Preparing Unhealthy Soil for Garden Border & Lawn - Please Help

13 years ago

I'm new to this forum and to gardening but I want to do it right so your experience will be most welcome. I'm building a border and found the following recipe in a book and would welcome some feedback:

"For each 100 square feet of new garden space:

Plant Tone 5-10 pounds

Rock phosphate 5-10 pounds

Greensand 5-10 pounds

Gypsum 5-10 pounds

Osmocote (8 months) 2 pounds

Till all these ammendments plus organic matter (I presume this means compost?) into the soil, rake smooth and your bed is ready to be planted."

Now some background on my soil. Soil test in 2009 indicated dense/heavy clay > 40%, pH 7.7-7.8, N Med/Low, P High, K Med/Low, Volatile Organic Content 1.5%, Humus Med/Low, Salts 92ppm.

The recommendation for the lawn was to hose spray alfalfa meal and gypsum. Instead I added mucho compost and spread evenly. Last year I simply aerated and fertilized with Doctor Earth. I just fertilized again with Doctor Earth and may aerate again. Should I maintain now with just Doctor Earth or will a mixture of fish emulsion and liquid seaweed every 30 days help? This too was recommended in 2009.

Now back to the beds. Last fall I laid down cardboard and layered peat moss and compost on top. I already have an Acer Palmatum 'Bloodgood' and plan to add Acer Truncatum (Shantung maple), Port orford lawsonia 'Blue Surprise' w Guardian Stock, and Thuja 'Emerald Green.' Also perennials, shrubs and possibly Erica as yet to be decided.

I notice moss growing in the bed and areas where water pools. I did a drainage test by digging a hole 1 feet deep and filling it with water. After one hour there was about 3 inches left. Filled a second time and after one hour there was about 1.5 inches left.

Two more questions, will Doctor Earths 4-4-4 work as well as the Plant Tone and If I could purchase only 3 books and 2 magazine subscriptions to learn more about responsible gardening, which would you suggest? I know this seems like a lot but I really want to know. Thanks!!

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (5)

Dan _Staley (5b Sunset 2B AHS 7)
13 years ago
1. What is 'unhealthy' about the soil?
2. What did your soil test this year indicate after you added amendments?
3. What did your soil test this year state about rate of application of x to correct y?
4. What deficiencies did this...'recipe' claim to correct, and do they match the deficiencies in your soil?

IOW: get a soil test. Amend per recommendations, not some recipe. Voila.

Dan
dicot
13 years ago
It would help if you said where you live and if you had any photos of your yard. IMO, for the border, lose the gypsum, lose the osmocote, lose the phosphate, lose the greensand, use the Dr Earth OR Plant Tone as recommended, and get as much FULLY composted organic matter as you yard can take and mix it in with your heavy clay soils when they are moist, but not soaking wet.

You mainly need nitrogen for the grass, fish emulsion & alfalfa meal should be fine. Gypsum is only good if you have sodic soils (sodium carbonate) and 95% of the time it's a waste, imo. But if you're in the desert or the SE, it might not be.

