Mine looked similar about 3-4 weeks ago. Now I look a lot better after one shot of weed b gone and some warmer weather. I'll try to take new ones and post some updated pix.

Be careful with that Milorganite - as soon as the soil warms up, it could quickly release a lot of nitrogen and your mower will suffer trying to chop through the thick grass. Warm temperatures are on the way!

Don't be careful with the Milorganite, the grass needs plenty of nutrients to develop this year. But yes, you're going to get a lot of thick, thick grass.

And today is barely 50 here again, slowing growth (probably for the last time this year, I hope). Yours should be a good 3 weeks behind mine...the next 3 weeks will be an adventure. It'll green up and grow fast once it starts.

I really do think the cold cold winter has slowed things up here. I use all organic fertilizer, so that takes time to release the N esprcialy with the cool spring.

Be carefull? Are you kidding?!?!?

I can't wait to mow 2 times a week!

When people around here say that they put WeedBGone down, are they referring to the hose-end sprayer version or just spot spraying?

Spot spraying didn't do it for me, so I sprayed it down. I am not sure how much I like the hose-end one.

I feel your pain on the weeds. I only overseeded, but I literally scalped my lawn down to nothing and then ran dethatched and dethatched and dethatched, thus opening up a LOT of room for new weeds. It has been an interesting spring to say the least.

Yup, it's a common theme all over the northern parts of the country.

I tried the dial-n-spray hose attachment for the first time the other day, we'll see how the time savings adds up compareed to the 98% weed kill using the one gallon sprayer I used last year.

Good evening folks. I'm looking at the pic above. I have not done any lawn renovation so I don't know if my guess is right or wrong. Is it possible that the seeds bought contained weed seeds as well?

Thanks.

"Is it possible that the seeds bought contained weed seeds as well?"

It's possible, but there are weed seeds everywhere. When we reseed or overseed, we usually do whatever we can to make conditions favorable for the new grass. Those are the same conditions that help weeds get started.

You should be using synthetic fertilizers if you want faster spring green up and a faster growing KBG. At least for the first year of establishment, then you can go back to organic the following year.

Like others have mentioned, Milorganite is not going to work until temperatures are warm to very warm, and you are in zone 5.

Although I've become quite the tree-hugging hippie over the last year or so, I'm with auteck on this one.

There is a time and a place for everything and sometimes you need the inorganic, man-made power of synthetics to get you up and running. Nurture this lawn for the first year giving it the best of everything and then slowly, over the course of it's second year's growth ween it off to an organic program.

That's the plan for my KBG front lawn anyways...

Organic/synthetic, I understand that organic is slower, i just like what it does to the soil. My backyard renovation in 2005 did not take this long in the spring of 2006 to green up and grow, and that grass was a disaster in 4/2006. Also, that lawn has not even been mowed yet, but it is dark green

The large areas I filled in in 9/2006 were all greened up and mowed by this time last year.

Last fall I got a great start to the front yard, I even had to mow it 3 or 4 times by the fall. I'm just noting that this year is far differnt than the last 2 years. I've done nothing different, and I'm guessing there are a lot of others that are seeing the same results.

Maybe I am coming across as being impatient and complaining, but I'm really not...well at least I'm trying not to.

Hey Egghead,

I'm in MA as well. I just mowed my KBG renovation this year for the first time over the weekend. Although to be honest, I didn't have to. i had 30-40 spots where my dog peed and I had huge growth there, those spots I mowed over.

But most of the lawn wasn't even touched by the blades, although I did it anyway to mulch up the leaves that were laying around.

I'm gonna have to try some weed b gone. THey aren't bad yet but i can see them sprouting and they are everywhere.

An early season kick isn't a great idea--it forces the grass out of dormancy, and this year isn't a good one for that. Your grass is young, temperatures are cool, it wants to sleep in.

Let it. Next year, if you feel you must, force it. But this year, let it awaken naturally and slowly (which it's clearly doing from the above photos). Growth will follow once the new leaves are producing the energy to fuel it without completely draining the roots to dregs for resources.

Believe me, I understand the impatience! By Tax Day I was champing at the bit. Now, a month later, it looks great!

If my calcs are right that is 45 lbs of milogranite/1000 ft^2 added. That is alot! I'm assuming the soil is absorbing it, but how much is on the surface? Soil temperatures have been at or below 50 this month. Once it warms up that milorganite will cycle and your nose and eyes will notice it. I'ld work on the weeds for now and wait a month. This has been a cold dry spring with the exception of that week of warmth we had in April.

