Dennis, it sounds as if both of your peaches are doing well. Just remember to spray in the spring and summer for insects, particularly borers; they love peach trees. I never heard of Frost peach, so I will look it up. Good luck!

Dennis,

I can't remember how much rain you said you get, but note that peaches are easy to over-water. One of the symptoms of over-watering is late breaking dormancy (they just sit there in the ground). Sometimes new trees just sit in the ground anyway, so it's not necessarily a sign of too much water, but it can be.

Another thing to keep watch for is bacterial spot, if you have humid conditions. I'd expect Frost peach to get it. White Lady is listed as somewhat resistant to it, so your probably OK on that one.

Lastly, if your Springs are cool and wet, you'll need to spray for peach leaf curl (in the dormant season.) Frost peach is supposed to be resistant to leaf curl, so you don't have to spray it for that.

Dennis:

Would you mind posting the temperatures where you are. Just the mean high and low daily temperatures for the months that are frost free. Unless you are in a very favorable part of Finland I wonder if you have enough heat to ripen those peaches.

MrsG47 hi

Good to hear you think mine peach trees are doing well. I guess i need to look about those diseases, but i think i need not spray now, winter is coming now. You said summer and spring, i have read here before leaf comes is right time to spray. Am i right i can wait to next spring before spraying? I haven't looked much information about in to those diseases. Thanks of hoping me to luck with mine peach trees.

Olpea hi

I said i gave 30 liters after planting to mine White Lady peach variety, which is 8 U.S.A. gallon. Thanks of information about over watering, i gave it water because peach tree could then root before winter. Didn't think that dormancy breaking thing. Here is advice to give good amount water after planting plants, so plants can establish themselves. About bacterial spot, Adams county had bacterial spot ratings. I have looked little bit information in internet about this disease. It seems it need humid condition to develop with 50 cm yearly rainfall. When this disease form? I don't know if we have this disease. What temperature it requires? Or only humid weather? I think i haven't heard this disease here. I think i have read of peach leaf curl. I have read most peach varieties are suspectible it.

Fruitnut hi

I have think about this peach ripening thing. I think we are 1 month behind of Michigan. Adams county nursery in Pennsylvania have Red Haven peach ripen on first day of august. I remember peach tree flowering Michigan or some that area in middle of april. Here apple tree flower late may, pear tree 1 week earlier than apple and i have read peaches bloom 1 week before pear that would be then to be middle of may. That is 1 month behind Michigan. If we add that 1 month later of ripening time we would get first day of september for Red Haven day for here. I have pear tree variety Aunen paaryna and it ripens here middle of september. So that makes Red Haven ripening time earlier. White Lady ripens little later than Red Haven according to Adams county nursery site. I have looked that ripening thing in U.S.A. and Italy site when i looked varieties. This seems to me O.K. that it Red Haven would ripen enough early. I think longer days give some ripening time back to me. I mean longer days let plants have more time for photosynthesis. I have tried to find fruit plants which U.S.A. have and we have so i could see difference in ripening time. U.S.A. have Lapins sweet cherry variety, Michigan ripen it late july, we have it here and ripening time is late august from shop internet site. Here is same 1 month difference. That makes me think Red Haven might be O.K. here. White Lady is little later as i said, but not much later so it might be O.K. White Lady variety is not late peach, there is other peach varieties which are later than this peach. Also you don't know if you don't try. I had one book about growing grapes which had about that ripening thing and longer days advantage, but i don't have that book right now. I need to go to libraty to get it.

dennis:

It's not just about days to maturity. Many fruits like peaches/nectarine, Japanese plums, figs, grapes, and others only achieve good eating quality with adequate heat during the growing season. Adequate heat being 30C average highs for several months. I doubt Finland is that warm.

What you could do is put a poly covered high tunnel over your peach. That might do the job if the nights aren't too cold.

You could also compare your climate to England, there peaches can only be grown in a hothouse or on a south wall.

