced_ham
    17 years ago

    Its not uncommon for an orchid to start losing flowers when you get it. By the time the newest buds open the oldest flowers are about ready to go and the stress doesn't help. Plants grown and bloomed in low humidity do better than plants grown in high humidity and then moved to low. I call them hard and soft plants.

    The humidifier is good for you and the plant. as long as you are confortable your orchid will be too. Stop misting, it doesn't help and can hurt by over watering the pot and getting water in the nooks and crannies of the leaves where rot starts. Pebble trays don't raise humidity, but do catch drips well.

    Your light sounds good.

    I wouldn't worry, orchids are tough as long as you don't rot them with too much water, and the growing season is right around the corner. Your plant shouldn't need water for a couple of weeks, let the pot dry out pretty well before watering again.

  • claritamaria
    17 years ago

    Spiced Ham
    Isn't it better to take the blooming plant out of its normal light? My friend has had a minnie oncid in bloom since Nov. She has it displayed on the fireplace in a bright room.

    I don't grow minnie's but grow oncids and intergens. If I leave them in their usual place, the blooms fall off within days. If I display them I have better luck but need to improve it.

    After seeing my friend's twinkle in bloom for such a long time, it makes me think about the best way to retain blooms. I see this question a lot but not a lot of specific

    Is it possible for you (and others) to address the best way to keep blooms? Light, fertiliser, watering etc?
    Thank you
    Clara

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  • arthurm
    17 years ago

    There are many different types of "Oncidium" so to give advice we really need to know what sort of Oncidium you have.
    There is no orchid called Tom's Wish registered in the RHS Database, so does the plant label have some other information?

  • spiced_ham
    17 years ago

    Generally you can bring a plant in for display and not shorten the life of the display, but I doubt it would extend it long enough to notice. I don't know for sure though. I do know that when I get blooming plants at Home Depot and bring them back to the windowsill or the greenhouse the flowers don't last as long as if they were grown on the spot. The plants are really pampered in their original nursery.

    Most people (windowsill) have growing light that is pretty far below the top end of what is good for the plant anyway, so changing light is not necessarily going to matter. Mine are in a very bright greenhouse and last a long time. Windowsills and light carts can have stressful microclimates (cold drafts, hotspots, dry spots, car exhaust pollution etc.) so what doesn't matter much for growth can blast buds or blossoms. If you get better results by moving your plants do it. I move plants that are about to bloom to areas of the greenhouse that are more humid and less windy.

    Continue fertilizing as normal, but I don't think fertilizing less will have much of an effect.

  • Wish
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Hi Guys,

    Thanks for the feedback. The orchid is (Rdcm orchidom Outstanding x Onc. Orchidom Tom's Beauty). I don't know what that means exactly but it appears to be a hybrid, no? I wish I knew how to post pictures on this site or else I would!

    I got handouts from the Botanical Garden on Orchid Care and all of them encourage you to use pebble trays to increase humidity. Another lady I ran into today (while I was shopping for more orchids--yikes!) told me not to mist as well. So is the best way a humidifier?

    I understand that some might drop blooms or have bud blast due to the drastic change in cultural conditions i.e. from a greenhouse to a NYC apartment. So is it better to buy less mature plants?

    Upon closer inspection, the oncidium in question has petals that look dessicated--at least the oldest one that is hanging on so precariously by its yellowing stem. Poor thing--alas what to do? How long is the blooming cycle and how many times a year do they send out spikes?

    Thanks again for any input--your responses are appreciated tremendously!

    Wish

  • arthurm
    17 years ago

    You have an orchid that needs special attention. Many have tried and many have failed. In the link are my somewhat out of date culture note re the names. You have a Rodrumnia x Tolumnia and the notes talk about a glasshouse so you will have to do some interpreting.
    But, I'm sure some windowsill growers will add some fine tuning re, indoor culture.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Tolumnia notes

  • spiced_ham
    17 years ago

    For that type of plant it is probably in a small pot with fast draining medium so many people do mist the roots every morning or every other morning but the pot must dry out completely before sundown or the plants tend to rot.

