Sourcing dwarf fruit trees

14 years ago

Pretty set on the type and quatity of dwarf fruit trees I would like to plant next year. Now comes the problem of sourcing them.

I also have a question for members. It's a two part question.

1 - I have read that trees sold in garden centers and the like are sometimes called whips , that they are often so puny they don't survive the first winter (I plan to grow in ground and I live in zone 6) and that when possible one should opt for trees that have grown for at least 2-3 years and been pruned back to develop good branching.

2 - I was refered to a nursery called Fast Growing Tree Nursery. They have nurseries in 6 states I believe. They sell trees that have been encouraged in some way and are often 3 or more years old. They are also considerable more expensive that the same trees in garden centers. Has anyone used this nursery ? Did their trees live up to expectations ?

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Comments (13)

myk1
14 years ago
1 - Where did you read that? Because it's far from the truth in all matters.
"Garden centers" usually don't sell whips, they sell pot bound, over grown, mismarked trees. They are the ones more likely to give you problems.
It's mail order that sells bareroot whips. They will survive winters much worse than yours. They are the right age to not notice the transplant.

2 - Never heard of the place. But going by the name they are preying on the newbie's desire to get big trees, not knowing that is the opposite of what you want.
I would find out if they are the ones that actually graft and grow their tree.
frozen_north
14 years ago
What myk1 said.

If you're going to buy trees (grafting them yourself is a much less expensive alternative but you end up losing a year and there's more fiddling around), in general, the best thing to do is buy from one of the better mail order places. In general, you want a bare-root, one-year old tree, which you are going to plant early in the spring as soon as the ground can be worked. Cummins, Fedco, and Miller have all given me excellent service, and there are lots of other good mail-order nurseries you could use that would have the warmer-climate varieties you might want.

The "fast growing trees" place charges $129 for a Gravenstein apple tree, plus typically $22 shipping, according to their website, for a 5'-7' tree. I personally see this as a poor value even if fruiting is accelerated when I can buy five bare-root trees for the same money. And I am not convinced that fruiting would indeed be accelerated by much because of the greater transplant shock.

