Nice. So you grind them, basically, by passing them through the disposal. Then you press them in the press. I just found two friends have presses, so I was mulling a grinder. This looks simple. Would it work for grapes too?

Anything I need to know to about bolting the disposal to .. a metal plate it seems?

You'd have to ask Jellyman about using the disposal. I haven't got that far yet.

I used the nut as a template for a router to cut the hole and then a bearing bit to chamfer it to recess the basket in wood.
I have a piece of oak that if I decide I don't need will replace the scrap I used.
I was thinking about finding a small bar sink or cutting a hole in a mixing bowl to work as a hopper.

You don't need to grind grapes. The press would definitely work for grapes. My parent's had a wine making press that came in a kit and was pretty flimsy.

Glib:

Why would you want to use a metal plate to mount your disposal? Use a piece of kitchen countertop if you want it large enough to cut apples on the spot, or a heavy plastic kitchen cutting board if you want it smaller. You could even use high-quality marine plywood. You need something that will allow you to cut a disposal-size hole with a sabre saw. ISE disposals, which I believe are best for this application, do not mount with a nut, but with a ring that is tapped on with a hammer. But build a table. Do not try to discharge directly into the basket mounted on the press as Myk has done. Discharge into plastic buckets lined with pressing bags, then, when a little over half full, twist the top and lift the bag of slurry to your pressing basket.

For Myk:
There is nothing worse than having some yeahoo taking potshots at your ideas, but in spite of that I would make a couple of observations:
1. Your press is a powerfully built unit, but I will be interested to see how you handle the installation of a hydraulic cylinder. It seems to me that it will have to be very firmly attached above to keep it from running cockeyed when pressure is applied. It will also have to have a very long throw if it is to reach close to the bottom of your pressing basket. I have never seen such a cylinder for sale at usual sources such as Northern Tool, but they they may exist elsewhere. I once saw a hydraulic jack from Northern with a 19 inch throw, but that would be none too much. Your pressing plate, whatever material it is made from, will have to have a depression capable of accepting the business end of the cylinder to keep it from sliding around.
2. It might have been better to space the slats on your pressing basket a little closer. Those spaces are what permit the full bags to bulge out through the sides and blow out when pressure is applied. Ideally, the slats should be as close as possible to one another. The juice will still run through. I have also used the light gauge pressing bags from the winemaking store, and they last for about 15 minutes when pressing for cider. If you are not sure you have the heavy type bags sold by Happy Valley, you ought to look into them and buy several. I press two bags at a time with my screw press, which speeds things up.
3. Grooves in the block beneath your basket will be insufficient to carry off the juice when pressure is applied. Lots of juice will run off the sides. You can correct this by screwing wooden sides an inch or more high around the block. They will have to be sealed at the corners. There should be some kind of discharge pipe or spout.
4. I don't see much advantage to mounting the disposal on top of the press to discharge directly to the basket, other than the space saving of keeping the grinder and press as one unit. It is quite easy to lift a pressing bag from beneath a separate table to the basket, and it usually leaves nearly 1/2 gallon of clear juice in the plastic bucket before you even begin to press.
5. Your unit is certainly strong, but pretty heavy. Looks like a two-man job to move it. I do my grinding and pressing out on the lawn where there is no problem with making a little mess and hosing things down. I would hate to have to carry that press out to the yard. Maybe you will want to put wheels on it.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

Jellyman,
I welcome potshots. Being prepared for pitfalls is better than having them appear out of the blue with no answer at hand.

I'm using a bottle jack that will sit on top of the pressing plate. The pressing plate is from the same block as the base so that takes up 3", plus a piece of plate steel and handles which also serve as holders to keep the jack from sliding. The too long of throw is one of the attachments I have to make for the jack.
The pressing plate can't go too cock-eyed, I may need something at the top to keep the jack from slipping out, I almost welcome that to use up some of the extra space.
Hopefully it is way over powered and the pattern pipe I bent for the handle will have enough umpf to pump the jack, otherwise it's back to my friend's to weld one, I can get full handle strokes with the jack at the bottom of the basket as long as I have the right angle bent into the handle.