Scott

I'm in PEI, Canada, and 30 degrees doesn't happen here. PEI is in the Gulf of St Laurence. It does limit the variety of peaches here, but Reliance ripens to juicy perfection here, low heat units not withstanding. It's an end of September peach here, sometimes a week earlier. Redhaven gets the peach leaf curl, or even shoot curl in a bad year. Some of the seedlings I have from grocery store peaches don't get the leaf curl, and if they ripen peaches with viable seeds, I'll get a landrace going of peaches that can take damp cold. The Reliance seeds are stratifying now, so if the grocery store peaches are too late to mature fruits with good seed, the Reliance may provide the needed resistance to the fungus for leaf curl. Dennis, could you do that too? Start peaches from seeds off your peaches that you now have, or from seeds from peaches purchased in the store? My sister in law sent me seeds for Father Davids Peach, a very hardy wild peach. I might have to freeze pollen from it, because it blooms so early, but it would be good to breed into the domestic ones to increase hardiness.

Jocelyn, people have tried breeding prunus davidiana (the species that is called Father Davids Peach) with regular peaches in the past and did not get very far -- it is inedible so that is a bad starting point. The seedlings of store is a better idea, with enough of them you may get one that likes the damp cold weather.

Scott

"When this disease form? I don't know if we have this disease. What temperature it requires? Or only humid weather?"

Dennis,

Bac. Spot forms early in the season. It starts to develop before you see holes or spots on the leaves, or spots on the fruit. It requires warm humid conditions to form. Windy conditions also aid in the development of the disease. Micro damage on the leaves from wind allow more entry points for the disease.

West Coast peach varieties seem to have less immunity to this disease. Occasionally a West Coast variety like White Lady will have some resistance to it. When a variety is commercially viable in the West Coast (U.S.) and is discovered to have some resistance to bac. spot and brown rot, it is generally planted in the East (U.S.) as well.

I have currently have two varieties that show bad symptoms of bac. spot. One gets bac. spot so bad, the fruit cracks from it. This summer I sprayed those two trees numerous times with an antibiotic (Flame Out) in an attempt to get a higher percentage of marketable fruit. It worked, but all the spraying isn't worth it. I will eventually replace those two varieties.

Thanks Scott.

Jocelyn

Fruitnut hi

I went to library to look that book. Book said in Hungary grapes bud swelling to flowering takes 10-11 weeks, here it takes about 8 weeks. In spring difference is 4-5 weeks, when flower emerge difference is 2-3 weeks. In Hungary same variety grapes are few weeks earlier ripe than here. Time from flowering to ripe grapes takes less time here. That book said. That i meant when i said about long day thing. I think we don't reach that high.

Scottfsmith hi

I think i have looked Great Britain peaches in past. But i think Great Britain might have colder summer, Great Britain is surrounded by water, it might limit daily high temperature.

Jocelynpei hi

Do what? Buy peaches peach from shop and put seed in ground? I have read peaches don't come true from seed. I haven't did things that way.

Olpea hi

O.K. for explanation. Yes i have read too that California peach varieties are suspectible of bacterial spot. Good to know that if peach variety has resistance for bacterial spot it is tested in eastern U.S.A. Adams county said White Lady variety has performed well throughout eastern production areas. You said you have 2 peach variety which got bacterial spot. Are those western U.S.A. varieties? Scottfsmith is in Maryland U.S.A., which is eastern U.S.A. You are in Kansas U.S.A., which about middle of U.S.A. Do you grow eastern varieties or western varieties? As you said western varieties are more suspectible of bacterial spot, do you need resistance of bacterial spot? Did you have just bad weather to get bacterial spot or do you get usually bacterial spot?

You are right, peaches do not come true from seed. They do usually have good peaches though. I am hoping for something earlier than the store peaches and with some resistance to peach leaf curl if pollinated by a resistant veariety.. I'll have to hand pollinate when they do bear as peaches often self pollinate....I'll just snip off the anthers and bag the blossum clusters before pollination. I don't get a lot of good weather after the end of September here, so later than reliance might not get to ripen fruits. Some years yes, other years we will get storms to tear off some of the leaves and damage the fruit. Most years we have no killing frosts till November, but a good north wind can fix that in a hurry, so it's a matter of chance. I don't usually plant the peach seeds in the ground because the mice at too many. I usually put them in a bag of damp soil in the fridge and crack the stones the end of March, so they will sprout faster. Just pot them up as they sprout and grow in a sunny window till it's time to harden them off and plant outside.

