Amazing statement, that the system is near free. Here is what I see at my site: 1) house has a footprint of about 1300 sqft, but two of the six gutters are devoted to ostrich fern, a high water perennial. So is half the detached garage (to hardy kiwi), which has no gutters anyway. I have 1000 sqft to conserve into 2200 sqft of garden. None of this water runs off, it all percolates into the ground and supports trees and the water table. 2) Need to replace gutter covers, because they stop leaves, but let in elm seeds. It is also a Cape Cod, with nooks and crannies in the roof where stuff congregates, decays and washes off. Things are much better now, since the ash trees died (also purveyors of small seeds), and I cut five spruce. No way to filter all that junk while tons of water are washing into the barrels. That will be quite a penny. Just to give you an idea, where my driveway empties into the lawn, I have to shovel elm seeds with a snow shovel in season. 3) The facility (18 barrels) weighs a lot more than the garage, probably half the house. It needs its own concrete foundation, and good retainment. I am guessing it needs 150 ft of 4X4 and 300 ft of 2X4, plus bolts, etc. I cannot build it near the house or the city will get me. In the back of the garage, I need a nice 5 inches pipe (at least, it has to collect all the rain of 1000 ft during a rainstorm) running 60 ft through the lawn, at a slope of 1 inch per foot, with some nice posts in the middle of the lawn which I will bless every time I have to mow. The barrels may be free (I never found them, and I have two, each of which I paid $10), but I still have to take delivery, or make nine car trips (plus all the trips for the wood). That is no money? My barrels come from 27 miles out. 4) The braising of the plastic barrels. I have no tools, and no one I know has them. They cost, and probably a couple of barrels will be lost. Now, to get into the 21 beds, I need 1500 ft of PVC, and probably 100 connectors and 100 elbows. If the system is to be done right, the end caps must be removable at the end of the season to flush the lines. I need valves in many places, because in August the tomatoes need zero water, and the celery, 2 inches a week. 5) we are left with the simple matter of drilling holes. Perhaps as few as 2000 (but in beds with carrots or lettuce, you need many more), but because they are drilled, their overall area exceeds the area of the PVC, unlike, say, in drip irrigation. That means the system loses pressure quickly, and the far beds get a lot less water. And all this to save water that is insufficient, irregular in its supply, and ecologically clean but technically dirty. It has the appeal of being in liquid form, but there is a lot more of it being lost to evaporation (and mulch really is free). It is water I would never put in my drip system, and a drip system, also, is something that truly saves water, and can be put in in a couple of days of work, and it saves water whether it rains or not.

Sorry to hear about your fungus Anna - hate the stuff! Hoping I can pull through with my second batch of seeds. If not, sounds like we'll both be off to the nursery for transplants. I'm not opposed to them, just wanted to grow my own. So amazing to watch and heartbreaking when they get sick. Susannah, glad I could help. I sent a message over this morning. I'm honored to speak with you! I'm also very curious about your book. I immediately thought of Marjory Kinnan Rawlings and Zora Neale Hurston when I saw the year and subject of your upcoming book. Love literature about that period. I can enjoyably get lost for hours in the WPA FWP archives. Hoping we get some broccoli responses.. Love broccoli, but lots of spraying in the commercial fields. So growing here for the longest period possible is highly desirable in my home. My Mom talks to the brocolli seedlings everyday. Of course telling them how she's going to eat them all up may not be the words they wish to hear lol. Thanks for posting Carolb. I look forward to pics and the answers to the questions Tom has asked. Knowing those answers will definitely help in a successful outdoor start. Thank you so much everyone! I feel that I can honestly say I am not the only person you are helping with your knowledge and experiences. I lurked for months trying to learn before making the leap and starting to post.