I agree totally about the slat spacing. But my friend insisted his father-in-law's press was a loose spacing (and I have to admit, my parent's was too). I thought they should be touching to act as filters. That's easy enough fix if it does pose a problem (although I don't welcome the thought of drilling 57 more holes in the bands). Standard board width will give me .07" spaces or I can plane some down for tight spacing.

My bag seems very heavy. It's held back wringing out "Special B" grains which can be sharp and hard even after boiling. I don't think it will be an instant problem.

I was not expecting that much juice from apples. I have a 1/4"x1/2" half round groove around the basket in addition to 1/4" beneath it. If that's not enough of a channel and I need a wall around the base I'll have to run the router across the front or else the sides of the table won't drain over the crown of the base.
That is exactly the type of "potshots" I welcome so I can be prepared.
I may go ahead and set that up now in case I decide to do cherry juice which I'm sure could overflow the channels.
The channel down the front is carved into a spout underneath so the juice doesn't run across the bottom.

After getting it together I was wondering if lifting the apples to head high for the grinder outweighs the space saving of having the grinder up there. I do need space saving, but my neck doesn't like a lot of overhead work.

Yes it is very heavy. My original idea was to store it in the shed and move it to my porch to press. I joked about wheels as he was welding it. He has a problem with overbuilding (you should see the bulldozer and boat he built).
I don't mind spraying down a mess in the shed. I used to hang and quarter deer in there (and still do if it's raining).
What I don't like is having to run an extension cord to the grinder. Once a year to get light for deer was one thing, but I may be pressing a lot between Aug-Nov once my new trees are producing. I've had the thought that it's time to run electricity out there.

Thanks to both. Yes, no need for metal surfaces and a cutting board with a bucket underneath should be just perfect for the task.

I was aware that grapes need no grinding (I have 18 gallons of wine under fermentation), but I moved to an area which has numerous crabapple trees and aronia shrubs within walking distance, so I have a hitch for aronia-apple wine (in the past I made hard cider numerous times, sometimes cranberry flavored, but never aronia flavored). I can just press aronia, but I would have to grind apples and crabapples.

I got sidewalls on the base. I can dump a gallon of water in it pretty quickly and not overflow other than some splashing.
I don't think even pitted cherries will be able to be squished that fast with the bottle jack.

I got the jack plate made for the pressing plate.

One more saw cut to make an extension and I'll be ready to start pressing.

Myk:

You cleared up one thing for me. I assumed your would suspend you bottle jack from the top, but the base of the jack will sit on top of the pressing plate. That ought to work with your specially made pump lever, at least I hope so. It is still not clear to me how a bottle jack will have enough travel to maintain contact with an upper member when the bag of apple slurry presses down, but you probably have that figured out.

Please keep us current on how things work out, ideally with a photo of the final design and assembly. It it works well, I may try something like that, since the screw on my old press is beginning to get a little worn, and would have to be reworked in a couple of years.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

Myk...it looks like you're enjoying your apple juice soon!
Don is giving you some good advise, I'm just sitting back and watch. LOL
I'm sure, your setup is much improved from this one in the link below.
This guy bleaches his apples, then buying special east from England, he has allot of things wrong, but I still love
to watch, how some of them go thru such a nightmare to get some juice out,.. it seems, there is still some 100 year
old technology out there you can buy for a do it yourselver.

Oh...I have a question, why apple juice is called apple cider.
Google apple cider press and you are going to be amused to watch some videos for a few hours.

Konrad

Here is a link that might be useful: Making apple cider

jellyman,
I have an extension that slips over the screw of the jack. If the basket is full, about halfway down I'll have to let the jack down and put the extension on. I may make an extension that actually screws in the jack in place of the screw they have just to play with my lathe.
I suspect I'll be doing more half baskets than full ones, especially until I make a hopper for the grinder.