Dennis, I checked some degree day data and you are right, you have a warmer summer than England. But its much shorter, there are only 3 non-cold months for you as opposed to the 5 or so in England. So it may be the most important thing is to get an early ripening peach. I would recommend you go to degreedays.net and compare your cooling degree days with someplace you know peach ripening dates for. When I do that compared to me I get your May is roughly like my March, your June like my April, your July is like my May, and then your summer is over - your August is like my October. So, you would need peaches that ripen for me in late May or early June if you were to get fruit, but my earliest peaches are not ripe until July.

Scott

"You said you have 2 peach variety which got bacterial spot. Are those western U.S.A. varieties?"

Dennis,

Currently, one is a western variety and one was developed in Arkansas. The latter variety is surprising since Arkansas gets a lot of rain and humidity. The variety is noted however as being susceptible to bac. spot by the breeder.

I've had another western variety I pulled out that showed significant bac. spot.

"Scottfsmith is in Maryland U.S.A., which is eastern U.S.A. You are in Kansas U.S.A., which about middle of U.S.A. Do you grow eastern varieties or western varieties?"

The U.S. can be divided roughly in half (east-west) by what is called the Continental Divide, which follows the Rocky mountain range.

The significance of this is that states east of the divide get lots of rain and humidity, while those west are more arid and desert like. There are numerous exceptions to this rule. For instance land within about 300-400 miles east of the Divide is still dry, even though it's east of the Divide. This is because it's in the "rain shadow" of the mountain range. Texas and parts of Oklahoma are dry, and extreme northern states have parts that are dry, even though they are east of the Divide.

Kansas is east of the Divide but is dry in the western part of the state. As you move east in the state, it becomes more humid with more rainfall. I live almost on the Kansas/Missouri border and close enough to the Kansas and Missouri rivers that this area gets abundant rainfall and humidity. This makes excellent conditions for bac. spot.

On susceptible varieties, we get bac. spot every year. Spraying for it is not a good long term solution because it takes so many sprays. Plus there are plenty of resistant varieties out there, so there is no need to plant susceptible ones if you are in a climate where bac. spot is a problem.

Thanks for sharing this valuable thing. I like it.

Jocelynpei hi

You don't have peach varieties in shop as you trying to grow peaches from seed? I think it is cheaper to grow peaches from seed than buyin plant. I think it is good idea grow early ripening variety in northern places.

Scottfsmith hi

I think you missed something. I haven't checked Great Britain weather, but was thinking using common sense that Great Britain might have colder summer because it is surrounded by water.

Internet site you said is used for housing heating and cooling purposes. Why you would you use that for comparision? I don't know what calculating you used for that comparision, but i have something to say about growing season.

Let's don't get doubtful, it is good thing to try grow peaches. You don't know if it works for you if you don't try. I think there is not much of certainty of gardening, gardening is results of many things. I meant there is many factors which might have some influence on the results.

You said we have 3 non cold months compared to 5 months in Great Britain. You didn't said what is your determination of cold month. I have said earlier early ripening peach variety might be good, so peach tree can harden for winter. I didn't said it is most important thing as you said.

I think it is not good idea to use that data for gardening. It is not mentioned to use for gardening purposes. I use www.wunderground.com internet site where i found temperature data (If you do not like current wunderground site, you can use old classic wunderground using this address classic.wunderground.com). They also have growing degree days, base is 50 which mean daily high temperature + daily low temperature / 2 - 50 F, if result is negative, then that day degree days is 0. Temperature is fahrenheit degree days in those calculations. You might know that already but i just said it for making it right.

Now your month calculation. This don't make sense for me. I have looked ripening times when i looked where to get peach trees (It took me quite long to find one, i saw quite many ripening calendar when i tried to find peach variety if you remember mine postings about peach varieties.).

You show we are 2 months behind you, i have come to think i am 1 month behind Michigan or Pennsylvania. You might be little earlier as you are more southern than those states. You said mine june is like your april. Again i don't know what you compared for. I think there is something wrong with your calculation. You said i would need june peaches if i were to get peach. I think i don't agree with you. You said your earliest peaches are not ripe until july.

