explain what "Open Pollinated" really means?
hairmetal4ever
10 years ago
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farmerdill
10 years agoRelated Discussions
Explain~Cross Pollination? Open Pollination?
Comments (7)To the plant, pollination is pollination. To the gardener who wants particular results (such as wanting to keep an heirloom variety pure), cross-pollination (cross-breeding) is something to avoid. To a grower or scientist who is trying to create a new variety, cross-pollination is desirable. It's all on your point of view. Like Dave said, some varieties are very genetically stable, like his Nantes carrots. Others, like curcubits, are notorious for cross-pollinating. If you're growing certain kinds of decorative gourds, and zucchini or other squashes, insects will cross-pollinate them very easily, and if you saved the seeds from your wonderful zucchini and planted them, they could end up being something almost unrecognizable and tasteless. "Does cross pollination always create a hybrid?" Yes and no. Technically, every pollinated plant is producing a hybrid, because every plant from every seed has a tiny, microscopic difference from the plant next to it, although it is, for most purposes, the same. Only cuttings, cloned or tissue-cultured plants are exactly the same as the parent stock. Plants labeled 'hybrids' have been crossed from plants with noticeably different qualities. If you crossed two of these 'hybrids', they would most likely revert back to the qualities of one or the other of the 'parents'. Granny Smith apples came from crabapples. If you planted a Granny Smith seed and nutured it for several years, you would probably end up with some sort of crabapple or similar variation. Two additional bits of info (just to confuse you a little more ;-) ): 1) You can be growing two similar plants near each other, but if they flower at different times, they won't (can't) cross-pollinate. Corn is a good example: there are early, mid-season and late varieties of corn. Corn cross-pollinates easily because it's wind-borne, but if they tassle (the 'flower') at different times and there is no other corn around (esp upwind), they won't cross. If Alfie's apples (above) needed a pollinator variety, and he accidentally planted a variety that bloomed a month after his Macintosh, he wouldn't get any apples. 2) OP varieties can be 'manipulated' even within the variety. You can have a packet of seed of a single variety of an OP plant, and each seed inside will have a tiny difference about it. Many people will grow a particular variety that they like, and they will watch for 'special' ones among that variety: a tiny bit earlier, a slightly larger fruit, a sweeter flavor, a slightly higher yield, etc, and they will mark it and let a few fruits of that plant mature and collect the seed. The next year, they plant that seed, and again look for 'special' plants. Every year, they keep doing this, and end up (hopefully) with localized variety within a named variety that is especially suited to their local conditions. It's still the same variety, it's still OP, it's just an improved variation within that variety. If you bought seeds from a grower in BC, and you bought the same variety from a grower in ON, the local seeds might produce plants that had a slight edge on local conditions, concerning earliness, adaptibility to hot summers, or ability to grow with a bit less water. The seeds from BC might adapt better to cooler summers, more humidity, and a longer season....See MoreOpen Pollinated or Not?
Comments (4)Not open pollinated,not isolated. O.P. means just that bees etc were left to do their thing. BUT not in mixed company. Couldn't resist. lol Usually open pollinated means for the most part,the self pollinated plants were not hand pollinated but were the required distance from other varieties. At the same time since peppers are self pollinating,it usually takes a bee or whatever that is carrying other pollan to make a hybrid.(get past the buds own pollen). I can't remember getting a cross from my indoor plants with no fan or help in setting pods. When you see seed Co, offering OP seeds they mean they grew a crop of only that variety far enough away from other plants that might cross. The plants weren't physically isolated or hand pollinated,but were kept whatever distance away from possibly pollen donors elsewhere. I grow a LOT of my seed stock indoors in 4 1/2 inch pots until I get a pod or 2. Then they go outside. SASBE are from mostly non isolated stuff,my personal stash is isolated +/- inside. Not trying to be an a$$ ,just explaining the way I think things work in general. In your greenhouse I'd bet most all pods are not crosses unless your fan blew a couple buds together so they actually rubbed each other. Also,I think temps have more to do with setting pods than blowing pollan around. The way a pod is set up by nature makes the pollen fall in the right places. I used a fan at one time and found very little difference in pod set. I did find with starts it made for some stronger trunks and stems. To me the few times I used a fan and paint brush to get pods from indoor plants,it sucked. Fan blew all the pollen around so brushing buds was actually spreading pollen that was on the buds/leaves/wherever but not where it could pollinate the bud. I polluted natures way of doing the brush thing I think. Once I left my plants alone I got no crosses when using seed I knew was pure-or was supposed to be pure. Best thing I've found was let nature do it's thing. Fans I think aren't good for pollination(in my opinion). But are good to get strong starts. Depending on the pepper variety etc.they are designed so the pollen drops where needed.