Are you mowing yet? How frequently are you watering?

What is these stuff the grass wants to go to sleep? It has been sleeping for a few months, what it wants is FOOD.

You should have waited on that Milorganite for at least another month. Synthetic fertilizer is what your grass needs right now. Contrary to what most people believe, grass does not care if is synthetic or organic. The grass wants food that's available now, not 2 months away.

And why are you watering? Spring is the perfect time to trained your grass roots to look for water deeper into the soil. Get some Weed-B-Gon or Bayer and spray those weeds already, it's not going to hurt the grass.

You should have fertilized your lawn back in April with synthetic fertilizers and weed control, and today you could have had kentucky bluegrass sod without weeds.

Getting the grass up and going early in the season gives the lawn more time to get established before the heat of the summer. The longer you wait, the shorter your Spring growth is going to be.

Forcing rapid leaf group at the expense of root growth is not a good thing! We all agree that grass needs nitrogen in the forms of nitrate and ammonia. Organics and chemicals both provide this. Fertilize heavily in the fall.

These seedlings need one thing roots. If they had more roots they would be absorbing more nutrients and growing better. Our spring has been very dry and with shallow roots, I can see why he is watering (weekly?).

Nobody is talking about forcing rapid leaf growth, I'm talking about fertilizing on time and not waiting until June or early July for the grass to start feeding. And you shouldn't fertilize heavy in the Fall either. You should always fertilize based on soil tests and at the recommended rate.

Grass seedlings are like teenagers, they needs tons of food. Not excesibly, just the right amount for a period of time.

Very dry spring? I don't think so. I checked the weather.com page under Grafton, MA. Plenty of rain with the exception of the last 2 weeks in April. And 2 weeks without rainfall is exactly what you want in order to train those roots to go deep in the soil.

Just some thoughts on synthetics in early spring:

I renovated last year as well, but failed to drop my final fall fertilizer, for no good reason. By winter I had a few yellowing patches that looked like fertilizer starvation to me. They were still here this spring, so I decided to give the lawn a 1/2 application of synthetics on 3/23. Given that the grass was mostly dormant at the time I imagine that a bit of this just leached away. I wasn't thrilled about that but felt that I just neeeded to do something for those starving patches. I mean, they weren't going to feed themselves....

On April 9 I dropped 0-0-7 Dimension (Lesco) at the "program 3 rate" to try to get the greatest amount of control provided by that product. On the 15th I spot sprayed what seemed like thousands of weedlings with WBG. Surprising to me, this knocked out many of them, even so early.

I followed that up with a full pound of synthetic nitrogen in a Weed and Feed product (I know, I know, but it was leftover from last year and I was glad to be able to use it up) on April 27. The yellow spots greened up soon afterward, and, putting aside all of the claims about how weed and feed doesn't really work, it did take out most of the rest of my broadleafs.

Then on May 8 I dropped Jonathan Green's Organic Lawn Fertilizer at a rate of .8/lbs. N per thousand feet, and I think I'm done feeding for at least a month.

The result of all of this flaunting of the conventional wisdom (not by design, but mostly on uncontrollable impulse) is that I have very few broadleaf weeds, the grass has assumed a uniform dark green color, and though I have mowed probably 7 times already, none of those mowings has taken much off, as the grass is still growing very slowly in a vertical sense, though it is already actively filling in many bare spots left from some animal damage last year.

I have no idea whether I have compromised my root system by doing this, though my gut tells me that, if I have, not much. For one thing, I have read and do believe that this KBG needs a gross amount of food while it is getting established. Another is that, until recently (and even now I would guess), most people tended to fertilize heavily with synthetics in the spring, and the relatively new conventional wisdom about the advantages of fall versus spring feedings, while probably true, does not mean that you automatically kill your grass by feeding heavily in spring. The idea that no one every noticed the catastrophic grass killing aspects of the old method strikes me as unlikely. I think it is more likely that, if you do decide to fertilize in early spring, then you need to be extra vigilant in watching for drought damage later in the season, and stay on top of your mowing.

Just my $.02, based on my limited experience with this new renovation.

I think the point is that is has not warmed up enough yet.
I have an established 2005 renovation that is dark green but not growing much either, the soil is still cold.