Legacy77a, It is hard to say, but not necessarily. It would depend on how greenish they were.....sometimes when harvested green they do sprout and sometimes they don't. The more the green has faded to a whitish-green or a tannish-green, the better, though. If you want to test their germination, let them sit for a week to ten days which is sort of a dormant period for them. Then, wet a paper towel or coffee filter, lay a row of 10 seeds on it, wrap them up in the paper towel, put it in a plastic zip-lock bag and put it in a cool, dry location. Check every day to see if the seeds sprout, and how many sprout. After a couple of weeks, all of them that are going to sprout will have sprouted. From that, you can estimate if your germination rate is going to be 10% or 50% or 90% or whatever. And, you'll know if your seeds are viable or not. Patty, That's all I do. When I clean up the garden debris, I just leave the flower heads that I want to self-sow. I don't generally tear the flower heads apart and scatter the seed around, although you can if you want to. Sometimes, too many seedlings do come up in one small area and you can either transplant the extras while still vey small, or just pull them up and discard them. Generally, though, wind and rain will scatter the seeds around on their own. If you pile the chopped leaves onto the beds only a couple of inches thick as mulch, the odds are that the seeds still will sprout in the spring. If you put the leaves much thicker, though, they might prevent or slow down germination of reseeding annuals like zinnias. If you want to play it safe, save some seed to plant next spring in case your plants don't self-sow. That way, you're covered either way. I suppose this is an extreme form of winter sowing, minus the containers. I do it all the time. I even gather wildflower seed from one pasture and sow it in another just by scattering handfuls of it around the pasture after the first hard freeze. That seed will lie dormant and at least some of it will sprout in the spring. When plants self-sow naturally, whether in a cultivated garden, in a pasture, in a woodland, etc., those seeds also have to deal with plant debris and, generally, the debris doesn't hurt the seeds or keep them from germinating. All kinds of annuals and half-hardy perennials self-sow in my garden with little or no help from me, including zinnias, four o'clocks, poppies, larkspur, evening primrose, angel's trumpet, swamp hibiscus, morning glories, moonvine, hummingbird sage, black-eyed susan vine, cypress vine, cardinal climber vine, ornamental peppers, some tomatoes, some herbs (including catnip, catmint, some basils, parsley, cilantro, etc.), clasping coneflower, hollyhocks, french hollyhocks (malva), kiss-me-over-the-garden gate, and verbena bonariensis. Often, pumpkins, winter squash and gourds self-seed as well. In my garden today, I already have verbena bonariensis, malva 'Zebrina', angel's trumpets, tomato plants and hummingbird sage that have sprouted in the last month or so from seed that ripened and self-sowed in late summer. Of these plants, the tomato plants will not survive and come back next year, but the others usually do if their roots get large enough before it gets really cold here. The reason some people have better success with winter-sowing than with self-sowing seed in their gardens is often that their gardens have too much wind or too much rain and their self-sown seed blows away or rots before it can germinate in late winter to late-spring, depending on the type of plant it is. In my garden, I let "the usual suspects" self-sow as they choose, and I winter sow other plants in containers if I know from experience that they have not self-sown successfully in my garden in the past. Hope this info helps. Dawn

Well it looks like this it the finally list: TODAY'S UPDATE and FINAL LIST OF MEMBERS: 01. ncgardengirl-Fran***** 02. medontdo-Michele 03. markcase1964-Mark***** 04. lgslgs-Lynda 05. misskimmie-Kim 06. conniesc-Connie***** 07. heatherbon-Heather 08. dirtdiggin-Toni***** 09. gardeningbingo 10. grolikecrazy-Chris***** 11. douglasls-Lisa 12. beverlysc-Bev 13. aphroditelaughs-Ellie 14. sissifriss-Myriah***** 15. chellflower-Chell***** 16. mary_grether-Mary 17. poisondartfrog-Alana***** 18. grovespirit-Iris 19. lindaruzicka-Linda***** 20. angelady-Angela***** 21. dimples31312-Dorothy 22. strmywthr3-Barbi 23. smokymist-Cheryl***** 24. jas_il-Jasmine 25. kristlindgren-Kris 26. ishareflowers-Lisa***** 27. purpleacres-Tracy***** 28. countrygirl_sc-Gail 29. fleethart-Fleety 30. hmacdona-Heather***** 31. echinaceamaniac-Clint 32. lakedallasmary-Mary 33. diana_lynn-Diana Lynn 34. smitties 35. ashle999 36. yotetrapper***** 37. mcbdz-Pattie 38. graanieb-Bea 39. sassybutterfly_2008-Wendy***** 40. threeshyacres-Jodi***** 41. blue_ivy-Tola 42. ibartoo-Linda 43. jaleeisa-Kathy***** 44. molanic-Molanic 45. rane_grow-Iris 46.gardenmom2-Nichol 47. southerncharm1-Kathy SC1 48. kilngod-Tina***** 49. luvgardening2-Nancy***** 50. rbrady-Rhonda***** 51. dessieb-Dessie I will be emailing out my address shortly IF you do not have an email from me PLEASE make sure you email me for my address. Thanks so much I am sure we all are going to enjoy this swap. :) Fran