One thing first, thank you of your peach report, which you told here. I read that one, i think you have chance to choose peach varieties as your growing season is warmer and you have better variety selection than i have. I think i don't have much to comment on that, but i saw you could describe peach flavors, which might not been alwayss easy as people taste vary, just remember peach taste can vary from year to year as weather vary year to year.

Red Haven peach ripen about first august in southern Pennsylvania, which would make here first of september if we count difference about 1 month coparing for Michigan. You didn't said what that your earliest peach variety was.

I think the problem you didn't took in calculatition is that plants grow faster in longer day weather. I mean that here in summer sunset is later and sunrise is earlier than yours in Maryland. This means day length is longer here than in Maryland. Photoperiod time is so longer here than Maryland. This also means that plants go faster for ripening. I meant faster, when it is counted in days.

O.K. i think i need to take imaginery example. If in Maryland peaches flower in february, (It might be too early, but let's take it as a example.) and ripens july. July is seventh and february is second months, so difference is five months. If peaches start growing early, lack of sunlight reduce the speed to the ripening. Progress to ripening is slow first because reduced amount of sunlight, it can get faster as days get longer. Here let's say peach flower in may and peach ripen in september. May is fifth month and september is ninth month, so difference is four months. 1 Month shorter than in Maryland.

We have longer days here so plants can do photoperiod longer. I think we can have many hours longer days here in summer than in Maryland. I think this longer days advantage give us back some of growing season thing, if compared to warmer weather places. If peaches are like grapes difference in flowering time is longer than it is in ripening time, because this long day advantage (According to one grape growing book here in Finland).

If we accept that daily low temperature is reached little bit after sunrise, then here temperature have less time to drop than in Maryland because sunrise is earlier here than in Maryland. It can make difference smaller, but don't take it out if compared to warmer weather. So you would still get peaches earlier.

Grape growing book said assimilation is fastest little bit cool about 20 celsius. So Finland summer months average temperature would be optimal for many plants growing. That was in this book. Have you think this thing enough? If you said no, i guess that would be logical as you probably didn't need to. This what i have got, when i have tried to get good peach tree.

Olpea hi

I was thinking of asking about say do you consider you to be eastern U.S.A. or western U.S.A. regarding peaches, but i didn't. Looks like you got it and answered it already. So you knew that Arkansas variety was suspectible to bacterial spot. Hopefully you figured it before buying plant, or did you figured it out later? I think you figured it out before buing, i think is good idea look little bit peach variety information before buying. So you had 2 western peach variety and you took 1 out and now have 1? Did i got it right?

I haven't looked that thing so much in detail. I just think Kansas is in CST, which is central standard time and about central in U.S.A. Yes i meant eastern-western way, but you got it right. Looks like you know pretty well this bacterial spot. O.K. for explanation.

You can buy resistant varieties, if you find them and have money for them. Sounds like you have a lot work of spraying peaches of bacterial spot. So you plan to take those suspectible varieties out and buy new peach trees?

Jennifer20 hi

Who you said that? I think you said that to Olpea.

Dennis, you are correct that I forgot about your longer days and that will make a difference. Your cooler midsummer temperatures may also help, but peach trees love heat so they are not a tree that slows down much in the heat here. In any case I would look for early ripening peaches to increase your odds of success - even if they do ripen they taste better with more heat to ripen them.

That degreedays.net site is run by weather underground. Degree days are degree days, its the same concept whether for growing or heating/cooling (the base is different for different calculations but that site lets you set the base).

Scott

Scottfsmith hi

Growing season way, some put limit to 30 celsius degree so above that temperature don't make more growing degree days. I think this done because plants probably don't grow any faster when certain temperature has been reached. Actually too high temperature can be harmful for some plants, as they may start loss water because high temperature. This was just a additional information. O.K. you forgot that thing, no problem you are human and can make mistakes. No need to get embarrased, i think you wasn't but i just wanted to say it. I think you are right peaches like warm weather. Yes i think early ripening peach would be good as i said earlier. Regarding taste, i have read that any home grown peach is better than shop bought peaches. You know peaches from shop are sometimes hard and are not good tasting peaches. I think you are right that peaches taste better with warm weather.