-gravity. Ya I saw tons of pollen fall when I tapped my branches but I think nature might hold onto the pollen until the right time before it gets released and drops. As a side note,some buds face up(Frutescens and a few others). So my theory isn't bullet proof. LOL Just to be safe,maybe just use the pods for seeds that are farthest away from plants that may cross. I really see a fan as a possible wrench in your machine,depending if you are just lightly shaking up your plants with it or giving them hurricane force winds spreading pollen everywhere in the greenhouse. Hard to say. It's kinda like the guys who spray pepper juice for bug control. If a bug feeds on pods,you wasted your time and every time you touch your plants the stuff gets on you...Burn baby burn,I hope you didn't touch a sensitive part of your body after checking out the garden... IIf you are selling seeds,test grow a few. If they are Annums you have time to see purity. OR sell them at a reduced price saying they are OP(not isolated but greenhouse grown and should be pure...) If trade seeds,I wouldn't worry about it,usually most trade seeds are not isolated. Almost ALL the super hot seeds for trade these days are crosses from pods people purchased at a high price. Most are unstable etc. A lot are all kinds of other things not even crosses of supers. I'd just tell whoever you are giving the seeds to,the exact same thing you posted above. Let the customer or trader decide. People like honesty and will most likely trade or buy from you(if you are selling seeds). Too many rip offs these days with the super hot mania going on lately. People will also let you know if the seeds grew true,not in a pissed off way. They will like your honesty and don't mind a cross or 2 and probably will get at least a majority of true looking plants from your seeds. Several people over the years trade with me mostly because I tell them what they are getting-isolated or possible crosses....See MoreWhat does % really mean in the long run?
Comments (7)The charts have been updated. You can ask your pediatrician for information about the chart they use (when was it put into use for example, to see if it's recent). Sometimes, maybe most of the time people do stay on their growth lines into adulthood. Sometimes they don't for no good reason at all, or at least for no known reason. Babies who have been small, and who have been small as children can sprout up tall with the changes of puberty. Some can go the other way, as if they just started out fast and caught up to themselves in adolescence and adulthood. Because I've seen both of those happen (plus a lot of people who seemed to maintain their same percentiles) I wouldn't plan on anything too much. The percentiles are mainly to catch problems. Babies can't give detailed verbal information about their symptoms. Tracking their head circumference can be the only way to catch some scary problems early. Tracking their height and weight percentiles can be the only way to catch or even know to look for some metabolic problems or things that can cause a 'failure to thrive' which is a major symptom. The cdc charts were revised in 2000. Prior to that they were dated from 1977 and tended to be more representative of formula-fed babies. These page address can give up to date information. The first address is to the 'background' page which explains the differences and how the 2000 charts are different. The second page has links to those updated clinical charts. They appear to be printable and in pdf format. http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/about/major/nhanes/growthcharts/background.htm http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/about/major/nhanes/growthcharts/clinical_charts.htm This page address has a kind of intermediate chart set for breastfed infants. They were prepared in 1994 and is based on (only) 226 breastfed infants who did not have any solids before 4 months of age. These are only age/length and age/weight charts. (The units are weight in kilograms, length in centimeters, and age in months). http://www.promom.org/bf_info/growth.html make sure your pediatrician is using the most up to date charts...See MoreSaving seeds- open pollinated?
Comments (5)"I know I cannot save seeds from hybrids? " Why? Alot of people like hybrids, including myself. There are many good hybrid plants out there that some of us look for. Take the Reaper for example. It is a cross. Everyone wants it. It is still unstable too. Just be sure to label your plants as a hybrid, F1 (1st gen) F2 (2nd gen) so on, and tell us what it is crossed with if you know. Sometimes a description or photo helps too. If it is cool, we will ask you to save us seeds. Super-cool, ask becomes begging. :) Saving seeds from Open Pollinated plants are fine. As long as you tell us it is OP and the plant name, most of us are ok with that. Hybrids occur maybe 2-5 percent of the time on OP. Some say 1%, I go a little higher. For me, that's the fun of raising chili plants from seeds. Many here cover their plants for pure seeds, but IMO I think even then, you still get hybrids. Of course it is more controlled but it is not 100% certain....See Morelittle_minnie
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