Thank you all: The most extreme (by far) chlorosis I'm seeing is on the 9th leaf Freedom tree, the rest are 3rd - 4th leaf now. I'm such a dope for not getting pic.s of the chlorosis symptoms but here is what I (REMEMBER) seeing - the cluster leaves never show any, it begins following fruit set on the new shoots (only I think) and continues on the new growth up until about mid Summer then ceases on the new growth as it peters out, it starts up again around harvest time and remains until leaf fall. I realize this may have some scratching their heads, my observations and recollections have been sub par and may therefore not make much sense. The leaves on a shoot appear destined to remain chlorotic once they have formed and never recover. I'll do a very good job this year of observation and documentation if it kills me, this is embarrassing. Fruitnut: aint our soils just dandy! My math, for what it's worth. 2.8% = 0.028, an a.f.s. of soil = 2,000,000 lbs. therefore 0.028 x 2M = 56k lb. of lime in the a.f.s.. I was aiming for a foot deep so we'll go 56k x 2 = 112k lb., 112k / 2 = appx. 56 tons/A, one ft. deep. I haven't nailed down my S amt. yet to neutralize the lime but am re-thinking the 1 ft. depth to just 6 - 7" for the first year of additions. I've seen the same comments about hoplessness but some are colored by the economic costs associated with adding large amounts of S. I take your point about pH variability in different locations. I did look at a number of pics. and descriptions of apple Fe and Zn deficiency in leaves last year and couldn't separate the 2 looking at my tree(s) it was frustrating and I figured it wouldn't be all that hard to figure out, I was wrong! Well aware of chelated iron and may go that route, my first inclination has been to correct the soil pH and lime issues in that they can cause other problems as well. CSU (and others) recommend a green tip Zn SO4 spray for Zn deficiency, I may give that a whirl this Spring on one side of the tree and leave the rest alone, or do the whole darned tree. H-man: after further reflection over the past few days I agree that I'd best not go for altering the entire soil profile down to a foot this year, probably calculate and amend for the top 6" this Spring then sample 0 - 6" and 6 - 12" next late Fall to see what happened and go from there. If I recall, the wood chips and leaves release a fair amount of Ca when they break down too. I've gone back and forth over the foliar feeding but haven't tried it so far except a very small trial on the pear tree with Fe EDTA, it burned the leaf margins and the rate and drying conditions were correct. After that experience it soured me some. The N source for me is just a matter of getting the most pH lowering for my buck while adding the N, in retrospect, ammonium sulfate has the highest CaCO3 neutralizing effect of all the N ferts., DUH. I don't expect the miniscule amount of amm. sulfate added to my soil to get the N I need this year to pack much of a punch to the pH but it's a step in the right direction, S will have to do the real heavy lifting on neutralizing all that lime. My target pH is 6.5, no plans to go below that, no real reason to that I can think of, point taken. Man I'm starving, thanks again all. there was probably more to write but the stomach has my full attention now.

Farmerwife, As I read back through your posts, I get the impression your Dad is worried about insect problems from the unmanaged trees, which is why he wants them removed. You mentioned his reason for removing them was not aesthetics. If this is the case, I think he's made this a bigger issue in his mind than it really is. Sure there will be more insects affecting the apples vs. if they were sprayed, but I don't think there would be more insects in an unsprayed apple orchard vs. an unsprayed pasture. If you could at all talk him into it, I simply don't see any downside in just leaving the trees as they be, as an unmanaged orchard. In fact, there could be plenty of upside benefits in leaving the trees. Potential increases sales value of the home and property. Potential part-time or full-time business opportunity for another family member, or potential buyer. Most people would recognize a quick turnaround to renovating an abandoned dwarf apple orchard, vs. planting one from scratch. As much as I am reluctant to mention it, your father is nearing the end of his life (statistically speaking). The property will likely soon pass on to other family members. I believe it will be more valuable as it is, instead of bulldozing the trees. He may be quite surprised how well some of the trees do without any care. Below is a link Milehigh posted on another thread. It is a video of another pretty much abandoned orchard. There are still plenty of edible apples on the abandoned trees. Perhaps your Dad could be inspired to keep his trees from watching this man's story. If you can't talk him into keeping his trees, at least go as slow as possible in helping him destroy his orchard. Give him the maximum amount of time to change his mind. Here is a link that might be useful: PBS video of Nick Botner (86 yrs. old) and his apple orchard

100 trees is a good starting point, but I have not seen any discussion about rootstocks, cultural practice or the budget designed to hit your goals.. Each of these points merit careful consideration. The current "state of the art" in apple production seems to be some form of tall spindle with trees 3 or 4 feet apart in rows 12 or 13 feet apart. With a tree density of over 800 trees per acre, plan on spending around $15K per acre for this type of orchard not including the fence! Trees cost around $10 each and you have place the order at least one year or perhaps two years ahead to get what you want. Some nursery will custom bud any variety you choose it they do not have it in their catalog. The most useful information I have seen is in YouTube or other video from Umass or Cornell. Also, T Robinson (Cornell) has produced a lot of research explaining and advocating tall spindle systems. Last year I saw a new 100 acre planting of dwarf trees in Virginia which must have cost over a million dollars It was a very impressive site. The smart money in the orchard business from all over the country seems to be on board with tall spindle system Don't forget the berries and brambles. They fit perfect with your plan and cost a lot less to get started than tree fruit

Thomis, I'd forgotten you had an earlier post about losing the trees to collar rot. Crown/collar rots are definitely associated with wet heavy soils. Peach trees will die even faster than apple trees under those conditions. I would definitely plant the peaches in mounds for better drainage and to stop the travel of the zoospores, which can't move through mounded soil. In terms of varietal recommendations, I have my own biases, but I'd check out the recent thread - "2010 Peach Report" where you get others favorites as well. Don Yellman, who I haven't heard from in a while, is fairly close to you has recommended Golden Jubilee as one of his favorites. I've seen it listed before as a canner, and it drops fruit, but Don's mentioned several times it's his favorite. Except for maybe Spring frosts, I'd expect you could grow just about any Midwest or Southeast derived peach you wanted in your climate, and perhaps some of the CA peaches Scott mentions too.