I fertilized in October and November, then again as soon as I could in early April, late April, then this past Saturday. Yes it was organic...just like I did in 2006 and 2007. The last two years I had been mowing everything at least 3 times by now, but not this year. I haven't mowed yet, not even the established lawn. Cold Cold Cold.

Weed B Gone was put on last week, you should see some of the weeds turning limp in the pictures. There is dark green growth on the edge of the driveway, thats due to the warth of the asphalt heating the adjacent soil.

As for the sprinklers...they are only on to get a little water on the fertilizer. We have had some rain this month, .85 inches, not a lot but the soil is still damp.

I did toss some 29-0-5 on one small 500 sq/ft area on Saturday, it has not done anything there yet either.

And yeah, it is greener today than it was Sunday, so there is some progress...just slow, thats all.

Hi egghead,

I know this is your thread, but I actually wasn't responding to your specific concerns, I just noticed a sort of "sub-debate" going on about early synthetic fertilizing and wanted to add my (recent, and incomplete) experience.

I'm sure it has been much warmer for me here, and we have had much more rain, at least recently, so I don't doubt that a big part of your trouble is just a cool spring, and a chunk of my luck is in rainfall. Glad you got some weed killer down, hopefully when our lawns fill in we won't need nearly so much.

Not sure if my personal update will help, but here goes...

My intense overseeding that was practically a renovation (scalped the lawn, dethatched, seeded) resulted in a lawn that was covered in broadleafs like yours. After spot spraying with little success, I tried the spray weed-b-gone but only had mixed success. So, on Saturday, I spread the Scotts step 2 (weed-n-feed). Four days later, I am already getting "The lawn looks great!" comments again.

I swore that I wouldn't go back to the weed-n-feed, but it worked.

Weed and feed eh? Well, Lets see what happens after the Weed B Gone works its stuff.

Anyway, I do have some good news, no, I have not mowed the new 2007 renovation yet, but it is turning green. Especialy around the driveway which is warmer...so I am happy with the color of the KBG there, the rest will follow.

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Next is the rear of the driveway, shed view.

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ANd finally, the 2005 renovation has been mowed for the first time this season. I have a little poa anuals, the seed heads are out, but it is better than last year so I am not worried about it.

But all in all, I am happy with the progess in the last week. I'll update everything next week, and hope to see pics of other yards.
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Looks great egghead! I'm sure with the WBG you put down most of those broadleafs will crispify before long.

What's the mowing height in the 2005 renovation pic? Also, in the bottom left corner of that pic you have what looks exactly like what my skunk damage from last year looks like now. Did you have something digging around there? I'm sure it will fill fine, and soon, I'm just curious.

The mowing height is 3.5 inches, I used to mow at 3.75, but I think the 3.5 looks better.

The bottom left has some filling in to do. Last fall that area really was heavily loaded with clover. After the WBG took care of that, there is need for some filling in.

The other thing that bothers me, is on the left middle part, there is a lighter shade of green. That was part of the original 2002 lawn with scotts KBG. DW never let me kill it all off when we expanded the back yard in 2005. So little by little the Elite KBG is taking over, but I hate the lighter green patches.

I think she will give in this fall, I'm gonna wipe all that side out and redo it so the entire yard is elite KBG.

How's your yard looking?

Hi egghead,

Thanks the explanation, I have some "clover damage," to call it that, in my front yard myself, so I appreciate what you have there. I'm sure your KBG will fill those spots in very little time, they look fairly small. I hope you are fertilizing well, IIRC clover thrives in soil low in nitrogen, though I imagine you have read that too.

I also very much appreciate the idea of your bowing to DW's thoughts on lawncare even though it resulted in those pale spots. No matter what you think of those, I promise you that to ignore DW's stated desires could be infinitely more expensive... And besides, now she can see the wisdom behind what you were suggesting earlier (even if she wouldn't exactly recognize it as such, but maybe that is a given...),she is on board now, or will be very soon, so you will be able to go ahead and do what is necessary in the fall. Delayed gratification maybe, but certainly best for the "domestic tranquility."

My lawn is growing well, thanks for asking. The main problems are things you can't see in my photos (not intentionally, they apparently just don't show very well). First is a depression roughly in the middle of the yard, maybe three inches deep, deepest near the garage but extending roughly to the other side of the yard, caused by a poorly installed (or rather poorly backfilled and topdressed) drywell. That area sank in a major way with all of the watering from last fall's renovation, and I need to start a topdressing program as soon as I think the grass can handle it. Unfortunately, from what I have read it looks like it will take many very light applications of topsoil or sharp sand to get where I want to be, each one risking smothering the grass if I am not careful.

