Your blueberry shrubs are all pretty spindly looking, not what I would expect after three or four years. Here in Madison, Wisconsin, getting the soil pH down from around 7.5 to maybe 6, or a little lower, has been the single most important and difficult problem. Our native soil contains limestone, and our groundwater sits in limestone beds, and it also contains limestone. That is, we have hard water. Blueberry shrubs will not absorb nutrient from the soil very well if the pH is over 6. Optimum soil pH is said to be around 4.5, but I have never been able to achieve this. Have you checked your soil pH? With regard to survival over the winter, our blueberry shrubs seem to do fine. I have noticed that the dwarf shrubs, we have two of these, get buried in snow, and spend the winter months protected from both severe weather and rabbits. But dwarf blueberry shrubs seem to yield little fruit, maybe a cup per plant.

Hi K-man-
Beautiful place you've got there. Very impressive!

Lots of yellow jackets you got there. Have you tried putting out traps? Im doing that now. Make sure they really are yellow jackets and not Rasberry Crown Borers which look exactly like Yellow Jackets. In your case, looking at the damage to the berries, IÂm pretty sure you (And I) have YJs and not RCBÂs. See here.

If you look at "My Page", you can see all the berries that IÂm growing.

This is a pretty broad topic. You might get more focused responses if you break this into say 10 threads!

I'm a little worried about you planting the Triple Crowns. I say that not from experience, but rather just what others here have said. According to others here, they start seeing cane dieback around -5F. We usually get down to around 0 here, maybe -3 or so, but I can't remember the last time I saw -5. So, I've always thought I'm right on the edge. Do you get much below that? Do you protect your plants in any way? Maybe if your boysenberries survive fine, your TC's will as well. If I was in doubt, I'd try the Chester's first. Although some people 'diss Chester for being a bit more tart, I like tart things, and I think they're generally more cold hardy. I just planted mine TCÂs, Doyles, and Wyeberries this spring. So far, so good.

What varieties of Gooseberry were you thinking of planting? ThereÂs a good amount of debate if you search these threads on whether or not to give them full sun. Some of us have had some tough luck with the Pixwell and other poorer varieties, so make sure you pick out one of the better varieties.

I did get two lingonberries this year, and they seem to be doing fine, but I havenÂt gotten any berries yet.

IÂve been growing the Kiwi GoldÂs for a while, and due to their uniqueness and vigor, I find them as one of my favorite varieties. Just planted the AnneÂs this year. TheyÂre not very productive, but the ones IÂve had are some of the best raspberries IÂve sampled. IÂve received mixed reviews (here on GW) on the purple RoyaltyÂs that I planted this year (people said that a good red or a good black is better than a good purple), so IÂm not quite as excited about them, but weÂll see how they do.

IÂm not sure IÂve ever seen anyone here talk about Metolius .

Other people have Âdissed the Tayberries saying that if you wait for them to sweeten up, they turn to mush. HereÂs a thread you might like all about TayÂs and other related berries.. I eventually chose my Wyeberry in place of the Tay. ItÂs growing well, but weÂll see how they taste next year.

How do you like the boyenberries? Have they survived your winters ok, or are they newer? I had considered planting them at one time, and canÂt remember offhand why I passed on them.

Hope this helps,
-Glenn

ericwi I know my blueberries have needed better care to keep the ph down but i didn't realize 4.5 is preferred. The ph for my plants is probably around 6 or maybe 6.5 after these few years. When is the best time to condition/fertilize the soil for blueberries? I have some huge piles of horse manure that should be pretty broken down by the spring. I'm hoping this will help. Anyone have some good remedies for getting soil ph down?

