I get a lot from your posts zeedman.

I have never planted a hybrid, I don't think. But many open pollinated varieties are just as bad when we are talking about weak plants. I started right off the bat ordering seeds from seeds of change, baker creek and southern exposure seed exchange.

I am new to gardening so I knew nothing of what varieties to select. I bought a little of everything if I liked the description. I paid little attention to where the variety was from.

It was a mere accident when I had a variety succeed. Last year was about the worst drought in history, with record high temps, even for Texas. Most days over 100. One whole month that reached 110 and only 1/2 to 1 inch of rain a month. Normal is 3" a month. So, the fact I got anything with not knowing how to garden, and not knowing what to plant was miraculous. My husband claims it is the attention I pay to my plants. I check on them one to two times a day.


What succeeded last year was

Texas longhorn cowpeas from SSE yearbook
rice bean cowpea from baker creek
yellow pole wax bean from see yearbook
green arrow peas - SSE catalog
anna swartz squash - from a trade
melonette squash - baker creek
daikon radish - bountiful gardens
French breakfast radish - bountiful gardens


marginal success last year

California black eyed pea
purple hull cowpeas peas
golden bush wax bean - trade
suttons harbengers pea - SEE catalog
buttercup squash - baker creek
golden bantam corn - baker creek
country gentleman corn - seed savers catalog
white hailstone radish - baker creek
early scarlet globe radish - baker creek
bartender red radish - baker creek
Szechuan red radish - baker creek
Detroit red beet - trade
cylindra beets - baker creek
American purple top rutabaga - baker creek
Paris island lettuce - trade
red valentine lettuce - southern exposure seed exchange


marginal success this year

golden bush wax bean - trade
pencil pod wax bean - trade
Cherokee Wax bean - trade
roc d or wax bean - trade
Alaska pea
wando pea
little marvel pea


what failed totally last year was

British wonder pea - SSE catalog
baby blue hubbard - trade
golden beets - trade
Egyptian beet - trade
celeriac - SSE yearbook
long standing spinach - baker creek


Too early to tell for this year's crops


I have learned though is a relativity short time in Texas, than unless you plan to dump heaps of water on the plants all the time, I had better do a bit of research before acquiring seeds.

There was a rhyme or reason on what did well here. It was my job to figure it out.

COWPEAS

Texas longhorn is probably some sort of local variety with a name like that. It is very viney. It has maroon seeds with maroon hulls. I picked peas to eat every other day, for 1 month. Even froze some.

Rice beans are pretty close to wild I would think. The seeds shoot out everywhere when ripe. It has small buff seeds It is also very viney. I picked peas to eat every other day, for 1 month. Even froze some.

California black eyed peas are very short plants, with buff seeds and highly bred.

Purple hulls are a bushy type plant with runners. They have purple hulls, and green seeds with pink eyes in green stage.

Viney late maturing cowpeas do better here. They have longer roots that hunt for water. I have also found that if a variety is early like California black eye is, it does horrible here. California produced very few peas, needed tons of water and did not fill out well. Purple hull was planted late in the year so got the fall rains. It got a ton of cowpea aphids. I am trying them again this year.

Bushy early maturing white seeded cowpeas are all recessive traits, so they aren't happy here. The weaklings!

WAX BEANS

Yellow pole did great last fall. With a generic name like yellow pole wax bean I am willing to bet, it is not a commercial variety.

All the bush beans did horrible this spring. The plants looked sick and did not produce much. The yellow poles did not produce many beans, but the vines where sure healthy.

All bush beans are highly bread. Bushiness is a recessive trait.

PEAS

Peas did bad in the fall and the spring. But my first year by mere accident, I planted them in Mid October. The seeds arrived late, so decided to plant as a cover crop and hope for the best. They did not produce in the fall, but made it through winter and produced for 1 whole month (April) in the spring. I will have to say it was a mild winter that year. If planted in Feb, they make a few peas the beginning of May and then say it too hot, I am dying now. My fall peas froze before producing a single pea.

I am not bothering with spring or fall peas anymore, but will do winter peas. I am not sure but I would think taller varieties with deeper roots would survive wither better. I will be planting tall telephone and dwarf grey sugar this fall. Next year I hope to find a purple speckled sweet pea. They are said to be winter hardy.

Of the peas that I planted in winter, green arrow did the best. Sutton did OK, and British wonder died in hot dry fall. Green arrow is a vary old English variety. The other two are also British.

I think English peas where developed from soup peas. English peas are usually wrinkled. Wrinkled peas are a recessive trait. The English also like to make their peas very short so they could grow them in their cold frames. Shortness is a recessive trait too. There are two strikes. This makes them harder to grow in harsher climates.

WINTER SQUASH

Basically late maturing winter squash with long vines and large leaves do best here. It also helps if they are not from North Dakota.

Anna Swartz Hubbard - long vines, and large leaves. Did not mature until cooler weather set in. I think this one is from new england, so there you go.

Baby Blue Hubbard - small bush plant - Squash borer took its life. It is from New Hampshire

Buttercup - Small thin weak vines. Heaped soil on vines saved it's live. Sickly looking plant. It managed to produce fruit. From North Dakota.

Melonette - long vines, large leaves. One healthy looking plant. Did not mature until cold weather though. From France. That explains it.

Sweet dumpling - Short weak, thin vines. Produced many fruits. They were not very sweet. Sweet dumpling from the store were sweeter. Not sure where they are from

Delicata - Short weak, thin vines, produced many fruit. Very sweet. Not sure where they are from.

CORN

Country Gentleman - Connecticut
Golden Bantam - New York

Well there is 1 strike right there. They are from way up north. They are both highly bred sweet corns. Sweet corns are recessive. So that is strike two (sweet corn) and three (highly bred). Short plants and early to mature. Strikes 4 and 5. I would think dent corn would do better here, but it might taste like cow corn. I hate that stuff.