Your pH is slightly high, I'd treat it with compost, which is slightly acidic, or add some iron sulfate in veggie and landscaped beds.
Related Discussions
Which way is REALLY right -- preparing new shrub/tree border
Q
Comments (22)
The reason(s) amending of soils in small areas is counterproductive do not vary with the type of soil. Sandy, silty or clay-like, it makes no difference. You do not want to install plants in pockets, strips or zones of one soil texture surrounded by soil of a different texture, as this sets them up for likely problems with how water moves into and out of the soil around their roots. In the case of plants to be left in place for many years (or indefinitely) without lifting and re-planting there is no point in incorporating organic soil texture modification materials (bark, compost, peat...) even if the bed is large enough to minimize or eliminate water movement problems for most of the plants - once the amendments decompose the effects they produce will be lost. Inorganic amendments like perlite and sand do not decompose but enormous amounts of these have to be added to change a heavy soil into a light one. And if too much is added then a droughty and infertile (leaching) situation may be produced, that may be more limiting than a heavy clay-like soil. The most straightforward approach is to choose plants adapted to the existing soil type and plant these in wide, shallow holes dug out of that, loosening it over a wide area beforehand and mulching well afterward. The most satisfactory mulch for woody plants appears to be clean wood chips. If arborist wood chips available nearby tend to have bramble stem sections or other undesirable material mixed in then play chips from a local dealer may be the best bet. Ones we obtain here as cedar play chips are very nice but have become quite pricey, as far as it goes.
...See More
Late start, New garden location soil info please
Q
Comments (8)
Well, your situation is neither unique nor a show-stopper. There are two ways of going about solving the problem, and hatchjon has suggested one: ammending with organic matter. The reason some suggest this is because they have been told, or read, or observed through experience that organic matter improves tilth, drainage, and fertility. While this is not incorrect, it is not necessarily the case for all soils in all locations. For instance, adding organic matter to a sandy soil will do little to help because a full season of irrigation and rain will wash away most of the OM ammendment (unless we are talking about over 50% additions, but that would be a few truckloads). With heavy clay, organic matter ammendments are going to have difficulty penetrating the clay, and will likely suffer the same problems as with the sand. If you are blessed with a sandy-loam, or a sandy-clay soil, then yes, generous amounts of organic matter will make a difference in the long run. I say in the long run, because you will need to add generous amounts of compost/OM each year for the first 3 to 5 years. The reason being that as the OM is broken down, it is carried into the subsoil by erosion and by soil organisms (including worms). This does create a better tilth in theory, but in practice those yards of compost that you added last year will be so dispersed through the large volume of soil in various strata that it will seem to have made little progress. Each year, adding a not insignificant amount of OM, you will see some progress. Finally, after 3 to 5 years, you will probably stabilize the soil at around 3-5% OM level, with a reasonable improvement in the soil structure. If you can wait and have the patience (and the time to till in a few yards of compost every year) then by all means go ahead. If you can't, there is an easier solution, albeit more expensive and less "romantic" - have a dumptruck dump half a dozen yards of sandy-loam triple-mix garden soil onto your plot, and build some raised beds. They don't need to be the fancy boxed beds, and they don't need to be very deep. 8-10 inches should suffice. Then, at the beginning and end of each year, you mix in a few inches of compost/OM into the surface. Combine that with a good, complete organic fertilizer and you will have some soil to be proud of. The maintenance of that soil is important, but that is another discussion altogether. Best of luck! Michael Here is a link that might be useful: Complete Organic Fertilizer Recipe
...See More
New to Veg. Gardening, Preparing for Next Year
Q
Comments (7)
I put down cardboard (or newspaper at least 6 sheets thick and overlapping) and then mulch over that anytime during the year before the ground freezes. Then in the spring it is good for digging into. I have been doing this for years. I till pretty much the whole garden once a year, usually in spring to incorporate whatever grew and whatever I want to add (not much, usually). I only till about 3" deep, max. I have not had a big problem with weeds because a) I plant rather closely, kind of pushing the envelope in terms of spacing because I want the plants to shade out weeds and lessen the need for mulching and b) I hoe. Hoeing is not at all bad if you have a good hoe. I use a stirrup hoe. I actually enjoy cutting their little heads off.:) I don't use raised beds, either. To me that is just extra work and money. I use regular 4' wide rows with 18" between, each row having a double length of soaker hose. Works good for me, especially because my beds can follow the curves of the sun in my yard instead of being straight, but lots of people love those raised beds. Some people would object to my practice because I don't use a lot of mulch once the stuff is planted. I hoe instead ('dust mulch'). It depends on how much water is in the soil and what is growing there. I have a bed that is pretty dry with no mulch that works well because the plants there like that--they're mostly Artemisias, although I also have a bunch of peppers there that are doing well. Those I have mulched with composted manure. Then I have most of the veggies in beds very thickly planted that get a lot of water and no mulch because they don't need mulch--they create their own shade. I keep the space in between rows very small, like 12"-18". I have also tried living mulches, like letting wild portulaca grow and weeding out everything else in between my tomatoes. This worked pretty well, but I think it was actually more labor intensive than having no mulch at all, because I had to hand pull the weeds instead of hoeing. For watering, I use soaker hoses and water only in the early morning, so it has time to soak in before it gets hot and is wasted in evaporation. Yes, people say you have to cover them. I have never covered them and in my highest watering months I think my water bill has increased maybe five bucks. Covering them for me just gets in the way of hoeing.:) I have clay and I think it is great for growing. Everyone complains about it, but I have gardened in sand and I would take clay any day. Clay has tons of nutrients in it. As long as it doesn't get sopping or get hard on top, it is good to grow in, in my experience. I guess what you can use the city compost for would depend on what it was made of. It must be grass and yard waste, no? It might have broadleaf herbicides in it, which wouldn't be good for your garden. I usually get composted manure instead, although the local prison has a program where they give away compost made out of food scraps. I haven't gotten around to trying that yet, but you might see if your local prison, if you have one, has such a program. I think that would be quite safe and you sure can't beat the price. I know what you mean about next year. I am already planning my next-year garden. Definitely going to be more peppers!
...See More
experienced gardeners please advise -- amending soil when plantin
Q
Comments (2)
The good news is your shrubs have rewarded all your hard work by sending out an extensive root system and being so healthy. Large shrubs send out a likewise root system. I plant around shrubs all the time and it would be virtually impossible not to sever some feeder roots since they reside primarily in the top 6 inches of soil, but I try to do minimal damage. It doesn't kill the plant if you cut off a few - they are short lived compared to the anchor roots which you really want to avoid. However, I only use small to medium size shrubs in my beds. I don't want to deal with dense root systems which is what you are running into. The bad news is that it's very difficult to plant within a closely planted shrub border because of those roots. Consider creating a raised bed for your perennials to avoid competition with the shrubs altogether. It would make gardening a lot easier and you wouldn't have to worry about damaging too many of the roots. I'm not surprised you found as many as you did. A 15 foot tall shrub gets at least 15 feet wide at maturity. The roots are still growing even if you prune the shrubs, so I always use their mature size as my guide. A raised bed solves many problems because you will save from digging out all the soil, not damage the roots and, remember, once you topdress the bed with organic matter, not only are you feeding your plants, but also the shrubs! So you will be rewarded with even more roots. That's why a raised bed is the easiest solution for all concerned.
...See More
feijoas
13 years ago
Are you sure 'they' aren't selling you something?
Unless your soil test is clear about you needing things like calcium, phosphorus, iron, boron, etc, etc, the only things I'd add are compost, UCG, grass clippings and manure (if my phosphorus levels aren't high).
It's worth finding out what these things are for. Please don't just buy stuff: nearly everything can be got for free and it'll be better for you and your garden in the long run.
Danell Hiltz
Original Author
13 years ago
Thanks everyone, guess I'm reading the wrong books. I'll get another soil sample and order yards of compost with plenty of organic matter.