    You will see the humidity tray idea all over the place. You might as well expect the water in the toilet to fog up the bathroom mirror. A little plant sitting on a big tray will be in a zone of higher humidity in a dead still room, but with any height above the tray or air movement the water vapor does not build up.


    That type of orchid is tough. The species in its background often grow on cacti in the wild and they wait out the summer dry season as shriveled yellow leaves, and then revive and grow during hurricaine season that follows. So you might want to avoid babying it. That is how most people kill them.

    I've seen plants so yellow and shiveled in the wild that I could swear they were dead, the only hint of life were the flowers all over the place.

  • Wish
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Perhaps "loving neglect" is more appropriate. The "Orchid Expert" I spoke to at the shop told me that these little guys need less humidity than phals. Also, I got the only one that still had buds--he said it was a better return on my investment. Had I gotten a much more impressive-looking one with all the flowers in bloom, they might have all fallen off! At least, the flowers that are opening now have a better chance to survive--what do you think?

    The leaves are nothing to write home about. They are a bit on the scraggly side, to be honest. Does anyone have any experience with them?

  • arthurm
    17 years ago

    I've got lots of experience with them, but the point i was making is that the notes are written for a glasshouse in Sydney, Australia.
    Thats where the interpretation comes in. You need some extra hints from windowsill/ Under lights growers in northern USA.
    By the way your orchid is now an intergeneric called Zelumguezia. Horrible!!!
    Anyway, take note of what Spiced Ham is saying. These are not orchids from steaming jungles. Try to make sure that they dry between waterings, space out waterings appropriate to your conditions, some filtered sunlight would be good and always water in the morning.

  • claritamaria
    17 years ago

    thanks Spiced_Ham and Arthur. Seems like this question is asked a lot. To move or not to move when in bud/bloom.

    Few weeks ago had a reliable bloomer (Masde) abort for no reason I could see. He is in spike yet again and seems to be progressing normally. The first time 3 florescence total all aborted, this time he has 13 and they appear to be normal. Can't figure it out.

    I am indoor light and window combined. I do think some of the oncids and intergens degrade when left in their "normal" light conditions.

    Spiced_Ham interesting you bring up HD flowers. It seems that when I used to buy those, the blooms lasted longer than one's bought from "credible nurseries". I wonder why that is. I find at my HD, they usually are rescue cases, Over watered rootless messes but the blooms stay around a long time. You think they use glue? ;-)
    Clara

  • Wish
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Hi Guys,

    I'm seriously freaking out. The blooms are falling off one by one. The petals look dessicated even though I have the humidity up. Is this part of the process? Will it ever adjust?? This type was not supposed to crave a lot of humidity--as I was told.

    As Clara said, maybe I should keep it away from the light? It's on the windowsill over a pebble tray (interesting comment about toilets, spiced ham) with a fluorescent light at night to encourage the buds to bloom. What am I doing wrong??

  • salvialvr
    17 years ago

    I grow Tolumnias, Rodrigezias, and oncidiums but haven't had any that were hybrids but that shouldn't matter in this case. Some of my Rods are very short bloomers often losing the first flowers before the last buds open, but my Tols usually keep thier flowers for a couple of weeks after the last buds open.
    I wouldn't be too concerned about the flowers at this time though. The biggest problem I see is the condition of the plant itself. Have you checked the roots yet? There shoud be a lot of White roots throughout the medium. I've found that mounting these gys is the best way to grow them. It allows the roots to dry very quikly but also makes it eadsy to mist the roots on a very regular schedual.
    You say you have a flourescent light on the plant but you don't mention how bit the light is or how close it is to the plant. I grow all of mine in Bright Cattaleya light levels about 4 inches below my CFL bulbs. They love it there, Putting out several new growths per year and the spikes that go with them. If your Orchids takes after the Tolumnias the most then it should rebloom from the old spike several times a year before the spike turns yellow and dies. THe most I've gotten was 8 branching reblooms off of a single spike. And I leave mine under the bright lights all the time.
    I sronly suggest that you mount your new orchid and give it Lots of light, this should help to bring it around pretty soon. If you can do this eventually the leaves should plump back up. The yellow ones will probably fall off but new growth should start soon if you are giving it enough light and watering it correctly. Lightly Fertilize it once a week and use distilled water or RO water the rest of the time as many of the Tolumnias can't handle salt build-up very well. Often times the Tolumnias I buy look horrible soon after I get them untill they get used to thier new home but with the proper care they recover fairly quikly and thrive. I hope that some of this will help, and if you have any other questions feel free to email me and I'll do the best I can to answer them for you. (huntaustx@yahoo.com)
    Adam