If you have a nursery near you that sells bare root stock out of a refrigerated area in the spring, and you believe you can count on them having what you want in stock, that's a good route as well.
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Ashley (just sent you an email), We only live a couple hours apart and we see the same trees at big box and nurseries. You're probably seeing "ultra" on the Pacific Groves trees, right? Some are in bags (bareroot) at various places and some in the fiberpot containers (Lowes). If so, you can drop the term "ultra" and just consider it dwarf. Dwarf and semi-dwarf are what you're aware of: "regular trees on lower vigor rootstocks". These are prolific at nurseries and big box stores alike. Genetic dwarf, aka Miniatures or "true dwarf" are more rare, they are "dwarf trees on whatever (typically regular sized) rootstock". I think you already understand stocks especially how dwarf stocks ideally encourage fruit at younger age (early bearing) and retain a heavier fruit set (precocious). Each stock is different in various properties like size reduction, early bearing, preciousness, disease resistance, soil tolerance, and so forth. The rootstock is *mostly* what makes dwarf and semi-dwarf so small -- the lower vigor. The scion of certain varieties can be somewhat dwarfing and so can their tolerance of summer pruning. It ALL depends on variety, rootstock, and growing conditions. Thus why I've spent countless hours researching the various stocks and varieties before I go buying and planting gobs of them in my yard. Take the Babcock peach, very common. It can be grafted onto Lovell as full sized, on Citation is considered semi-dwarf, on Pumiselect called dwarf (PG calls it Ultra) but Babcock will never be a miniature (genetic dwarf). Just as Necta-Zee (another newer genetic dwarf) will never be a semi-dwarf or full sized tree. The mini's are very small, though their size differs based on variety, but many are 3 feet tall (unpruned) after 2 years old in the ground, whereas the PG ultra-dwarf could be like 6 feet by then. LE Cooke (near Visalia) also produces miniature trees, but I'm not sure the volume since I've only found a couple local nurseries that have ever had any -- and those nurseries don't plan to stock them anymore. The folks at LE Cooke have not responded to my inquiries. Nevertheless, they have an awesome website with cool photos of their genetic dwarfs. Here is a link that might be useful: Take a look at LE Cooke's Site
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OK Jim, here's my list. I believe all the one's with an excellent or very good Garden Watchdog rating would be safe bets. For the ones with a good rating, read the reviews on Garden Watchdog yourself and/or do a little more research before buying. The ones on the bottom list are companies that I would avoid. Here are some good* mail order sources for various types of fruit plants: *Sources with poorer ratings are listed separately below. Adams County Nursery - various fruit tree types - excellent G.WD. rating - http://www.acnursery.com/ Bay Laurel Nursery - multiple types of fruit and nut trees and plants - very good G.WD. rating - http://www.baylaurelnursery.com/ Big Horse Creek Farm - apple trees - excellent G.WD. rating - http://www.bighorsecreekfarm.com/ Blossom Nursery - pawpaw trees & seeds - limited, excellent G.WD. rating - http://www.blossomnursery.com/ Boston Mountain Nurseries - affiliated with Arkansas Berry & Plant Farm and Pense Nursery - multiple types of berries and grapes - very limited, excellent G.WD. rating (warning! Arkansas Berry & Plant Farm has a very poor rating!)_- http://www.alcasoft.com/bostonmountain/ Boyer Nurseries & Orchards, Inc. - multiple types of fruit trees and plants and nut trees - limited, excellent G.WD. rating - http://www.boyernurseries.com/ Burnt Ridge Nursery - various types of fruit - very good G.WD. rating - http://www.burntridgenursery.com/ Century Farm Orchards - apple and pear trees - limited, excellent G.WD. rating, knowledgeable and helpful owner - http://www.centuryfarmorchards.com/ Cloud Mountain Farm - various types of fruit & impressive selection of other plants - excellent G.WD. - ratinghttp://www.cloudmountainfarm.com/ C&O Nursery - various fruit trees types - limited, excellent G.WD. rating - http://www.c-onursery.com/ Cummins Nursery - various fruit trees types - excellent G.WD. rating - http://www.cumminsnursery.com/ DeGrandchamp Farm - blueberries - limited excellent G.WD. rating - http://www.degrandchamps.com/ Double A Vinyards - blueberries - excellent G.WD. rating - http://www.rakgrape.com/ Durio Nursery - various types of fruit - limited G.WD. review - http://www.durionursery.biz/ Edible Landscaping - various types of fruit - good G.WD. rating - http://www.ediblelandscaping.com/ Fedco Trees - various types of fruit - excellent G.WD. rating - http://fedcoseeds.com/trees.htm Forestfarm - huge selection of plants - excellent G.WD. rating - http://www.forestfarm.com/ fraises des bois - alpine strawberries - no G.WD. review, but my order was great! - http://www.fraisesdesbois.com/ fruit-tree.com Nursery - multiple types of fruit trees and plants - limited G.WD. review - http://www.fruit-tree.com/ Going Bananas - banana plants and corms - excellent G.WD. rating - http://www.going-bananas.com/ Grandpa's Orchard, LLC - affiliated with Moser Fruit Tree Sales, Inc. - rootstocks and various types of fruit trees and plants - very limited, excellent G.WD. rating - http://www.grandpasorchard.com/ Greenmantle Nursery - various types of fruit - excellent G.WD. rating - http://www.greenmantlenursery.com/ Hartmann's Plant Company - various types of fruit (mostly berries) - excellent G.WD. rating - http://www.hartmannsplantcompany.com/ Hidden Springs Nursery - multiple types of organically-grown fruit trees and plants - excellent G.WD. rating - http://www.hiddenspringsnursery.com/ Indiana Berry & Plant Co. - multiple types of small fruit