Fruitgirl is right of course. The PNW has berry varieties that creep rather than stand. Triple Crown, Doyle, Chester, Black Satin etc. will stand up for a while before they really need support. But I think it is good to remember that semi-erect does not mean they can be grown properly without support. They will curve over, flop over, or fall over, and it's not the best way to grow these varieties. They also get better light and air movement when they are on a trellis, and are a lot easier to pick. Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

Hi Everyone! Thanks again for everyones input, my comments below Oregonwoodsmoke Thanks for the suggestion in terms of using a cross line between wires, Excellent suggestion! It is simple enough but at the same time, I would have never thought of that. In terms of mowing down the fall berries, that is my plan as well. I plan to remove the clothes line from my turnbuckles and mow away. As for the clothes line, Im actually using a more heavy duty version of the green vinyl coated line. This line is stiff but not quite as stiff as many of the wire coils you mention. Glen Thanks for the suggestion on the deer spray. I hate to put money into the garden in lieu of a more permanent solution but this might be the best option. How long does the Deer Out last? We usually get hard thunderstorms throughout the summer so do you have to continually reapply? As a side note, I was talking with my "mystical friend" and she said that I have to release my fear of the deer! She claims that my continual worry is what is attracting them to my beds. She might be right (laughing)!! Ive been paranoid of the deer every since I put in my main garden (1000 sq ft) five years ago. I think your advice on waiting to see how the plants grow is good. Ill watch their growth patterns this year and make adjustments as I go along. athenainwi Thanks for your advice. I didnt think about keeping the varieties separate, that is a great "note to self." In terms of keeping different varieties separate in each bed, does everyone have any recommendations given that fact that I already have multiple varieties in each bed? For example, if either Heritage or Anne crowds out the other, should I just prune the shoots of either variety to keep them in check??? Ive also noticed that Heritage is starting to move in on my Jewel plant in Bed 2. backyardener Yes, that is the exact same line that I purchased from Lowes. It seems to be pretty sturdy for the most part. socalliegal You might try doing a Google search on each species to get their growth habits. Im new to this too and Ive had to do a TON of homework to get this all figured out. I am surprised that more vendors dont offer information on growth habits or trellising when they sell their plants. You might also post this as a separate topic on GardenWeb. You will probably get more replies that way. For what its worth, here are my suggestions Canby This looks like a fall bearing raspberry so you will probably want to mow the plants down after they fruit. You could go with a simple "T" trellis design with your crossbar at 3 feet. This should keep them contained. But you dont necessarily need to use a trellis for these berries due to their growth habit. If you grow these in a hedgerow, Ive heard that for good light penetration and growth you should keep the hedgerow at a width of (12-15"). So the only pruning that will be done on these is on the suckers (new plant shoots) that grow outside this width. Someone please correct me if Im wrong. Black Satin I believe these are considered "semi erect." So they will grow upright for a while and then the canes will flop over. When the flop onto the ground, the canes will tip root (mine did) and multiply. So you will need a trellis to keep them off the ground and additional support as the plant gets larger. You can prune the tips of the canes at (3-4 ft) (depending on the height of your trellis lines) and then attach the canes to your line. The plant will start to produce lateral branches once cut which you can train to your lines as well. I will see if I can find the page I used for my trellis designs and then send it to you. In the meantime, you can check out the following page for info: http://extension.oregonstate.edu/catalog/html/ec/ec1303/ They have a good page on raspberries as well. Thanks again everyone!!! Terry

I won't attempt to answer all of your questions. These types of fruit are collectively refered to as brambles. Brambles are much easier to grow in the ground than in pots, and are much more productive that way. If they are growing in the ground it should be relatively easy to take some to transplant, or propagate them when it comes time to move. Especially so if you have a time-table for the move. Blackberries and raspberries have two basic types. Primocane (sometimes called fall or everbearing) and floricane types. Primocane types grow the fruit on canes the same year that those canes emerge from the ground. If allowed to overwinter, they can bear a second, smaller crop the next year. Floricane types don't fruit until the year after they emerge from the ground (they have to experience one winter before they fruit). Nearly all blackberries and black raspberries (certainly all thornless ones) are floricane varieties. Rasberries are common in both types, although I don't know which types the thornless ones come in. Raspberry "thorns" are generally more of a fuzz and are not dangerous. Blackberries and black raspberries can be vicious blood-drawers. Raspberries and blackberries have a very different taste and character. Everyone has their preference. How would you answer a question "Does apple taste better than pear?" The blackberries seem to have much greater variation in flavor amongst varieties than do raspberries. I grow 4 varieties of primocane red raspberry, 1 variety of black raspberry, and 5 varieties of blackberries (all thornless). It would be hard for me to pick one type if I had to. If I had to lose one it would probably be the black raspberries because of the thorns. If I had to pick one for you, from what you described, I would probably go with blackberries planted in the ground. They will be the most productive, are easier to keep from spreading, and can be thornless. Understand that you won't get any fruit the year you plant them and probably not much the following year either. The reason fresh berries are so expensive is because they are perishable, fragile, and labor-intensive to pick. That makes them great candidates for growing at home.

This was my second year with my TC plants growing in their new digs, like yours, in containers. I don't know what kind of plants you started with, but two of mine were rooted tips from the original plant I bought and that plant originally had only one short and narrow (less than a pencil) cane. Each plant sent up at least one thick cane during the first real growing season (I think the original mother plant maybe had two). From those three plants I harvested a gallon-sized plastic bag (freezer). Like you, I thought that was pretty good (and about the same as my boysenberries also in containers). Going into Fall I have cut off all but the four strongest new canes on each plant. Considering the vigor of both kinds of berries I think that 4 canes is about as much as you can ask from containers. Those canes have been tipped at about 5 feet and I'll let any laterals that develop grow until the dormant season and then cut them back to about a foot. My berries grow in tall cages (rectangular prisms), with one cane tied to each vertical edge. I feed weekly during the growing season with a liquid hydroponic mixture that I copied from some university site describing greenhouse production of containerized raspberries.