  • howard_a
    17 years ago

    When the original poster said the spike was turning yellow that was a sign that the unopened buds would either never open or have a short life. Why the spike aborted I cannot know but it could have been due to some trauma suffered during the trip home. However, it is essential that the o.p. create a stable growing situation that includes a window supported by one or more compact flourescent lights and otherwise has reasonable humidity and temperature excursions. Quite possibly the spike was too close to the light and got fried. While blooming the lights aren't neccessary but if used should be kept far from the actual spikes.

    H

  • arthurm
    17 years ago

    The mix of species in this intergeneric and selection of clones should make this orchid easier to grow than some of the species.

    I only water my collection once a week in winter and always in the morning of a day that promises to be sunny. So that translates to misting or watering in the early morning just after your lighting system comes on.

    I imagine that the lights will warm up the leaves and imitate what happens on a sunny day where the wild ancestors grew.

    These orchids are adapted to survive dryness by absorbing any dew that forms during the night. The thick triagular leaves say "adapted to drought" .

    The temperature range in my glasshouse where they are growing in winter is
    Min. 5C to 10C
    8;00am 18 to 20C (after heating glasshouse for several hours)
    Max 20 to 26C
    Cattleya light levels
    gentle air movement 24/7
    The minimum (within reason) is not that important. The drying and the daily lift in temperature are.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Tolumnia wall

  • Wish
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Hi Guys,

    Thanks so much for all the helpful feedback. As I mentioned before, it's not the spike that turned yellow but the FLOWER STEM. And I have not check the roots. I will and report as soon as possible.

    On another note, I just bought a phal doritis this past Tuesday and by Friday, most of the flowers had fallen! I checked the roots tonight at my girlfriend's suggestion and they were all mushy!! I bought it Home Depot and am wondering if anyone has ever returned an orchid there. Does anyone know their policy?

    As for the cultural conditions of the mini Oncidium, it's about 5 inches from the light and the humidity is about 45-55% with a pebble tray and humidifier. I also have an odontoglossum-oncidium hybrid and a white phal that are doing just great so it can't be just a bad environment....or can it??

    Adam, by the way, what is RO water? Thanks for the positive advice! More than anything, this forum brings hope and quells any anxiety at the formidable task or rearing these lovely species...

  • salvialvr
    17 years ago

    R O is short for Reverse Osmosis. Its a process that removes almost all substances from water leaving it about 98% pure H2O. You'll come to learn that many tap water supplies have a high Dissolved solids content which Orchids hate .
    5 inches from the light sounds about right unless the light is too small. You never mentioned what type of Flourescent light you are using so I'm assuming you have either t8 or t12 bulbs (the long type).
    Over all I think your Orchid was just coming to the end of it's blooming cycle and the flower drop is normal. When all the flowers drop cut the spike just below the lowest point of attachement ( the lowest flower stem) and give it time it might send out a branch with a few more buds on it. If the spike dries out then you'll just have to wait till the next time it spikes.
    I also responded to your post about your HD Orchid so I won't repeat myself here about it.
    Good Luck, Adam

  • Wish
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Hi There,

    The type of fluorescent is the screw-in kind in a shop light. I only have one stem so I don't know where exactly I should cut it off when the flowers have all died down. I went to the Botanical Gardens again and noticed a plant much like mine inside a glass-enclosed terrarium. I was told at the shop that it didn't need as much humidity but I am beginning to suspect that it might be a reason for the flowers crisping up at the bottom. Why else would they put it in a terrarium?