Do I need to do anything about the moss, and ideally what number values should I be looking for in pH, NPK, organic content, humus and salts? Is that a dumb question?
Kimmsr
13 years ago
Moss most often grows in soil lacking adequate amounts of organic matter. While some will maintaqin, vigorously, that moss grows on acidic, compacted soils in the shade I have moss growing on crushed dolomitic lime in my driveway in full sun as well as loose sand, again in full sun, out back where the rains drain so quickly nothing else will grow. Once you get the soil well amended with organic matter the moss will disappear as it does for me.
In addition to a good, reliable soil test (your state universities Cooperative Extension Service can help with that) you may want to dig in with these simple soil tests,
1) Soil test for organic matter. From that soil sample put enough of the rest to make a 4 inch level in a clear 1 quart jar, with a tight fitting lid. Fill that jar with water and replace the lid, tightly. Shake the jar vigorously and then let it stand for 24 hours. Your soil will settle out according to soil particle size and weight. For example, a good loam will have about 1-3/4 inch (about 45%) of sand on the bottom. about 1 inch (about 25%) of silt next, about 1 inch (25%) of clay above that, and about 1/4 inch (about 5%) of organic matter on the top.

2) Drainage. Dig a hole 1 foot square and 1 foot deep and fill that with water. After that water drains away refill the hole with more water and time how long it takes that to drain away. Anything less than 2 hours and your soil drainsÃ¯Â¿Â½ too quickly and needs more organic matter to slow that drainage down. Anything over 6 hours and the soil drains too slowly and needs lots of organic matter to speed it up.

3) Tilth. Take a handful of your slightly damp soil and squeeze it tightly. When the pressure is released the soil should hold together in that clump, but when poked with a finger that clump should fall apart.

4) Smell. What does your soil smell like? A pleasant, rich earthy odor? Putrid, offensive, repugnant odor? The more organic matter in your soil the more active the soil bacteria will be and the nicer your soil will smell.

5) Life. How many earthworms per shovel full were there? 5 or more indicates a pretty healthy soil. Fewer than 5, according to the Natural Resources Conservation Service, indicates a soil that is not healthy.
to see how you are doing.

Preparing Unhealthy Soil for Garden Border & Lawn - Please Help

Comments (5)

Dan _Staley (5b Sunset 2B AHS 7)

dicot

Related Discussions

feijoas

Danell Hiltz
Original Author

Kimmsr

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Preparing Unhealthy Soil for Garden Border & Lawn - Please Help

Comments (5)

Dan _Staley (5b Sunset 2B AHS 7)

dicot

Related Discussions

feijoas

Danell HiltzOriginal Author

Kimmsr

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Danell Hiltz
Original Author