The good thing is that if anything is wrong with this I can easily modify it.

If I press tomorrow I'll get a picture with it in operation. Even if my weak jack handle doesn't work out I'll have something around here I can bend that will get me partial strokes.

"Oh...I have a question, why apple juice is called apple cider. "
konrad___far_north,
I've searched that question quite a bit.
It seems in England if it's alcoholic it's cider.
In the US if it's a blend of varieties and unfiltered it's cider, alcoholic is hard cider. Juice tends to be single variety and filtered. But there are no real rules in the US.
What about the difference between apple wine and hard cider?

He bleaches the apples??? I know from homebrewing that a very small amount of bleach will show up in the flavor (and I'm not one who gets picky about minor flavors). I was paranoid about using it as a bottle wash, I used camden tablets to sterilize fermenters. I wouldn't think of bleaching the fruit. I'd rather risk pasteurizing effecting the flavor than bleach.

I never thought about specialized cider yeast. Now I wish we had some homebrew stores left in the area. I know the specialized beer yeasts made some pretty good beer (whether it was worth the specialized price is a different story).

I got slightly over 3 gallons out of 33lbs. I guess my process must work.
My bag didn't look like it was going to bust at any time, but I think I will fill the spaces at least at the bottom half because it was getting pushed out.
The 33lbs pressed down by hand far enough that I started off with the extension on the jack. I'm not sure if I'd want to do more at a time or not. I don't trust the bottom of the fermenters to carry much more weight than 3 or 4 gallons.

By the time I was finishing and putting my weight on the jack I was hearing metal creaking and wood moaning. My friend wanted me to get a 20 ton jack, I'm not sure if the base would've tolerated that. The pin I used for the extension got bent pretty good.
The scraps came out like partical board that had been left out in a rain.

It took me about half of the 30lbs to figure out the disposal and get a system going. Mine seems to not like halves or wholes, but at that point I was expecting it to eat them on its own. To get it to eat on its own I had to cycle it on and off a lot.
I switched to cutting them with one of those press down corer/slicers. Then I just started cramming the slices and cores in and forcing the disposal to eat. Then it worked pretty good. I never did overheat it although I did smell it getting close a few times.
I would cut a large mixing bowl's worth of apples, cram them in as fast as it would eat and then the disposal would get a rest while I cut the next bowl.

I'll have to check with my brother to see how long it would take where he works to come up with enough saw blades to make up 5" wide for a grinder. His are big blades but they'd be free. I'd like a more hands off hopper approach. The disposal will work fine until then.
I'm also going to get ahold of him to get me a scrap piece of counter top, definitely need a work area out there.

Here it is grinding.
{{gwi:125248}}

Starting the juices flowing.
{{gwi:125249}}

Finishing, note my weak handle didn't work out. The spaces in the slats ended up being handy.
{{gwi:125250}}

Here's a close up of the jack on the pressing plate. You can see part of the extension on the top of the screw.
{{gwi:125251}}

And I will be leaving the disposal up top. The space saving is worth it.

And thanks Jellyman, I needed those walls around the base at least once.

Myk:

Three gallons from 33 pounds of apples is a very good yield. I usually figure about 3 1/2 gallons from a bushel, but that is 42 pounds according to commercial orchardists. Of course, yield can vary with the different apples.

I almost hate to mention this now that you are all set up, but I am pretty sure the ISE disposals are superior to the Waste King for this application. I think that is due to different spacing or placement of the hammers. I am not as confident about any of the newer disposals that are made in China, which, unfortunately, is where most of these small appliances are now made. They ought to be the same, but I don't think they are. It is almost worth checking on the box to see where they are made.

My cheap Badger model from ISE will take apples as fast as I can feed them, so long as they are cut in half. Of course, it is that continuous feeding that increases the load on the motor and contributes to overheating.