and berries - excellent G.WD. rating - https://indianaberry.com/ Ison's Nursery & Vineyards - multiple types of fruit trees and plants (specialize in muscadines, blueberries and blackberries) - very good G.WD. rating - http://www.isons.com/ Johnson Nursery, Inc. - multiple types of fruit - excellent G.WD. rating - http://www.johnsonnursery.com/ Jung Quality Garden Seeds - multiple types of fruit trees and plants - good G.WD. rating - http://www.jungseed.com/ Krohne Plant Farms Inc. - strawberries and asparagus - limited, excellent G.WD. rating - http://www.krohneplantfarms.com/shop/ Lawson's Nursery - apples - not sure if this place is still open, the website is outdated - limited, excellent G.WD. rating - http://www.lawsonsnursery.com/ Leuthardt Nurseries, Inc. - various types of fruit (specialize in espalier) - limited, excellent G.WD. rating - http://www.henryleuthardtnurseries.com/ McKenzie Farms Nursery / World Wide Plants - unsure of products sold - excellent G.WD. rating - http://mckenzie-farms.8m.com/ Montoso Gardens - tropical fruits and seeds - excellent G.WD. rating - http://www.montosogardens.com/ Morse Nursery - various types of fruit - limited, excellent G.WD. rating - http://www.morsenursery.com/ Moser Fruit Tree Sales, Inc. - affiliated with Grandpa's Orchard LLC - rootstocks and fruit trees for commercial growers - very limited, excellent G.WD. rating - http://www.forfruittrees.com/ Nash Nurseries - pawpaw, hybrid chestnut, pine nut, etc. - limited, excellent G.WD. rating - no website - phone: 517-651-5278 Nolin River Nut Tree Nursery - persimmon, pawpaw, & multiple types of nut trees - excellent G.WD. rating - http://www.nolinnursery.com/ Nourse Farms Inc. - berries and small fruit - excellent G.WD. rating - http://www.noursefarms.com/ OIKOS Tree Crops - multiple types of fruit and nut trees and plants - excellent G.WD. rating - http://oikostreecrops.com/store/home.asp?cookiecheck=yes& Old Southern Apples Nursery - apple rootstock and custom grafts - no G.WD. rating - http://www.oldsouthernapples.com/ Peaceful Valley Farm Supply - various types of fruit trees and plants - good G.WD. rating - http://www.groworganic.com/default.html Pense Nursery - affiliated with Arkansas Berry & Plant Farm and Boston Mountain Nurseries - multiple types of berries and grapes - mixed G.WD. rating but newer entries are better - http://www.alcasoft.com/pense/ Raintree Nursery - multiple types of fruit trees and plants - good G.WD. rating - http://www.raintreenursery.com/ Rhoras Nursery - various nut and fruit trees and plants - limited, mixed G.WD. rating - http://www.nuttrees.com/ Rombough, Lon J. - grapes - limited, excellent G.WD. rating - http://www.bunchgrapes.com/ St. Lawrence Nurseries - various northern climate fruit and nut trees - excellent G.WD. rating - http://www.sln.potsdam.ny.us/ Stark Brothers Nurseries & Orchards Company - various fruit trees and plants - OK/good G.WD. rating - http://www.starkbros.com/ Tomlinson's #1 Farm - antique apple trees - no G.WD. review - http://www.netreach.net/~tugger/apples/apples.html Trees of Antiquity (formerly Sonoma Antique Apple Nursery) - multiple types of fruit trees and plants - excellent G.WD. rating - http://www.treesofantiquity.com/ Tripple Brook Farm - unusual fruits - very good G.WD. rating - http://www.tripplebrookfarm.com/ Van Well Nursery - various fruit and nut trees - excellent G.WD. rating - http://www.vanwell.net/ Vintage Virginia Apples - apple, pear, and quince trees - limited, excellent G.WD. rating - http://www.vintagevirginiaapples.com/index.html Whitman Farms - small-fruit plants and trees and nut trees - excellent G.WD. rating - http://whitmanfarms.com/ Woodlanders, Inc. - wide variety of hard-to-find southern plants - OK/good G.WD. rating - http://www.woodlanders.net/ Here are some mail order sources with poorer reviews for various types of fruit plants: Aaron's Bulb Farm, Arron's Fruit Nursery, Aaron's Nursery, etc. - see TyTy Nursery Apple Tree Nursery, Fig Tree Nursery, Pecan Tree Nursery, etc. - see TyTy Nursery Arkansas Berry & Plant Farm - affiliated with Boston Mountain Nurseries and Pense Nursery - multiple types of berries and grapes - very bad G.WD. rating - http://www.alcasoft.com/arkansas/ Autumn Ridge Nursery - various fruit and nut trees and plants - very poor G.WD. rating - http://www.autumnridgenursery.com/ Burgess Seed - various fruit and nut trees and plants - poor G.WD. rating - http://www.eburgess.com/ Direct Gardening - see Burgess Seed Gurney's Seed & Nursery - multiple types of fruit and nut trees and plants - poor G.WD. rating - http://gurneys.com/ Henry Field's Seed & Nursery - various types of fruit - poor G.WD. rating - http://henryfields.com/ House of Wesley - see Burgess Seed Inter-State Nurseries - see Burgess Seed Kelly Nurseries - see Burgess Seed Miller Nurseries - various types of fruit - OK to poor G.WD. rating - http://www.millernurseries.com/ One Green World (Northwoods Nursery) - multiple types of fruit trees and plants - OK/fair G.WD. rating - http://www.onegreenworld.com/ TyTy Nursery - extremely poor reviews Willis Orchard Company - multiple types of fruit and nut trees and plants - fair G.WD. rating - http://www.willisorchards.com/
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What's your zone? And I'll give you a list of what works
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andrewjohnson
14 years ago
van well nursery, look no further
riredwolf
Original Author
14 years ago
Yes ..I did find it kind of steep. After carfefull onsideration I will most like seek out a local nursery in my area, and buy there, that way if I run into problems with the trees, I can always ask them directly for advise. I have particular problem buy seeds online or through catalogs, but trees..that a whole different matter..thank you all for your opinions.
thisisme
14 years ago
I really hate to say anything bad about a company I have never purchased from but here is what I think you should know.

