Good for you for trying a fall garden! The whole deal with fall gardens is timing, and it can be veeerrrry tricky. The best thing to do is multiple plantings of each vegetable, in the hopes that at least one planting will mature in time. Fall planted vegetables, especially greens and cole crops have the best flavor though, so it's worth trying to grow what you can each fall.

One major trick is the use of plastic or floating row covers. Just get some bendable material (Lowes and HD sell vinyl pipe for a couple bucks each which bends perfectly for this), and stretch some plastic over it (painters plastic will do, again from a big box store) and clip it to the pipes with clothespins. This will keep frost off the leaves and raise the daytime temps so that things will keep growing until very late in the fall. The difference between protected and unprotected is huge! It's well worth a few bucks in supplies.

-Diggity

Here is a link that might be useful: Garden Imperative

Were the peas southern peas like black-eyed peas? If so, then yes, the cold is why they died ~ normal. Same for the squash. Those are warm-weather things that are killed by frost. The rest of the things you listed will do fine through the winter, especially with a little cover when it gets really cold.

The yellowing though has me concerned. None of mine nor the ones at work (organic nursery with a large demonstration garden) are yellowing. Are you letting them dry out between waterings? Too much water will cause that. Or it may be because you really do need to feed them something (nitrogen gets washed out of the soil fairly easily, so there may not be as much still in there as you think). I use composted manure on mine, and if they look like they need something else I'll give them some liquid fert like fish emulsion (lots of nitrogen that makes beautifully green leaves), and maybe some liquid seaweed with it for the minerals.

"Will these plants make it this late in the season, should I keep trying or just abandon it all except the salad greens? In other words, shouldn't carrot-tops and broccoli shoots be appearing on those plants already? I understand that cauliflower grows slower than broccoli, is that right?" Depends on when you planted them and what their days-to-maturity are. I set out broccoli from big, healthy transplants about a month ago and am just now seeing the beginnings of small heads (days to maturity on those were about 60 days from transplant, so since those were big transplants and the heads will likely be ready in another few weeks, they're right on schedule). Cauliflower ~ no sign of heads yet, but yes, they do take a bit longer (atleast the varieties I planted do). Haven't planted carrots yet, but I think they're fairly quick ~ about 2 1/2 months from seed to harvest ~ so unless you planted those back in the first half of September, you shouldn't be seeing orange shoulders yet (I'm guessing that's what you're meaning by "carrot-tops"?).

"I just now covered the lettuce and carrots with hay tonight. I put hay around all of the plants. Is it okay to completely cover the salad and carrots?" I don't know if I'd use hay to cover actively growing things since you'd have to pull it back after the cold to avoid shading them. Floating row cover is better, set up like Diggity suggested. Here's a picture from the garden at work:
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See the curved pipes in the back bed? Their ends are put over some rebar driven into the ground, then floating row cover (aka remay, spun polyester frost cover, etc.) is put over that and clipped on to keep it from blowing off. In the front bed is another similar setup, only there they used wood and bamboo to hold the row cover up off the veggies and small pieces of 1x4s screwed to the sides to clip to (the little rectangle sticking out of the middle of the front side of that bed).

"Last question is how do I know when hay or compost is free from harmful bacteria? People actually put manure on salad & spinach - really??? " Yes, really. But it's hot composted or aged for over a year. Growers get in trouble when they use fresh manure that's infected with large amounts of ecoli, or similar manure that wasn't brought up to high enough temps when composting. I've used fresh manure before, but here's the difference ~ mine comes from my non-stressed horses and cattle which don't have large amounts of ecoli in their guts, and I don't use a ton of it (just a bit here and there to fill in where I've run out of the aged stuff). Ecoli is everywhere, literally, even in cows' and our digestive systems. But when a cow's stressed, as in a feed lot operation, the pH of her digestive system gets off kilter allowing ecoli to flourish. Compost makers will gather up that manure from the feedlots and compost it, but if they screw up and it doesn't reach high enough temps, there will be plenty of ecoli still in it. I wouldn't dare use that stuff fresh, even on ornamentals.

To avoid getting that kind of composted manure, buy from reputable sellers that make it themselves if you can, or atleast that know where it comes from. I get mine from work where we buy in bulk and bag it for sale. We know where ours comes from ~ an organic, grass-fed dairy with calm, happy cows and people who carefully and repeatedly check temperatures of the compost piles.