But you will get the bugs worked out of your system, sooner or later. I like your strong press frame, but I still believe grinding on a small but separate table is more efficient.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

I wasn't expecting that much juice from Arkansas Black, I always questioned the Winesap parentage because they seemed on the dry side to me. I'm guessing the 12" of rain we had in September has something to do with it. Everything was squirting when I put it on the peeler (Newtowns were actually spraying as they were turned in the peeler).

The cider is also very sweet, which is something else I wasn't planning on.

Having the grinder where it is wasn't that bad. The main problem was not having a table to cut at. I think if I had it mounted lower I'd be looking in and getting my face splashed.
The only inefficiency I can think of is if I was wanting to grind while I was pressing (but I don't have two bags for that). I would only need to do that if I needed to get 6 gallons of cider to ferment in my 7 gallon carboy and I'm not a big enough drinker to make that much alcohol (which is a reason I don't make beer any more).

The home improvement store only had 2 brands of diposals and the other ones were quite expensive. This one is made in China.

I just made another batch with a hair over 40lbs and got 4 gallons. 10 of those were store bought and I really had to try to get the 4 gallons even.
It went much faster now that I figured out what I need and how to make the disposal eat.
I also figured out to take a some juice that runs off the grindings and cycle it back through the disposal. That gets it to evacuate everything that's stuck in it.

>>And I will be leaving the disposal up top. The space saving is worth it.Figured I could chime in now to help you out a bit?

Yes, I like the idea not to handle the grind twice, still, I think you could improve on it by bringing your grinder
down over the basket and not using the pail.
You can make yourself a swivel bracket, which is attached to the main frame, when you grind, swivel it over the basket, when done, move it out of the way, then you have plenty of room working the press.

Is your bottle jack attached to the center frame?
If not, perhaps you could, with two springs either sides, so the jack comes up by itself without holding it.
You might want to use a solid piece of wood under your jack, when starting the second stroke cycle, this makes it easier pumping further up and out of the basket.

Konrad

My machinist friend wanted to build it with return springs. I didn't see the need. Now that I've done it I think they would be in the way.

The jack isn't attached to the frame in any way but I turned the extension for the jack square so it stays square to where it's put. I had thought about using some bolts in the beam or having a piece of pipe welded to the frame to hold it but so far it hasn't come close to wanting to move and I've put all the force that the jack can produce and the base can handle.

With the 40lbs of apples I was still able to squish the must far enough to get the jack in with the extension from the start so the only need to let the jack down to was see if the disk of apples is pressed dry enough to call done.

The only problem with the jack in the basket or the extension is finding a pin that is hard enough that it won't bend yet soft enough that it won't shatter.

When I make a different grinder I probably will make it so it will empty directly into the basket. I can size it so it stores behind the press for space and when using it I'll want it out front and lower so I can heft up a whole box/bucket of apples to a hopper.

To get the disposal to empty directly into the basket would take an expander because the ground apples seem to get packed into the exit pipe and pushed out by further grinds. Having the same size longer would be a problem.

I like your press. Have you seen the homemade Whizbang apple grinder and cider press? Same principle as yours but it's made of wood (easier for most folks to build) and it uses a wood pressing shaft. The pressing discs in the mash are another difference. There are lots of pictures at WhizbangCider.com

Here is a link that might be useful: Whizbang Cider

Hm.....he's making apple sauce, when you see the bag of sauce putting into the press and when
taking out, the size difference is hardly noticeable, no wonder hardly any juice comes out!
Remember..
Apples have to be cut fine, using hard apples....do not grind into apple sauce!

Konrad

hckimball:

Here's a guy who has taken the only truly original idea I have ever had, using a kitchen disposal to grind apples, and have been telling everyone who would listen about it for the past 12 years for free, and he writes a book which he wants to sell for $18.95.

May he go straight to hell. Don't buy his book. You don't need it.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

Obviously hckimball is violating the no advertising policy and is "Herrick Kimball" who wrote and is selling the book. This thread just happened to be an opportunity to spam.