    Also Adam, do you feed all your orchids with RO water? And how do I make it or come by it? Sometimes I used boiled water mixed with fertilizer but I don't think its the same thing.

    Thank you for such insightful input!

    All the best,

    Wish

  • arthurm
    17 years ago

    Wish, now you are getting boxed up with water. For RO read distilled water. Your water might be fine. Go to the search box and put in Water Quality and read the stuff in the posts.

    Go back and read all the posts again. Many people try these orchids and fail because they kill them with kindness. Overwatering and the failure to understand the wet dry cycle is the greatest cause of death.

    The Genera involved in making your orchid are Tolumnia, Zelenkoa and Rodriguezia.

    Just read this little extract about Zelenkoa onusta (Oncidium onustum).
    " The species is found in very dry regions of Ecuador and Peru....."

  • salvialvr
    17 years ago

    Wish, Arthurm is corect about the dry part, these little orchids don't need a lot of humidity. I raise mine in a terrarium but thats because they are in a house where the Centrall air or heat is always on and the humidity gets really low in here. I'm sure they don't have to be in the terrarium but most of my other orchids need more humidity so I just keep em all together.
    You can pick up RO or distilled water at most major grocery chains and many aquarium store as well. I usually mix half RO with half tap water because I don't want to have to buy special Fertilizers for RO. About once a month I water with pure RO to flush out any mineral or salt buid up that may have accumulated. You really do need to read up on water quality and check with your municipality about the Total dissolved solids etc in you water supply. I know a few people who have great water right out of the tap so they don't have to do anything special.
    Also, I'm almost certain that there is nothing to worry about with your flowers, it was probably just time for them to go. Tolumnia flowers last a few weeks but they don't last for months like a phal. I get between 4 and 6 weeks from a cluster of blooms then it takes about 3 or 4 weeks for the next branch to star blooking for me. depending on the individual plant. As the flowers get close to dropping they often start to look dry but that just typical flower aging.
    Try not to worry too much, Orchids are supposed to be a relaxing and enjoyable hobby. Just relax, read up on your orchids and do what you can to give them a good home. some times it takes awhile for an orchid to adjust to a new home and they can look a little rough during that adjustment but the Tolumnias are tough little guys and relly don't need all that much in the way of work on your part. Read up on mounted Orchids, Tolumnias really love to be mounted and will thrive for you with very little care at all if you maount them and mist the roots to water them.

    Adam

  • Wish
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Ok, I should have listened my my own instincts than to the guy in the shop. I ultimately chose this plant over another one with very healthy and symmetrical leaves because the guy said I'd be better off with a plant with buds than one that had all bloomed. But I wasn't impressed with its leaves at the time. It looked bumpy with striations and generally unhealthy. When I pointed it out, he said "it's probably gotten cold but it hasn't dropped the flowers--I'd get this one." So I did.

    Well, the flowers dropped anyway when I brought it home and the leaves are looking more ragged--lumpy with blotches of yellow. Could it be a virus? In any case, I spent $22 on this little thing!

    How can I revive it? It's got one lone flower and looks so bad! And each time I look at it, I only get mad at myself.

  • arthurm
    17 years ago

    When i'm at an orchid show i never, ever sell any of my Tolumnia to newbies, but i'm not out to make money. $22US is expensive.
    How can you revive it? Read all the posts above on how to care for it and provide the conditions it needs. The damaged leaves will never recover but if you can provide the conditions it likes it will grow a new leaf fan.
    If it goes to orchid heaven, put it down to experience. Part of the learning process. Very unlikely to be a virus. Cold and wet with not enough light at the end of a Northern Winter is my diagnosis.

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