Hi Dennis1983
Untill the last 3 or 4 years there have been no peaches available to buy in garden centres. I think they assumed peaches would not grow here. I could sometimes get trees out of Ontario, but hugely expensive as there was a "broken bundle charge" if I got less than 50 trees, then I had to freight them down here at a lot more money. I don't really want to pay a couple hundred dollars for one peach tree that may not grow here. Seeds from the store, when I eat the peaches, have been most successfull. Lately, the local garden centres are carrying peach, so the price falls to 60 bucks for a small one...not as bad as a couple of hundred each. It might be plant breders have made the peach more hardy, or it might be the weather has changed, as things that would not grow here 30 years ago, now do. Tree ripened peaches are MUCH more succulent than ones from the store.

Dennis, while I didn't think enough about the day length I think you also need to think some more about it. The sun is not just a switch on-off, the angle of the sun also matters so your sun is always much less intense than mine is. I believe I get just as much total solar energy in a given day in July as you do - mine comes in 14 hours and yours comes spread out over a longer time, 20 or whatever hours your day is then. So while my peach trees won't have as many hours with sun they will be growing faster when they do have sun. What does it all add up to in the end? Thats a hard question to answer.

Scott

Jocelynpei hi

I think peaches can be grown if they can ripen. I meant if peaches do ripen and peach have enough time to harden for winter. I think it also can affect peach trees how fast weather change to winter after peaches. If weather goes directly from peaches to winter there might not be enough time to harden peach tree. Also if there is not enough growing season to ripen peaches, next year flowers might be killed in cold weather. Peaches makes fruits in first year growth. So if flowers survive winter, you can have peaches. If peaches ripen, then peach tree can start hardening, or if i got it right make next year flowers. If there is enough time flowers get enough let's say growth before winter arrives they can survive. I think warm summer is good for peaches so they can ripen. I think it is good idea to get early ripening variety, so peaches can ripen. If winter don't come fast, cooler temperatures and darkening days starts plants to go to hardening for winter. I think snow cover in winter is also good for peaches.

Scottfsmith hi

I think you might be right about that sun angle that your sun is more intense. I think that solar energy goes that way more you have it higher your yearly average temperature is. Tropics have high yearly average temperature and does have high solar energy level.

I think here we should take in consideration one more thing, humidity. We can say when air is dry, which is low relative humidity temperature tend to rise high in summer. If relative humidity is high temperature don't reach as high in summer. Also if relative humidity is low temperature drop faster than if relative humidity is high. Here we can say that rain is humidity and clouds are humidity. That is enough information for our purposes.

Let's think now your peach trees in Maryland and peaches in Phoenix, Arizona. I don't know if there is peaches in Arizona, but le'ts imagine it in that example. Maryland has humid summer, has rain in summer. Peaches get water, also there is humidity which help keep soil not to dry too much. There is also good amount of warm weather to ripen peaches. Now let's take a look Arizona peaches. It is more southern so have more intense sun, it has more growing degree days than Maryland. This looks to be at first glance, enough growing degree days to ripen peaches. Arizona weather is dry, so temperature reach high levels. This means air humidity is low, this means you don't get much rain. What it means for peaches? Soil become quite dry, so peaches don't get much water. I think peaches like and need water for growing. Also when air is warm and dry plants evaporate water more than in humid weather. Maryland warm humid weather limit daily high temperature, but it also limits daily low temperature. Also is useful to remember that warm humid air holds more water than warm dry air. This might turn to more rain, altough high humidity doesn't guarantee a lot of rain.

If we think that clouds are humidity, then clouds slowdowns temperature drop in night. As far as i know in tropics they don't have 38 celsius warm even thought they are near equator. I meant same temperature what Arizona has. They have humid weather and good amount of rain at least in Amazon. They have grown much of different plants there. Arizona has warmer daily high temperature in summer than Amazon, but is drier than Amazon. I think Arizona doesn't have as much plants as in Amazon. If we now think that same way Maryland and Arizona, Maryland has more plants to grow or easier to grow as it has rain. You probably know what i mean.