I agree, you don't need the book. If you can follow the instructions of the plan you can make your own plans. Squishing apples isn't exactly rocket science.

I would say the yield issues aren't the pulp but rather the pressing shaft and scissors jack turned with a pair of vice grips balanced precariously on top of the 2x6 with a stack of 2x blocks.
He's probably not squeezing with very much pressure.

I wouldn't want the pressure I'm putting on apples going into a single 2x6 on end, especially not one with a bunch of holes drilled in it. Even at 1 ton that's a lot of weight to be putting on one stud. My jack is 12 tons and that's way too much for a single 2x. One slight warp could be dangerous.

I agree Mike. A scissors jack may offer cheap initial cost, but it doesn't offer enough pressure. There are free plans available on the internet to build wooden presses. They have a higher initial cost with an acme screw, but offer more pressure to increase yield. I've heard an adjustable piano chair can be salvaged for a screw. Or, as Mike points out, a hydraulic jack is best.

I can understand Don's frustration. I've read many of Don's old posts at Nafex regarding the garbage disposal grinder. I don't think anyone could dispute Don was the inventor of the idea and was kind enough to share it with anyone. Wizbang, at a minimum, should give credit where credit is due.

Speaking of new ideas, I've been working on an apple press design that I've never seen before. I've worked with some engineers on a forum to help with the structural engineering and have it mostly drawn up now. It's a teeter totter type press. Picture the jack on one end, with a fulcrum in the middle, and a pressing plunger on the other end. Or, think of a pump jack on an oil set. But instead of the I-beam pulling up the sucker rod, it pushes down on a plunger, to press the apples. I hope to get started building it this summer.

My original plan was for a teeter totter design but my machinist friend nixed it.
I think he thought it would take a lot more pressure than it takes to squeeze apples or he just wanted to do what he wanted to do and wasn't going to listen to anything else.

He said the fulcrum's upright would want to lean. I didn't understand why and still don't. I think it would want to lift but see no reason it would lean.
I'm going to have to build a miniature.

Don, I can feel for you, perhaps talk to him and see if something can be worked out.
If you're the inventor then he should pay you royalty on sales.
But then...who wants' to buy he's crap,.. the dumb one's and there might be allot of them..LOL

Teeter totter design been around for hundreds of years..
see link, 200 years old, this one you can buy for 1990
Konrad

Here is a link that might be useful: Teeter totter design

Mike,

Your machinist friend is right. The fulcrum will take some lateral/horizontal pressure. This is because the upper beam (i.e.teeter/totter) forms an arc during it's path of travel. So the plunger, and hydraulic jack are at various angles to the fulcrum upright during the travel of the upper beam. This causes some lateral pressure to the upright. I've calculated about 500 lbs. max lateral pressure on the upright, assuming an 8 ton jack. But, the upright can be braced to hold 500 lbs. horizontally.

The pump jack design has a disadvantage, in that it must be much heavier in several places, than a shop press design. But there are some advantages to it that I've never seen in any other design.

Konrad,
The link you showed shows the fulcrum attachment on the end of the beam. The design I want to build has the attachment in the middle.

Konrad:

It is true that the disposal grinds the apple pomace pretty fine, but the little hammermills break up the juice cells and give you about all the juice that is in the apple. After pressing, I end up with a disc of very dry pomace that I could use as a frisbee if I could get it out in one piece. If anyone wanted to use this as fruit leather with a little further drying, it would be possible to do so by removal of the cores and seeds before grinding. I am afraid that using the disposal is not really an invention, but an adaptation of an existing machine. Too bad for me; otherwise I could have patented it.

Olpea: I'm not so much frustrated as irritated, but I guess that's a fine point. The Whizbang guy suggests in his website that he has some secret way to "adapt" a disposal for grinding apples, but of course this is nonsense. In fact, he seems to have some piping that is really unnecessary, and would only complicate operation. The disposal will discharge straight down into a bucket lined with a pressing bag using only the factory elbow.