For hay ~ Buy from a reputable hay dealer and inspect the rest of the hay in the barn, looking for an inordinate amount of rat droppings in it. Every barn has a few rats, but not every barn has an outright infestation of them to the point that you see droppings in every bale. Avoid those like the plague, pun very much intended.

But overall, have fun in your garden! You're not stretching yourself as a gardener if you're not killing a few plants. You'll learn from it and will get better and better as they years go by.

Just thought of a couple more things you may want to know. Since you're in a colder zone than I am, you very well may want to use that plastic Diggity mentioned instead of the floating row covers ~ plastic will hold in more heat than the covers. But be sure to open up the ends to let the heat out on a hot day. You can cook your plants easily if you don't, or atleast keep them so warm that they bolt (go to seed too early) I'd imagine.

And you're not using coastal bermuda hay or Johnson grass hay, are you? Those two are incredibly invasive and will likely sprout in your garden, even if the hay looks dead and dry, and it's a helluva fight to get them out. I've abandoned a garden plot because of bermuda.

Diggity, I've spent days trying to find row cover without ordering online...I forgot the part where you said "painters plastic will do" and just now read it. I did find the vinyl pipe, I plan on buying some tomorrow and using my *painters plastic* left over from a remodel years ago.

Just in time too, our temps are freezing Friday night.

I don't understand why Home Depot sold the hoops but they don't sell the row cover. Or maybe they did, I just wasn't looking in the home improvement department?

I am learning too that there's a reason I don't want to put new plants in the same row with established plants...I have plants of all sizes in the same row. I assume this will make covering the rows more difficult. Will it matter if the plastic touches the plant? Do I take it off if our temps go back up? Do I take it off during the day?

Thanks for your help!

Thanks Knittlin - the picture helped a lot!

The peas were purple hull. We intentionally started the squash late, trying to get another crop out of the season. I babied the plants and they were doing great. Even after the second frost they had tiny little squash (Crooked Neck & Zucchini). We had some marketmore cucumbers we started late too, they weren't nearly as large as they should have been but I will try late cucs and squash again this year. It was worth it, just to get a few after summer was done :)

What I have in my garden right now was mostly started in August, some in late July, some in September. I kept them outside but I kept them protected. Most were a good size when put in the garden. I first began putting them in the garden about mid September. The problem is, I spaced them all over the place. Where one thing died, I put something else and then repeated until all the summer stuff was gone.

I hope I don't have invasive hay, it came from home depot or lowes, somewhere like that. It's been stored from the past few halloweens. We usually have parties and the kids sit on bales of it, that's why we had it in the first place.

'Kwow anything about what's purchased at the local hardware stores? I'm thinking, this is a good thing to know, I just thought hay was hay! Thanks so much! My neighbor grows rye grass in our yard, he uses it for pasture - is the wind blowing into my garden a bad thing??? Thanks for all the help, I just keep thinking of questions as I reply :)

Knittlin, I forgot to tell you that you are probably right about too much water on my cabbage. We have gotten way too much rain lately. Most of my first two plantings of salad greens and spinach were washed away. I do have a lot of salad I started in containers and forgot about. I never did thin it. Should I, after its 4/5 in tall? Some of it died, after it turned yellow but I assumed it was a drainage issue.

"But when a cow's stressed, as in a feed lot operation, the pH of her digestive system gets off kilter allowing ecoli to flourish."

I'm trying to learn more about the science side of growing veggies. My neighbor keeps cows not too far from my garden. Should I be concerned? They do graze, but I know he works for big corporations so there's no telling what he may do that's not good for my food...

Have any of you seen the movie "Food, Inc."?

The only way you should be concerned is if large amounts of cow waste starts washing across your land. You'll have bigger issues and much more to be concerned about if that happens, though.

Sorry if I gave the impression that Home Depot will carry floating row cover... they don't. They carry vinyl pipe and plastic, but not row covering. You'll probably have to buy that online. It's well worth having around though. I use it for early spring frost protection, insect protection during the summer, and frost protection again in the fall. It has become my organic gardening secret weapon! At this time of the year some of the garden supply companies (Gurneys and Henry Fields) are offering a deal where you get $25 off an order of $50 or more. It's a great time to stock up on row covering!

-Diggity

Here is a link that might be useful: Garden Imperative blog

Glad the picture helped! Sometimes they really are worth a thousand words, huh? ;) Yep, purple hulls are southern peas ~ toast during a frost/freeze.