Hi glenn. I remember you responded to another post of mine but i have since been quite busy in the garden and it took me some time to get the picture business to work with my computer. Thanks for the compliment about my place. I moved out to this place about 7 years ago with my family. We have 5 acres total but 4 are presently in use for my stepdad's horses. Our house sits on 1 acre and this is where our garden has expanded. It started out with my sisters and I buying my mom a fruit tree for Mother's Day or for her birthday. Every year we planted a little more than the previous year. When i got into high school we really have been expanding and now its only a year since i graduated. I plan on not keeping a job during the summer because of all the work involved. Next spring i will have this acre filled up. If all goes well i intend to expand to a second acre and possibly more. I hope this gives everyone some background to my situation. I also have posted more pictures of my property to give a larger view.

As far as winters go here it seems they continue to get milder each year. Older gardeners say 20 years ago zone 4 was our limit. But since then we have changed to a zone 5. We can have a couple weeks in a row of snow and have up to 3 feet in good years. There are good chances of below zero conditions with most of it from wind chill. I'd say at the very worst it can get -10 to -20 F maybe once of twice during the winter for a couple days. Then some winters we have had very little is any snow on the ground for 2-4 week gaps in either December or January.

I planted my boysenberries i believe in spring of 2007. In the spring of '08 most of the canes didnt survive the winter except the biggest ones nearer the ground. In "08 all my boysenberries grew exceptionally bushy and seemed healthy although i did no pruning that year. I mulched my boysenberries and blackberries with straw in the fall '08. This year most of blackberries and boysenberries canes didnt survive the winter as it was an exceptionally colder one and we had some very cold weather in March. I'm hoping it was a combination of poor training and pruning and the unusually cold weather timing that killed them. Although a few of the lower laterals on my Chesters fruited and i am still picking a nice handful every few days. And the berries taste delicious. This year i did a better job pruning the canes to about 6 per plant and this year i would say the bases of the canes are at least 5 times thicker than last year. Hopefully if i provide some much better winter protection i should have better results.
If anyone has some good techniques on hardy winter protection for blackberries, Boysenberries and really any others that are less hardy in my climate it would be greatly appreciated.

For gooseberries I bought a Hinnomaki Red at a local nursery but were not impressed with their other varieties. I'd like to try out 5 or 6 varieties. I'm considering Hinnomaki yellow, Black Velvet, Invicta, Jewel and a Jostaberry so far. But i'm open to others just for a variety of flavors for cooking and fresh eating. I took some pictures of the two rows where i intend to plant one with Gooseberries and the other with more varieties of currants. I'll have it under the Gooseberry album if anyone has some suggestions of thoughts of which row should be Gooseberry/Currant, visa versa.

I like to get a variety of opinions on growing these different varieties of berries as some (supposedly) zone 5 hardy plants seem more skeptical. This year i probably only got a few dozen berries off my boysenberry plants but boy were they delicious. Better than any blackberry i have tasted. If only i could grow Marionberry.

You can get about 15 degrees worth of protection on blackberries by putting all the berry canes on the ground and then covering with insulation. It is also best that the top is something waterproof, to keep the canes from rotting from sitting in too much wetness. I have used aluminum-covered bubble insulation for this purpose -- tack down the sides with ground with ground staples. Since the canes are right by the ground and covered you will get a lot of ground warmth coming up to warm them up. I can grow Marions in my zone with this method. The primary drawback is the time it takes to put all the canes down in the fall and then back up next spring, and trying to keep from breaking the long canes in this process. This method also works for trailing types only - for the erect types the canes may be too difficult to bend down. (I have never tried with erect types since they are all hardy in my zone; it may in fact not be so hard to do).

Scott

Hi Scott-
I can see in my future a nice new hinged trellis. Which I could slowly bend to the ground in winter time to grow some Marions!