BTW I have finally figured out a way solve the overheating problem. Wrap the motor case top to bottom with 3/8 copper tubing, secured with a couple band clamps. Leave enough excess on both ends to fit a garden hose at the inlet (using a cork or other means of reduction) and run the discharge out to the lawn. Turn on the water to a minimal constant flow. The cold water will carry away the motor heat and turn it into a continuous duty machine.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

This has gotten very interesting. Now I'm trying to figure out the relative efficiency and operation of the teeter-totter method as it has been a long time since the concepts of levers, wedges, and screws were introduced in grade school. I understand that the principal of the lever is to magnify the force on the point closest to the fulcrum relative to the amount of force at the point furthest from the fulcrum. If the jack is 2 feet from the fulcrum and the press plate is 1 foot, then 500 lbs. of force applied at the jack roughly translates into 1,000 lbs. of force at the press plate, but the drawback to this is that at the jack, the lever will move considerably more distance than the movement at the press plate. The range of movement at the jack means that you need one with considerable reach or else you need to stop frequently and add spacing blocks?

Won't the lever require more material and strength than a standard press? With a standard press, you are applying a compressive force to the rod going from the jack to the press plate, so the rod needs to have a high fracture/compressive strength but relatively low lateral strength since the force is being applied in a straight line along the long axis. With the lever, you are applying a lateral force at the jack, again at the fulcrum, and again at the connection to the press plate (lateral being perpendicular to the long axis of the lever). The lever must be very strong to prevent bending. As a result, your lever might be a rail from a railroad track compared to a 1" steel rod for a standard design (relative sizes way overblown to illustrate the difference)? Otherwise, your lever will bend/break at some point between the jack and the press plate?

So in the end, with the teeter-totter you benefit greatly by being able to magnify the force the jack generates, at the expense of greater material strength in the lever itself? The teeter totter press would also occupy more floor space than a standard press? Are there other benefits anyone wishes to disclose?

Just curious.

Beeone,

Yep, levers are generally used to gain some mechanical advantage. What is gained in the multiplying the force, is given up in distance traveled, and vice/versa. So if one had a 20 ton jack, with very little travel, one could place the jack 1 foot from the fulcrum, and the press plate 2 foot from the fulcrum, to increase the travel of the press plate, in exchange for a loss of force. Or, as you point out, one could do the opposite to increase the force on the press plate.

My design does neither. I plan to put the fulcrum in the exact middle, so that no mechanical advantage is gained, or lost. Don, in previous posts, has pointed out extra long ram jacks are available. They are generally used on engine hoists and will provide enough "throw" so that adding spacing blocks to the press plate won't be necessary. Here are some advantages I see with the lever design compared to a shop press design (with the jack on top)

1.Pressing can be done in one motion, without stopping to add blocks, or re-adjust. 2. The hydraulic fluid and equipment (return springs) are below and away from the food source. 3. The lever can be counter-balanced so that when the pressure is released, the jack will return without any return springs.

Advantages of a lever compared to a shop press design with the jack on the bottom (under the catch pan): 1.It keeps the pressing bucket lower to the ground (An extra-long throw jack is pretty tall, even when collapsed. Counting the height of the bucket and everything else, the top of the bucket is about chest high, when the jack is collapsed.) This is pretty important when dumping slurry into the pressing bucket. May not be an issue, if you're a strong young buck, but as you get older, you look for ways to make things easier (especially lifting). 2. The lever keeps the overall height of the press shorter than the shop press. In fact, a shop type press with the jack on the bottom won't fit upright in my garage.

The advantage of any hydraulic press compared to a screw press is that they deliver more much more pressure with virtually no friction loss.

As you mention, the disadvantages: 1. Both the top and bottom i-beams must be much heavier than a shop press. As an example, an 8 ton jack on one end of the lever, with a plunger on the other, will produce 16 tons of force in the middle of the beam (where the fulcrum is attached). An 8 ton jack on a shop press, only puts 8 tons of force on the middle of the beam. 2. There will be a slight loss of force due to a small amount being transferred laterally during part of the range of travel.