Next is Poa, which I hope to treat with a heavy application of Dimension in the fall, followed by aggressive plant-by-plant removal of whatever is still growing very early next spring. I would have tried the aggressive removal approach this spring, but I have so many of them, and so many crabgrass seeds in the soil, that I preferred to keep the pre-emergent barrier intact to stop the other annuals (like CG) at the expense of letting the Poa continue to grow and set seed. Next year I hope my grass is mostly thick enough to shade out the CG earlier in the season, so the barrier would be less important, so I can feel free to rip up all the Poa I can, before it seeds again. I'm still not sure if this was the right decision, will let you know next spring I guess...

So, grass is growing great, I need to deal with uneven settling and Poa, but given the previous state of my prior yard I actually feel good about these being my only major problems!

Best,
Paul

I'll tell you it has been a battle for me too this spring.

You know, in 2005 I seeded and we had a horrible 17 days of no sun and 15" of rain. My grass never stood a chance.
So in 2006 when it was all brown in April, I just fed it a little starter and a lot of soybean meal. WOW dod it take off. Then I habd major low areas similar I am sure to the area you speak of, and had to fill in 3-4 " of loam and seed in 9/2006. So now comes 2007, no big deal it all grows with milargonite this time.

OK well 2007 we reconstructed the driveway and front yard, so more grass neeeded to be planted. We tried August, and what seemed to be super success.

So back to my original thought...2008 shows up with WEEDS up the wazoo! UNREAL! The other bad thing...you have not seen pics of my 2005 renovation of the other side of the front lawn...it is all POA triv and annuals, a disaster.

So while I bask in the light of the nice thick carpet in my back yard, I struggle with the uglyness of my front yard which everyone can see including my know it all chemical water everyday neighbor down the street. He looks with a devilish smile when he jogs by every vening with his wife.

Oh but I will be the victor in this battle...my backyard is way darker and more filled in than his "picture perfect" front yard...but hey, people only see the front from the road so I have my work cut out.

I'll be waiting for your updates.

Later...

My lawn is going pretty slow too. I mowed the other day again, I probably cut about 35% of the grass, the rest of it was still too short. I've already put down two applications of fertilizer. I think it's time for a third this weekend. That's three applications, three weeks apart :)

anyways. it's getting better. we've had a good system of rain / dry / rain / dry and it's greeing up for sure. there are still some areas that just don't look like much yet. I'm hoping for some thickening & tillering soon

Short and sweet.

It's been warm here, things are finaly shaping up. The lawn is darker when the sun is not so bright, but I wanted to show the azalia also. They are bright this year.

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Wowowowo looking good egghead. I'm a little behind you but mine's looking better. I'm wondering if I'm not fertilizing right. I'm going two directions but I feel like it just isn't that evenly greening up. I have very green areas and still other areas that are lighter in color and lower.

I wonder if I need some more lime, or fertilizer. I already fertilized three times now with Scotts Turfbuilder.

Well it is August and I have done nothing else but mow. The lawn is looking great. Here is the latest, a little bleached from the bright sun, but you get the point.

I have not dropped anything on this since may, cutting every 4-5 days at about 4".

I do want to get some soybean meal down, but wow it's gonna cost over $100.

The pic of the back is not mowed, the grass is about 6" there.

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Cheers!

Looking great!! And it will be darker next season than this season.

Find some Milorganite, or some Bay State Organic, and drop that now. You still want the big feeding (twice) in the fall, but it will use all the food you throw at it now. Dunno what it does with it, but it uses it, and it's aggressive as can be, when fed.

The sludge based stuff doesn't go up as much in price. They still have to get rid of it, don't they?

Great job!

There's just nothing like a full renovation with quality seeds appropriate to the area. After years of mostly failed overseedings and patch jobs I am glad to have finally learned that lesson.

Congratulations!
Paul

Paul,
Same here, I've never had great luck with the box store seeds. YUeah, it grew for one season, then thats it, weeds and POA tok over leaving bare spots in the fall that would be filled in by clover.

philes21,
You're right, I do have to get something down. It is not as dark as it was in June. Even the Milargonite has gone up in price a bit, one full dose (11 bags) is still going to be about $120 I'm looking around to see who sells it the cheapest here, that seams to be Lowes at $10.99 a bag.