"We intentionally started the squash late, trying to get another crop out of the season. I babied the plants and they were doing great. Even after the second frost they had tiny little squash (Crooked Neck & Zucchini)." Replanting for a fall garden is a great idea, but I've always hated how they die by frost right when they get going good. :*(

"What I have in my garden right now was mostly started in August, some in late July, some in September." Hmmmm... Broccoli set out that early should be producing by now. Are the plants tall and full of leaves? My producing ones are a couple feet tall and loaded with leaves:

If yours aren't, it could be from lack of food. They need a good bit of nitrogen to put on a lot of leaves to be able to support a bloom. Those leaves are what makes food for the entire plant, so you need a good healthy bunch of them to get much harvest. Don't give up on yours yet though ~ try giving them some fish emulsion and topdressing with some composted manure (an inch or so around the bases of the plants out about a foot from the stem ~ don't put it right up to the stems either, but keep it a couple inches away from them).

"I hope I don't have invasive hay, it came from home depot or lowes, somewhere like that. It's been stored from the past few halloweens. We usually have parties and the kids sit on bales of it, that's why we had it in the first place." Then it's most likely straw. Is it mostly hollow stems? That's straw ~ not invasive, though sometimes it still has seeds that sprout (oats, etc.), but are fairly easily pulled if gotten at early. Since yours is years and years old, you'll likely not have many (or any) problems with that.

"My neighbor grows rye grass in our yard, he uses it for pasture - is the wind blowing into my garden a bad thing??? Thanks for all the help, I just keep thinking of questions as I reply :) " Wind blowing the rye into your yard you mean? Nope, not a bad thing really. Free organic matter is good. Seeds will sprout, but are easily weeded with a diamond hoe if you get them early (leave them in the garden after cutting ~ again, free organic matter is yummy!). Regular wind blowing in isn't bad either unless it's strong, cold, dry winds for a while ~ if you notice it's burning your plants you may want to put up a bit of a wind break.

And you're welcome! If you have more questions, fire away. :)

" My neighbor keeps cows not too far from my garden. Should I be concerned? They do graze..." If there's enough grass out there for them to graze, then that's not a feedlot operation like I was talking about and you shouldn't have anything to worry about (mine graze right up to the fence, six or eight feet from my garden). It'd only be a danger if your neighbor had a real feedlot ~ like Nc-crn said, if a bunch of waste was washed into your garden ~ but the authorities don't take things like that lightly. So no worries.

I haven't seen that movie yet, but I'd like to. I saw King Korn (or the first half of it) and that was a good one ~ a couple college guys go to Iowa to grow their own acre of corn the "big agri-biz" way and "much hilarity ensues" (and a lot of good, serious information is given as well).

"I don't understand why Home Depot sold the hoops but they don't sell the row cover. Or maybe they did, I just wasn't looking in the home improvement department?" Home Depot here doesn't sell row cover either. You may find it in the gardening section in spring, or more likely at a local nursery (call them all as some may not carry it). You may find a better price online (GOOD deals you found, Diggity!), but be sure to get the heavier frost cover. Floating row cover comes in different thicknesses. I have two ~ the thick stuff that keeps things 5 or 6 degrees warmer and the thin stuff that I'd be lucky to get a degree out of (it's for keeping bugs out, like Diggity mentioned ~ GREAT for thwarting those *^$%@ squash vine borers).

"I have plants of all sizes in the same row. I assume this will make covering the rows more difficult." Not really. Even if you didn't fill in the holes with smaller plants, you'd still have to cover those older and taller ones.

"Will it matter if the plastic touches the plant?" Yes. Any leaves that touch the plastic will get frozen and die. The way the plastic works is it keeps the air trapped underneath it warm by trapping the heat from the ground. The plastic itself is still plenty cold, about as cold as outside temps.

"Do I take it off if our temps go back up? Do I take it off during the day? " Yes. Atleast vent it by pulling up one side or both ends. To see just how quickly things heat up, put a thermometer in there with your plants and, before venting, keep an eye on it throughout the day (of course vent if it warms up too much ~ say, over 80 degrees). Great learning experience, that one. It's amazing how quickly things heat up in there on a warm day.

I can't thank you guys enough for your help. I have two quick questions. I'm using painters plastic. How far off the ground should my *tents* be?

I'm doing this with my 10 yr old, my husband had to work today. I didn't think the bendable piping would be easy to work with and remembered we have a ton of PVC pipe that I had forgotten about. So my plan is to drill holes in the PVC to run twine through the tops. I'm not sure how deep in the ground (we have a lot of clay) to put the PVC and not really sure how tall to make my tents.