Olpea:

Perhaps I am missing something entirely here, but when I try to conceptualize your design, I don't understand the fulcrum. If you raise one end of the lever to lower the other, why wouldn't you create a strong upward force on the fulcrum? Is the fulcrum to be set in concrete, or is it part of a very heavy base that extends clear across the working area?

I have to confess I don't see much real advantage here over a traditional acme screw design, certainly in terms of size and portability. My old screw-type press, reinforced by threaded steel side rods and U-beams top and bottom, exerts enough force to press the pomace dry as a bone. Maybe it's not quite as fast as something that could be designed with a hydraulic cylinder, but the only point of wear is the double nut welded on top, I don't have any other machinery to worry about, and I can pick it up to store in the basement over the winter.

I just don't understand how a lever would work when the force on the fulcrum is a lifting force, not a compression force.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

Don,

I can't explain the design better than to say it's just like a pump jack, except that a pump jack has tension force on each end of the beam, whereas the apple press has compression force on each end of the beam. The jack is on one end and the plunger is on the other end. After I started working on this, an engineer sent me a link that has an animated picture of something very close, called a watt's engine. Take a look at the link below. It's the same idea, except mine wouldn't have the "guide" system for the plunger, and in place of a water wheel would be a long ram hydraulic jack.

You're correct, this press would not be as lightweight and portable as a screw press. However I do plan to put large wooden wheels on the press to move it in and out of the garage. I think the screw press is a tried and true method and is my second choice for a press design. However, a fellow Nafexer posted some advantages a hydraulic jack has over a screw, recapped:
1. The platen is more stable with less tendency to tilt than with a screw.
2. Quicker retraction of the cylinder vs. the screw.
3. No rotation of the press, as when large torque is applied to a screw.
4. No wear or lubrication required.
5. More pressure is applied with less effort than a screw. I'm afraid a screw would wear my shoulders out with a lot of pressing. However, if your a husky farm boy from Iowa (or Virginia) this may not be a worry :-)
6. A screw and thrust bearing can be pricey.

Now saying all that, I've no firsthand experience using either type of press but intuitively some of the points make sense to me. But like I said if I decide against the lever design, I think a screw would make a fine time-tested design, and I'll go with that.

Mark

Here is a link that might be useful: Watts Engine

Jellyman,
The reason I wanted hydraulic instead of a screw is because of my back. I have a screw press for a rubber mold making machine and the push/pull of my arms transfers to twisting my back.

If your screw is producing enough squish then the same weight frame would be strong enough to hold hydraulics producing the same amount of squish. My frame is way over built, but that's the cost of having the machinist I have building things, everything is overbuilt.

Because I can make my own screws and nuts the cost would actually be cheaper for me to use a screw as long as I left out the chiropractor bill.

The reason I wanted a lever was to have the jack away from the bucket.

Olpea:

If you apply an upward compression force at the end of a beam, translating into a downward compression force at the other end, you will generate an equally strong upward pulling force at the fulcrum. This will require a joint with a strong pin at the fulcrum to accommodate the lifting force, as well as a fulcrum that is very well anchored at the bottom. You may have made provisions for this in your design, but so far, from what you have said, you have not taken this lifing force into consideration. The Watts engine is interesting, but not a very good comparison since the forces are not as high. Even so, the fulcrum of the Watts engine has to be well anchored to work if there is any real resistance against the flywheel.

Konrad's museum piece teeter-totter press has an anchored fulcrum, but could not have generated much force from its turned-wood screw. If you did apply strong force from the screw, the whole unit would lift off the ground. The amount of force that this old press could generate on apple slurry was limited by the overall weight of the unit.

Myk:
You know what is best for your own back, but there can be fewer gardenwebbers older and more decrepit that me, and I have no difficulty with turning the screw. My screw is turned by two 14 inch sections of 1 1/2 inch steel pipe screwed into a steel "T" fitting, and gives me lots of mechanical advantage. Hard turning does not begin until the very end of the process, and there is not much of it.