They are not listed on the Daves Garden Watchdog. My bet is because like TyTy they asked to be removed do to their being so many complaints.

There is a website that lists complaints for this company and here it is.

Here is a link that might be useful: Complaints Board
brandon7 TN_zone7
14 years ago
They are also on Garden Watchdog. They go by multiple names including Brighter Blooms Nursery, Empress Tree Nurseries, fast-growing-trees.com, and Paulownia Supply. They've been discussed in the Tree Forum, and have a fairly poor reputation there.

Here is a link that might be useful: Empress Tree Nurseries / fast-growing-trees.com / Paulownia Supply
brandon7 TN_zone7
14 years ago
See the link below for a list of most mail-order fruit-centric nurseries, along with a brief summary of what they offer, Garden Watchdog ratings, and their web address.

Here is a link that might be useful: Fruit Plant Suppliers
thisisme
14 years ago
Sorry you are right brandon7 somehow I missed them. Their rep is pretty good on GW too. Their rep is horrible on the other site though so it may be best to read and consider both before deciding whether or not to make a purchase.
alan haigh
14 years ago
I don't see why it might not be advantageous to purchase 3 year old trees if the nursery was reputable. I wish the nurseries I ordered from like ACN offered 2 year trees which are popular in Europe because they speed harvest by about a year. For dwarfs, anything more than 2 years would not only be a waste of money in my opinion but a disadvantage over a well managed 2 year tree and be likely to runt out because of its advanced maturity during the stress of transplant (unless you removed all spur-wood).

