Olpea you are very close on the ppm thing. Army core and envrios were setting up a dredge job in FL. The spec called for not more than a 29 ppm diff up stream and down stream of the dredge. After we got up off the floor from LOL we took the core on a drift down the water way. Before the dredge was on site the samples were more than 100 ppm in the mile channel. The answer from the core was we don't want to SEE more than 29 ppm. harvestman April 17th 1971 I was in the clean march in Hartford Conn. Now I have changed my mind a little. I have 2 kids, they are married to 2 people who are from 1 child homes, I have 3 grand kids (1 is still tube fed at 6 yo). All the family histories show us living into our 90's. We are not poor but we take care of our own, No nursing homes. I just can't think of my 2 smart grand kids taking care of 6 grand parents. At thanksgiving we joke about how we have to build a house while we still can with cages in the cellar we can get food pushed under the door , and a warm hose bath on the weekend. Don't go nuts on this it has been a joke in our family for 80 years. When you spanked me when I was 6 I will wait till you are 90 for pay backs.

Thanks Frank for posting this. I've been in a discussion with another forum member about this very topic. I'd read Thiamethoxam (I use the brand name Actara) is supposed to be as effective as Imidan (phosmet) and Guthion (Azi-meth) on PC but couldn't produce any substantive research to back up the claims made. The problem I have with Actara is that it's only approved for 2 applications which isn't enough to get me through the whole PC season. But now that I know it has such effective curative action, in the future I'll wait and start applying it after I see evidence of infection. Very helpful, actually waiting to see infection before treating. Most other insects, if you see damage it's too late. I see Acetamiprid (Assail) provides good control albeit, not quite as good as Thiamethoxam at 75% vs. 90% reduction in emergence.

I've been pretty busy lately and just catching up on some forum reading. There was a pretty interesting Webinar a couple months ago regarding new CCD research involving several universities. The Webinar was 30 min. long. The jist of it was: 1. There still isn't a consensus among on what is causing CCD. 2. Mostly it is thought to be a combination of factors with plain old Varroa mites being the main contributor. Cell phone signals are no longer thought to be of any significance regarding CCD. 3. The new research focused on Neonics. This idea is not new, as parts of Europe banned some seed treatments of neonics and did not see a subsequent reduction in CCD. CCD also occurs in areas where no row crops are grown within foraging distance of the bees. The part that is new is the study of the lethality index of some of the neonics used in seed treatments in conjunction with how the product is used and the lethal and sub-lethal effects on bees. Basically seed treatments are something fairly new. They been a boon to farmers as they've drastically reduced damage to crops from not only root feeding pests, but also pests that attack the above ground portion of the plants, thereby reducing the need for field sprayed pesticides. Two seed treatment compounds are basically used - clothianidin and thiamethoxam. Both have fairly long half-lives and are systemic products. Clothianidin is more lethal of the two, but clothianidin is one of the break-down components of thiamehtoxam. The problem is that because clothianidin does such a good job at protecting the plants, it's also around when the plant blooms. It's very very toxic to bees when they ingest the pollen. Another problem is the planters need to be cleaned of dust after use. Planters have built in blowers to accomplish this. Unfortunately with treated seed, the dust is mostly pesticide. It's a fairly concentrated mass that's blown out and can have high concentrations of the compound where it settles. Currently seed planter cleaning does not fall under EPA pesticide application guidelines. I look for this to change soon in the future. 4. The other part of the research focused on residential use of imidacloprid. Apparently this neonic is used heavily by homeowners and landscape professionals to protect ornamental shrubs and trees. It poses the same problem to bees as seed treatments. Blooming plants grown in ground treated with imidacloprid can (and probably will) have pollen toxic to bees. The issue is the sheer number of acres treated with these compounds. The land planted to seed treated row crops combined with the residential use of imidacloprid covers a sizable portion of bee habitat. Fruit growing (both hobby and professional) cover a much much smaller area and thereby have a much smaller potential impact. Clothianidin is approved for fruits and perhaps should be required to be re-registered to make sure it does not pose undue risk to bees when used on fruits. It is used after bloom. Because of this new research, I will probably never use Clutch (clothianidin) on my trees. Imidacloprid is approved for fruits but is ineffective against major tree fruit pests and is probably used very little except by homeowners. Thiamethoxam (Actara) is used for tree fruits and is very effective against plum curc and brown mamorated stink bug. It is used after bloom though, and limited to 2 applications per season. Not all neonics have the same effect on bees, but it's likely some people will lump them together. Other neonics used on fruit, acetamiprid (Assail) ect., have not been implicated. Acetamiprid is much less toxic to bees than clothianidin and is not used before bloom. Insecticides vary greatly on their insecticidal effect of, not only insect pests, but also non-target insects. There are broad spectrum insecticides like pyrethroids and organophosphates, but there are also more species specific insecticides like diamides that target lepidopterous moths. Intrepid (diacylhydrazine class) is so safe to honeybees, it is approved for use at bloom, yet is very lethal to lepidoptera. It appears that insecticides may play a role in CCD, but not all insecticides, and not even all neonicotinoids are at fault. Commercial beekeepers also use insecticides on their hives. Although I'm sure there are exceptions, most experienced beekeepers will tell you the days of keeping bees without treating the hives are over. Varroa mites have seen to that.