If relative humidity is 100% then dew point is same as air tempeature. If relative humidity is low, dew point is low. If dew point is high then air holds much of humidity. That means air feels warm. It also means if rain happens, you can get a lot of rain. If humidity is high in autumn, it limits temperature drop. This means cold weather comes slowly. If you have dry air temperature can drop faster. I think peaches like more slowly temperature drop in autumn than fast as they harden for winter.

Maryland warm humid weather, doesn't mean you don't get sun. After sunrise temperature rise and sunray reduce air humidity which means less clouds which was humidity and sunny weather might be coming in day.

You said your peaches grow faster when you have sun. This sounds o.k. as you have warmer growing season.

You said what does it all up to end? You said that is a hard question to answer. Good question, i have think growing peaches and growing season earlier, but i guess nobody read my message. I felt i was writing myself. I wrote earlier here Gardenweb about growing season, if you remember. I think you are right it is not easy answer, but i have thinking something which in thinking common sense make sense someway.

If we think temperature and rain is important for peach growing, then dew point might be useful for growing season. Also if humidity is high in winter, you might get snow cover if temperature is below 0 celsius or so.

When temperature and relative humidity is taken account using some formula we get dew point. If we take yearly average dew point in account we might get something useful. As i told high dew point means more humidity, which means more rain, less difference in daily maximum and daily minimum temperature, i think peaches can grow better. I think that this has to be taken relatively, tropics probably have high yearly dew point but don't have enough chill for peaches.

So is there some way we can compare dew point? For example if we take zones which compare to yearly dew point? Let's think again Arizona and Maryland. Arizona has higher zone, but i think have lower dew point at least in summer, Maryland has lower zone but have higher dew point in summer. We can also look and compare summer months june, july, august and i think as said i think Maryland has higher dew point than Arizona in summer. I think warm dew point is good for growing peaches. I think you would be say that humid warm weather is also good for bacterial spot. I think you are right, but what you could do about it? If your weather is favorable for bacterial spot, then it is and i think you need to spray for it. That is another thing for peach growing.

Another way is look autumn dew points or relative humidity, if they are high it limits possibility of fast dropping temperature in autumn. I think summer dew points show humidity in summer. Another way is compare it to how many degrees you are from equator. I think those don't take account growing degree days. If you compare average temperature of Arizona and Maryland you don't take account of humidity and that way possible rain. Image might be quite different Arizona might then look better as it have higher zone and warmer growing season. Altought plants might be have different opinion. I haven't think much where to compare that dew point, those are just what came in my mind.

This wasn't quite easy to tell, hopefully you understood what i wrote and.

Dennis, I don't think high humidity necessarily makes higher temps, at least based on the places I have been. Southern California is low humidity and doesn't ever get very hot. Most of the tropics are very hot and very humid. California is also very good peach growing area a bit further north and its also low humidity there. So I don't think humidity is a big factor for peaches. The main thing is more humidity means more diseases and bugs so it makes it more work.

Scott

Scottfsmith hi

Sorry for last sentence, it shouldn't have word and. I wrote something and then removed it but and word was left there. Mine point was that humidity stabilize temperature. If you look hardiness map in U.S.A. you see coastal areas are warmer than inland area. Oceans keep coastal area warmer, but also coastal areas don't get as high temperature than in inland. I think temperature rise in spring is faster in inland than in coastal area and temperature drop is faster inland than in coastal in autumn. So humidity reduce temperature changes. So i think humidity in autumn helps that temperature don't drop fast. I think that helps peaches go safely to winter. It is good to remember that plant start to go for winter by reduced day length(Yes temperature also affect this). I was talking about common way for plants. I didn't say humidity makes higher temperature.

About California, i got message in earlier that California weather variesly where you are. Don't know what is your definition of southern California is that Fresno, San Diego, Salinas or coastal area, but i think you might be right they are low humidity but you didn't say what was your hot weather. I am not expert on this but i think you might be right that California is good for peach growing.

I said i meant humidity that way peaches can survive winter. Mine above Arizona thing, was thinking that if weather is dry, soil may become too dry but that was just writing in common sense as i said it. I think too fast temperature drop in autumn is not good for peaches and humidity here might help slowdown temperature drop.