The-k-man-
Here's an idea: From what I've heard, the cold doesn't actually kill the blackberry, but rather causes cane dieback. What if you went with a primocane fruiting blackberry like Prime Jim/Jan? There have been a few positive reports lately here on this forum about them. Then, if the canes did die back, it wouldn't be such a big deal, as you'd still get crops the next year. Perhaps this is why Nourse lists them down to zone 4 where most other blackberries only go to zone 6?
-Glenn

Scott I don't think that would work for my erect blackberries except there are a few canes that i train to within a foot or less of the ground that might be able to work. For my Boysenberries that is a possibility and if i decide to get more trailing blackberries i found a website that shows a good technique to train trailing varieties for winter protection. Check it out. Although it is more directed for the west/northwest U.S. I'm sure the techniques are suitable for most colder areas.

Glenn i have been confused on the hardiness of the everbearing blackberries. On Raintree Nursery's website they say Prime Jan is only hardy to zone 7-9. If anyone can confirm Prime Jim/Jan hardiness it would be helpul.

The berry experts at Nourse have it down to zone 4. I haven't checked anywhere else, but Nourse's specializes in Brambles, so I'd suspect their info to be correct.

Great effort K-man, keep it up! If I remember crrectly from my school days, dessication in the winter is what kills a lot of above ground tissue, therefore whatever you can do to keep the wind down will help. On red raspberries, the fall-bearers can be mowed in the fall after fruiting is done and mulched as heavy as you want to guard against frost heaving, etc.. As mentioned by scott, cane bending is a very good strategy, try selecting varieties that are amenable to it. My Lathams (floricane bearer) have survived 10 below for a week with about 1 foot of dieback and they weren't even layed down and covered, good old Latham. Ask me next April or May about Caroline and Purple Royalty.

I think you may already know it but mulch the ground several inches deep over the strawberries and raspberries in the fall, I suspect the same would be true of your other small fruits unless the mulch would be a place for species specific pests to overwinter.

BTW, mulching with horse apples will not change the soil pH very much no matter how deep the pile.

Michael

Glenn i read the description at Nourse and I'm very excited if they are indeed zone 4 hardy. I'm already deciding where to build a 20-30 foot row with probably a few plants of each. I would be curious to know if they had a spreading habit similar to a raspberry or keep the normal compact growth at the base of blackberries.

Micheal I already mowed my strawberries last weekend and plan on mulching them with leaves probably in a few weeks or when we start getting heavy frosts. Could be a while as we had 85-95 degree weather last week. But it rained yesterday and it's very cloudy so i think fall has finally come here. The only fallbearing raspberries i have are two rows of Fall Gold yellow raspberries, which I'm not too impressed with but if the yellow jackets were not so bad i could probably pick a few gallons before it frosts hard. I'm also considering not cutting the Fall Golds down to the ground this fall/winter. I may let them overwinter and just cut off the top parts that are fruiting now this winter. Or maybe just cut down one row all the way, and the other the new way. If i get a decent early crop in June/July maybe the yellow jackets won't be a problem. Also i have a row of raspberries that were labeled Caroline at my local farmer's market which had a small crop of say 2 cups this summer off the small canes that overwintered. I thought it was a summer raspberry when i bought it. I didn't realize Caroline was a fallbearing variety until i did some reading online this past couple months. But so far there have been no blossoms so I am questioning whether it was labeled wrong at the market or if it a late variety not suited for my area. I'll try to get a picture up of the canes to see if anyone can notice similarities or differences between my "Caroline" raspberries and any others who truly have this variety.

Hi K-man. All sounds good. Just remember, that I don't have any personal experience with Prime Jim/Jan, nor experience with zone 4, so I'm just speculating. Nourse is usually quite good with their info, but then again, any nursery is biased. You could also try giving them a call as well. In addition, I'd look for other references saying Prime Jim/Prime Jan are OK in zone 4.

Yeah, you're not alone with "Fall Gold". Many other people on this forum have not been impressed with them. If it were me, once I got the Kiwi Gold's and the Anne's in, I'd take out the Fall Gold's.

I grow Caroline as well. It's one of my favorite varieties. Very large, good tasting berries. Prelude is another one of my favorites here.