All fungicides, pesticides,herbicides, growth regulators need respect in their use but we need to realize which are the bad ones, and which are the serious to our environment that need to be banned - many of those are the neonicotinoids. We are using them like they aren’t an issue because we don’t spray them in the air. some short term products are fine in this regard, these nicotine like products are not. Much of Europe has banned wide use, the USA seems oblivious. Many of the plants you buy and decide to raise organically in your pollinator gardens are already contaminated and may stay so for months and years. Let’s talk about a real killer of bees that is in so many products out there. You probably have at least one of the main 7 of this group - in your garden shed right now. But it isn’t just honey bees. Bumble bees can be more sensitive than honey bees to many pesticides. And song birds, other pollinators and hummingbirds are most likely being affected. Plus keep in mind that honey bees range long distances in a day...so local bee keepers whose honey you may buy most likely is contaminated with these neonicotinoid. Testing has already confirmed that many sources of honey are affected in some manner. You will have to research where this testing was done and what the results are. In addition, the bees dying and having reproductive issues affect the quantity and maybe the quality of the honey if they aren’t able to produce as normal...this makes honey cost more and ends up in us. We did have a ban on these types of pesticides in all federal lands so they could clear out or remain untainted if not yet affected. However, President Trump has lifted the ban and the government and people with federal land leases are able to use these again. There are 7 main neonicotinoid insecticides - look at any products you have or are thinking of buying to see if you see these names. Write them down and carry in your wallet. Be precise and don’t decide just because another product sounds or looks like one of these - they are the same. Acetamiprid. Clothianidin. Dinotefuran. Imidacloprid. Nitenpyram. Thiacloprid. Thiamethoxam. Neonicotinoids are classified by the EPA as both toxicity class II and class III agents and are labeled with the signal word “Warning” or “Caution.” Because the neonicotinoids block a specific neuron pathway that is more abundant in insects than warm-blooded animals, these insecticides are more selectively toxic to insects than mammals. Of the neonicotinoids, imidacloprid is the most toxic to birds and fish. Both imidacloprid and thiamethoxam are highly toxic to honeybees. The most available toxicity data of the neonicotinoids is with imidacloprid. They are all neurotoxins. At least read the first link. It is very detailed but I feel it is worth your time. Download the full pdf report and read during breaks in your time. From Xerces Society - https://xerces.org/neonicotinoids-and-bees/ PBS https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/neonicotinoid-pesticides-slowly-killing-bees Audubon Society https://www.audubon.org/magazine/spring-2017/the-same-pesticides-linked-bee-declines-might Below is a link that gives most of the insecticides and fungicides and their bee toxicity. The tables you will want to look at is further down the article.- this is done by Michigan State University called Minimizing Pesticide Risk to Bees in Fruit Crop. https://www.canr.msu.edu/uploads/resources/pdfs/Minimizing_Pesticide_Risk_to_Bees_in_Fruit_Crops_(E3245).pdf