I realize this may be a little over-the top but I started every one of these by seed and I just can't let them get frostbitten.

Thanks again for all the help, I'll take pictures. I think most of what I started in July was the cabbage, I left them in the rain and the first seeds of broccoli and cauliflower were drowned. So most of the broccoli and cauliflower was started in late August and early September. But yes I do need some nutrients in the soil because according to the seed packages, they should be further along.

Okay, so it was quite a chore, but (almost) everything is covered in either plastic or straw (not hay :) ).

Thankfully my Mom and her friend came to help me. The gadget my husband gave me to cut the PVC wouldn't work. We couldn't find any small PVC so all we had was big pieces that we could not cut. I ended up searching through old junk for anything I could use, and found some pieces that would work (tip: dry rotted vinyl corner pieces don't work, lol. And I'm guessing toxic?). I know, its a lot of trouble to save food I can buy at the store, but I started these from seed, so its hard to let go. :(

Pictures of my handi-dandy anti-frost tents are at the bottom:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gardensofbugtussell/

Some of the plastic was lightweight painters plastic and one piece was a very large bag, heavy plastic. The painters plastic is blowing in the wind so it is definitely touching the leaves. The thicker plastic is touching a couple of plants too. Oh well, it was the best I could do with short time and little money. Next year I will know what to buy.

Next year, of course I will start my seeds much sooner. I do need to fertilize too. I'll buy something Monday if it looks like they will make it. Thanks for the ideas.

Oh yes, I wanted to mention what we plan to do next year. I found some wood trim strips that were meant to be used for trim on cabinets. It was perfectly flexible. I only used it for one of the rows (two pictures are included). I plan to buy better plastic and use small pieces of PVC in the ground and use those trim strips to make hoops, then put the ends inside the PVC.

Here is a link that might be useful: Fall Garden 2009

The bent pipes at work are about 2 1/2 feet at their apex, but just tall enough to hold the plastic off your plants is fine. Half inch pvc is the easiest to bend and slip over the rebar (provided the rebar is the right size, too ~ can't remember what size ~ 1/4"? 3/8"?). If one or two leaves touch the plastic it's no biggie ~ just those will get damaged, but the plant will put more on later.

Your tents look fine except for the ends. You're going to close those up, right? They need to be or the heat will escape.

Is this one of your broccoli from now?
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Link to pic in case it doesn't show up.

If so, your broccoli looks great! There's a head in there. In the very center is the beginning of the bloom (head). They aren't that far behind, if at all, girl! :) In light of that, I'd not use the fish emulsion (or high nitrogen fertilizer) and just use the composted cow manure (more balanced ~ has nitrogen, phosphorous and potassium ~ for leaves, blooms and roots respectively). If you can find a liquid fertilizer that's got all three, great. Hasta Grow is really good. Anything with a bit of nitrogen and a lot of phosphorous (for the blooms).

"I realize this may be a little over-the top but I started every one of these by seed and I just can't let them get frostbitten." Oh, I know how you feel. Besides, you're learning ~ next year will be lots better and easier.

Yep, that was one I believe was started by seed on Aug 20th (I didn't plant seeds in July, I was wrong about that). The seedlings became leggy and I managed to salvage a couple, but it should be further along. I didn't fertilize though, so obviously that mattered (live and learn). I had no idea it had that little shoot on it, it wasn't there when I last looked. That was one reason I just assumed my garden was over - doomed! My Mom bought plants and we are already eating her broccoli and cabbage, the cauliflower will be ready soon too. But now I'm really excited about my garden again! I noticed yesterday that even underneath the straw, my lettuce and spinach were still growing. I'm sure you noticed I have weeds too, that just happened during several days of rain, I should have dealt with it but couldn't find the time. Now that I realize its not so bad, I will make the time. I will also get the organic compost - thanks! I found a place to buy it but they are closed on Sun & Mon so I will place an online order today to save me from having to spend time searching.

Anyway, thanks so much for your help, it's really changed my attitude. I'm so glad I covered everything, it all looks great today. We'll make sure the ends are covered tonight and then I'll take the plastic off for a few days since the temps are above freezing...or should I leave the plastic tents (after the lows go back to the 40's)?

Also, I have some container lettuce that I've been moving around. I notice its getting sun under a shelter. I am thinking that if I hand-water it, I should just leave it under the shelter? When it rains hard and I'm not here, it has drowned a few times already, but some made it so now I'm suddenly interested in eating it, lol!