THANKS for the comments. They are helpful. I'm considering the clover OR something else because my yard is a VERY HEAVY CLAY. When I seeded it with Perennial Rye before...it did well....but I had some problems with my well so I wasn't able to keep it well-watered and it perished before I got my water-problems solved. I chose the rye grass because I LIKE the fine narrow leaves rather than the large coarse leaves of some grasses. THOSE I truly dislike! Our area is very arid...not at all humid. Ryegrass also stays green much better and longer in this area. I don't mind "over-seeding" some areas in the future...although it would be NICE if the ryegrass was a "spreader".....I will have to look around a bit on the internet to see IF I can find seed for a "spreading ryegrass". I wasn't aware that such existed. I do have a COMPOST pile that I will spread over the area prior to tilling and re-seeding. It should be a fine compost since I also raise chickens and incorporate the droppings into the other compost materials. (I don't expect to NEED "fertilizer". I'll just spread my compost occasionally -lightly). I expect that to "do-the-trick" as far as fertilizer and soil improvement is concerned. Especially IF I run an "Aerator" over the lawn each year or so before I spread more compost. Maybe instead of CLOVER....I should just put a zillion worms out in the lawn to break-up this hard-pan Alkali Clay! Ha-Ha !!! THANKS for the advice. ANY further suggestions are certainly WELCOME and MUCH APPRECIATED!!! -Junkmanme-

"that is why i said or "at least it does in our area". in cooler climates it may stay green. down here it won't. i even pointed out teh fact that your hated weed, bermuda, is the grass of choice in my area." I noticed that and was just trying to clarify some of the differences between warm and cool season grasses. I don't have a problem with Bermuda, but I've only seen it around here, either. I saw some Bermuda lawns when I was in Memphis a while back. Judging by how hot it was before the lawns turned green, I don't think Bermuda would have a very good growing season here. I reread your original post and also saw something that pointed out one of the classic problems of having an aggressively spreading cool season plant and an aggressively spreading warm season plant. Your clover spreads when conditions are good for it and chokes out the Bermuda. But when conditions are good for the Bermuda, they're bad for the clover, so the Bermuda spreads and chokes out the clover. What typically happens is that you end up with a patchy looking lawn all year, instead of a lawn that is uniformly either green or brown, depending on time of year. I've got alkaline soil, so dutch white clover wouldn't do well for me. I planted strawberry clover, which is similar to DWC, but prefers alkaline soil and isn't as drought tolerant. I quit watering at the end of July to kill most of my grass prior to reseeding with natives. Nearly all the KBG is dormant if not dead. I've still got some clumps of green K31 tall fescue (ugly stuff that I don't like). A couple of dandelions that survived the weed hound and patches of strawberry clover (which isn't as drought tolerant as DWC) account for most of the green in my lawn at the moment. If strawberry clover will stay green in the desert after a month of no water, the more drought tolerant DWC will probably stay green without any problems in MA, which has cooler and wetter summers. I do have some grass that is green and growing nicely--it's blue grama, a warm season native grass. It's thriving in the few spots where I planted it. The drawback is that it was dormant from mid October until mid May (maybe even longer), and the rest of the lawn was green pretty much all year (since it was green before the snow covered the lawn and green when the snow melted, I'm assuming it stayed green the whole time). I'm sure that compared with warm season grasses DWC would seem to be a water hog, but compared with cool season grasses, it takes a lot less water to keep it green. But keep in mind that it's hot and dry for a lot less time in most areas where cool season grasses are used (Utah is probably the exception). When I lived in Illinois, many people didn't bother watering their lawns and would just let the grass go dormant for a few weeks (or maybe a month). Here in Utah, a lawn needs to be watered at least twice a week to keep it green during the summer (we're lucky to get any measurable precipitation from June through August at least).

Thanks for the input SoTX. I'm going to check out the New Zealand white type.. 5 days from sowing: RE: Clover Lawn Performance in the Long Run? Posted by: fingersoup (My Page) on Wed, Sep 7, 11 at 21:45 Just a quick update.. From QuickCam RE: Clover Lawn Performance in the Long Run? Posted by: fingersoup (My Page) on Wed, Sep 14, 11 at 12:30 RE: Clover Lawn Performance in the Long Run? Posted by: fingersoup 7 (My Page) on Tue, May 29, 12 at 22:23 Sorry I haven't updated this recently. I totally forgot about this post. -- A year later: From May 29, 2012 Something that I ran into that I haven't seen much discussion about on here is rot. - In the spring when the humidity was high, I had patches simply "melt" with rot.. so that is something to consider depending on your area. (This pic above is actually VERY flattering as it is more blotchy in person.) I have over-seeded twice since the previous above pictures and the result has been less than impressive. I think that I am going to kill it this fall and put in grass. Overall, the coverage is not great and even in the areas where there is full coverage - it still looks unkempt.. so much work and money wasted. Post a Follow-Up Your Name: Your Email Address: Zone (optional): Subject of Posting: Message: Optional Link URL: Name of the Link: Return to the Organic Gardening Forum

Just found this thread, and would appreciate advice. I go for a semi-natural lawn: turf grass, but with some wildflowers encouraged. I'm a convert to white clover. It has taken years to get the stuff established in my lawn, which is in thin topsoil over a deep layer of glacial sand - very dry! It's finally spreading in some areas, and I'm hoping will fill in the barest places where grass just won't grow. (I mulch-mow, but don't water as a rule.) I've been mowing a couple of times in the spring, then waiting to cut again until about July. This lets my favorite wildflowers go to seed; then I have a mostly-grass lawn again through autumn. Clover seed is expensive. It also seems that letting it naturalize should encourage the hardiest strains for this plot. So here's the questions: how long after flowering do I have to wait for seeds I've never actually seen seed on the plants; I guess it falls/blows out as soon as it's ripe. I've read that the flowers die as soon as they've been fertilized. Is there some fixed number of days from when the flowers start to wilt until I can mow without losing all the seed? Thanks- Chelydra