Wolf, if you decide to plant bare-roots stay far away from Miller Nursery unless you want tiny whips and possibly mis-labled trees. Cummins is good for unusual stuff but you may get larger trees from a larger commercial supplier like ACN or C+0 which I believe will fill small orders (ACN will, at least)- not sure about Van Well which was mentioned and is another reputable commercial supplier. I am reluctant to steer you from Cummins- great people, great know-how, great selection (until they start to sell out).

When ordering BR's the only reason distance is important in my experience (which is substantial) is the cost of shipping. BR's are so tough that I often park a box in the shade for a couple weeks before planting them with no ill affect. I supposed a truck could get stuck in extreme cold weather and damage trees from a Westcoast nursery if trees were already budded out.

Forget about getting stuff from garden centers, unless it's privately owned by a fruit-nut. You can't trust what they say about rootstocks or scions.

Order ASAP. The best nurseries tend to sell out- I put in my order months ago.
myk1
14 years ago
This is the first time I've ever read to stay away from Miller. I'm kind of shocked because of the ones on here that recommend them.

I generally recommend going as local as possible. It has little to do with shipping time although that is a consideration because you don't want them to dry out. It has to do with the climate the trees were originally grown in and built for. With Stark being about 3 hours away from me I bet the trees hardly notice they've been moved. Also they are very well in touch with what my weather is as far as when to ship. Not that I expect they look out the window to decide when to ship to me personally but weather that effects their shipping schedule is actually applicable to me unlike someone who is in a zone 5 1000 miles away.

I don't think a truck traveling across country would be an issue since nearly everything flies the long distances to hubs.
alan haigh
14 years ago
Mykl, I have ordered trees by the hundreds from all over the country. We are talking about clones (both root and scion) whose seasonal clocks have been absolutely shut down by long periods of refrigeration. Only someone like Miller would lay claim to be selling tougher trees because they are grown in a harsher climate. In fact many of their trees are apparently purchased from other nurseries.

There has been absolutely no noticable difference I've observed from my C+O trees from the west coast, the Hilltop trees from the midwest and the ACN trees from PA and RI (this is just 3 of the dozen or so nurseries I regularly purchase from). Except that the C+O trees tend to arrive already budding- which hasn't hurt their establishment and actually seems to get them off to a faster start.

Commercial nurserymen I deal with have made jokes about Miller calling them to buy runts for a dollar a piece to sell to their unfortunate customers. This subject has come up numerous times on this forum and Scott usually provides research that indicates Miller's low rating based on on-line feed back. I think Miller's blueberries and other smaller stuff like brambles are perfectly good, however.
myk1
14 years ago
That's good to know about Miller. Before coming here I always figured them to be part of the Gardens Alive and/or Foster and Gallager complexes (I missed out on Stark being part of F&G) so I steered clear of them.
Before I decided on Grandpas for next year's order I was going to order from them.

Notice that 2 of the 3 you list are in your general area. I'm betting deep down you do the exact same thing I do except you have more of a need to go out of your area than I do.
I don't say it's necessarily bad to go far away, I just think it's better to go closer when you can get the same thing.

I definitely do not like trees waking up before planting. No reason, I just don't. So you pretty much fed my fire.

I don't remember why Adams got crossed off my list pretty quickly. Maybe I glossed over them using Albemarle Pippin instead of Newtown for the name. I'll have to look back into them.
I do remember I crossed another that you don't list off, they fudged the zones colder than others so what I wanted wouldn't be guaranteed.
The first one mentioned in this thread threw up flags to me when they claimed their trees wouldn't need sprayed so you'd be helping the environment when you bought from them.
alan haigh
14 years ago
Sure, if I can get the same tree at the same price, I always go with the closer source- even if just to reduce co2 release. I just like to tell people that BR's are a lot hardier the common wisdom and I've gotten to the point that I treat them a bit rough- but not if they are beginning to leaf out because then they are pushing new root that can easily dry out.

Sourcing dwarf fruit trees

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