-Glenn

I'm going to give the Fall Gold's another year and if next year is just as disappointing as this one then i will pull them. Next year I also plan on putting in Rosanna, Prelude, Encore, Nova, Autumn Britten, Summit, and Himbo Top red raspberries. All will be in somewhat small maybe 3x10 rows but i want to see which ones do best in my climate.

I don't think i will have a problem getting Anne as well but i can't seem to find a source local or online to buy from. Perhaps i can trade with someone? I don't know when or how i would ship some raspberry plants to someone. Anyone have advice?

Glenn maybe you would be open to swapping some plants?

Thanks Kelvin

Also added some pictures of my possible "Caroline" raspberries.

k-man: you're certainly on the right path trying many different varieties and methods. The link to your rasp. pics took me to the sign in page for Photobucket (I think it was) where your pictures are downloaded to as opposed to the actual URL where the pics. can be viewed.

For some reason, lucky me, the Carolines I planted this spring took off and have been giving me far more fruit than I expected for I'd guess the last 6 weeks. Production is slowing down now with cooler weather but there are many canes with new fruits that likely make it to ripeness due to expected future Fall weather. Like Glenn said, my plants are producing large, delicious berries, can't wait till the canes are big and established. My experience in the past planting Heritage and Royalty led me to not expect much from the Carolines in their 1st year, I was wrong.

Michael

Hi K-man-

I've thought about swapping plants, but with Nourse selling the plants so cheap, it just seems easier than digging up, packaging, and shipping them out. The money you save by trading, you'd probably loose when you ship the dirt! (Besides, Im not positive the best way to ship the established plants) But, if I have something that others can't get online, or vice versa, then I'd certainly consider it. In this case, Nourse does indeed have Anne, so that'd probably be your best route.

Prelude - Even though I've only been growing it for a couple years, it's one of my favorites. Big tasty berries that just keep coming.
Encore - I've got 2 beds of this. For some reason, this variety didn't actually give me berries until its 3rd year. I thought it was because they were in a good amount of shade. This year, they gave me quite a few berries, so I'm happy with them now.
Rosanna - Never heard of it!
Autumn Britten - The bed that I have makes nice large berries, but the bed really has never filled in. Still only a few canes, albeit quite thick ones. If this were Kiwi Gold, 5 canes would have become 100. In this case, 5 because 10 canes. I guess that's good because you don't need to thin them really. I wonder if my case is unique?

The link above just brought me to the photobucket home page, but I was able to find the pics using the original link. The degree of thorniness and color of the canes, etc, all looks consistent with my Caroline's. I just went outside and took a look at mine to make sure. If you get good sided, sweeter-than-most everbearing-raspberries, I think you can be confident that theyre Carolines.
-Glenn

Sorry about the bad link. I wasn't sure if the new page would work. But if the old link works you should be able to find your way around. I really hope this variety turns out to be Caroline. I may try pruning half the row down to the ground and leaving the other half of the row's canes to overwinter and see when the fruit comes.

I planted some lingonberries this past summer (2009). I had never tasted them before, but had read about their fabulous health benefits. One plant got a half dozen berries on it, so just before freezing weather hit, I picked them. Out of curiosity, I popped them into my mouth, expected them to be hard and sour like cranberries, but they were soft and tasted about like eating canned jelled cranberries. I kept chicken wire over the plants to protect them from birds and mulched them heavily with peat. Just before winter hit, I covered them with straw, also. I've read that the winter protection is very important. Amend the soil to have it acid, even more so than for blueberries. They also can take, or maybe even prefer, a little shade in the hottest part of the day. I have also planted honeyberries, which only had two berries so far, but those were tasty. Using Myco root fungus powder at planting seems to have helped my plantings, also. Now I am thinking of trying aronia, which I would put through a juicer and add to other fruit juice. (I haven't tasted that yet, either.) It is supposed to be one of the eight best wonder fruits in the world for antioxidants, etc.