Having said that, I very much admire your all-steel press that would be invulnerable to enemy attack. If we can get the weight down to less than 10,000 lbs., and I can learn to weld, I would build one.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

Interesting

Just encase if someone hasn't seen my way of juicing.
This system has 0 strain on your back!
Konrad

Here is a link that might be useful: My Juicer

"Having said that, I very much admire your all-steel press that would be invulnerable to enemy attack. If we can get the weight down to less than 10,000 lbs., and I can learn to weld, I would build one."

LOL, that tank trap almost slipped out of the bed of my truck on the way home. It was teetering on my bumper, and people were still tail gating me.

Konrad,
I'm borrowing your grinder design. I just have to let my brother know so he can start saving up saw blades for me. Free is always better.

Don wrote: "If you apply an upward compression force at the end of a beam, translating into a downward compression force at the other end, you will generate an equally strong upward pulling force at the fulcrum."

Don, this isn't exactly right. If you have an equal upward compression force at the end of each beam, you have double the tension force at the fulcrum. Think, for a moment of an i-beam with each end resting on blocks. If you put 1000 lbs. on the middle of the beam, you'll have 500 lbs. on each end (1000/2=500 lbs.) Likewise, if you apply 8 tons of force on each end of a beam, that is attached to a fulcrum in the middle, you will end up with 16 tons of upward tension force on the fulcrum. You're right, it will require a big fulcrum pin (1.5" dia.) and the fulcrum upright will need a strong attachment. I'm going to try to insert a picture of a sketch below. The sketch shows an upper and lower i-beam. The fulcrum upright is welded to the lower i-beam, and will have additional bracing (which isn't shown). With wheels (not shown) it looks like I'm building a siege-work. Hopefully, like Myk, I can keep the weight under 10,000 :-)

Myk, I hope to build one of Konrad's grinders too. Although expensive, it seems incredibly fast.

{{gwi:125252}}

I got my idea of using a garbage disposal from Don's NAFEX posts years ago. Friends using a hammermill to grind their apples gave me the idea to have the jack under the basket of pulp and push the basket up against a fixed plunger (which can be removed to load the basket). The longer through jack came from Norther Tool, and has about a 20" ram.

I was planning to make aluminum fins from flashing metal and clamp them with large hose clamps to the outside of the disposal--we already removed the sheet metal outer housing and the sound insulation, and have a small computer fan blowing on it when it is in use. But the use of copper tubing to provide water cooling sounds good too. I think that there is a conductive putty type of material that might improve heat flow to the copper, too.

Are you talking about thermal paste like Arctic Silver, used for CPU heat sinks and what not? Normally a very small amount is added between the conductive surfaces. You might need to get a little more precision in the design to increase surface area for heat conduction. Flattening and sanding the copper tubing might be sufficient.

Gurgler:

I like your idea of flattening the copper tubing to get better heat transfer. Two heads are better than one. I am definitely going to wrap my motor before the fall pressing season.

You would have to be kind of careful using a hammer, but a vise might offer better control. If you were to flatten too much, it would be very difficult to un-flatten.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

If you do flatten copper tubing too far, there is a tool which helps undo the damage. A friend of mine does heating and air conditioning. When I installed my split AC, I almost ran into this problem. If you do, contact a buddy who does HVAC. Agreed, I'd stay away from the hammer. -Glenn

>>and have a small computer fan blowing on it when it is in use.Yes, forced air can take away heat too...perhaps wrap the motor with some copper sheeting then you don't have to deal with water.

Konrad

I love your press!I'm building some like yours
but I'm thinking more along the lines of a completely
electric over hydroloic press maybe a garage door opener
for the screw jack but its long any other Ideas that might work? my basket is 24inches wide by 24 inches high.
I'm juiceing nopala catutes fruits they have lots of seeds.