My corn was planted in April. It looked great, but by the time it was to make corn, it was over 95 and dry. I got about 6 poorly formed wormy ears out of 48 plants.

I tried the three sisters garden thing. I did what they said, but the corn was too close together. Groups of 4 6 inches apart in hills. They fell a lot.

Next time that I plant corn, it will be a landrace, or south western, tall variety of sweet or dent corn that claims it can be eaten in the sweet stage. I will select a tall plant with late maturity. I will plant them so they can mature in the fall when the summer weather will not bother pollination. That will be a while though. I was very upset about the poor performance of the corn. I have to wait to get brave enough to try again. It might be fun to try corn to make hominy. I have only eaten canned hominy. I bet it is great fresh.

RADISH

Planted in october, due to late arriving seeds my first year

daikon - Japan
French breakfast - France I would suppose

I got many radishes that even went to seed! I think they did well since they were winter radishes.

white hailstone radish
early scarlet globe radish
bartender red radish
Szechuan red radish

are all spring radishes

They did horrible in spring, and horrible fall, and horrible in winter. They either did not want to sprout, or did not get very big.

I believe, could be wrong though, that spring radishes were developed from winter radishes. They are small round, early maturing and can't take winter. No cool weather crops do well in spring here. It is too cold then it is hot, no spring really.

CELERIAC

First off, these are not for the beginner. I am a beginner. I direct seeded them, none came up. They need lots of moisture and 110 days of 60-70 degree weather. Ain't happening here.

SPINACH

None came up. Did not sprout in fall, spring or winter.

Long standing a spring variety. I will try a winter variety next time I brave spinach.

BEETS

Did not do well spring, fall or winter. Poor sprouting and tiny roots that taste like dirt. I believe a winter variety would do better here. If that won't work, it is our clay soil. Beets are from the coast, hence they like sand.

Golden and Egyptian beet spouted very well, since I planted them in October. They all froze before they had a chance to mature though.

I believe (I could be wrong) small spring type beets were all developed from large winter beets, so they are weaker and can't take frost.

RUTABAGA

Did not do well, spring, fall or winter. Did manage to get a few though. Most tiny. I did get one that I waited to pull just before warm weather set in. It was very sweet. The fall onces were a little spicy.. These guys need frost I guess. I can't seem to find histories or origins of any of the rutabaga. All say white root purple top and that is about it. SSE yearbook varieties seem sketchy on details too.

It is Texas, so I can't expect the roots to be too happy here.

LETTUCE

Sprouted very well, looked fine, tasted bitter. Fall planted ones froze. Will try a winter variety next time.
Both varieties that I tried are resent commercial varieties.


I made the mistake of looking for heat tolerant in the greens and roots. I am going a different way now. I am looking for the words hardy or frost tolerant, so they can me planted in mid September to mature mostly before frost and complete their maturity throughout winter. Hopefully I won't have to cover them. We get no snow to protect them, so I guess I should cover them.

If I can't do well winter winter beets, rutabaga, radish, carrots, spinach, or lettuce. I am giving them up. Too frustrating.

I like beans the best anyway. I like beets, but can be easily bought in the store, and taste better than mine. I hate radishes. I just plant them as a cover crop and cause I think the flowers are pretty. I love rutabaga, and they are not easily found in the store in the organic form. They are very frost tolerant, so I have hope for these. I have not tried carrots yet. But I have some Amarillo carrots to try.

Orange carrots were developed in Holland from mixing yellow and red ones. I thought a native color or yellow or purple might perform better here.


As far as experimenting in a small garden, I am doing that.

I planted four poles each of 8 types of cowpeas this year.

I had 7 types of squash last year and 5 types this year.

I am doing an experiment with winter squash next year. I like buttercup squash the best. The texture is great and it is so sweet. But I found the health food squash sweeter than my buttercup. I think they are not really buttercup. They are not even shaped the same. I think they are Hokkaido squash.

I will be planting anything I can get my hands on that says it looks or tastes like a buttercup so far I have in my notes to try

Argentina pumpkin - Argentina I would think
Hokkaido - japan
Crown prince - Australia
Maina di Chioggia - Italy
Jardale - Australia

These are all from warmer climate so I am hoping they will do better.

I will share my results here on garden web. I am sure I am not the only one that has trouble with buttercup squash.

I will also plant Pumpkin Jap because someone said it was their favorite. It is not part of the experiment. It is a moschata. I hope it does not taste like a butternut. I hate those. Do all moschata taste like butternuts?

I will plant hopi lima next year, that I received from zeedman. I am so excited about these.

My Dixie specked butterpeas that I have in the garden this year seem to hate Texas. They are bush plants, so that explains it.

The year after that, I will plant the rest of my lima seeds, to see what I like. I can't save seeds form those since limas cross so easy. When I purchased all the lima seeds, I had no clue they had to be separated, or I would not have bought them all.

I just received a seed list from seed dreams. Their list looks great. Absolutely no descriptions though. Many landraces. Maybe if I call to ask for descriptions they could tell me on the phone.

This year, I mostly planted seeds that I had left from last year and stuff from trades. So many northern things that wilt in the sun are in my garden this year. But no more northern seed nonsense after this year. Too frustrating and not necessary. I am giving the rest of those seeds away to a Massachusetts community garden. I still need to find homes for my medium weather seeds. Too wimpy for here, and need too much sun for Massachusetts.

zeedman:

I am impressed with you being able to grown limas and soybeans up there. I guess if you try hard enough almost anything is possible. I am learning the hard way that, failures are really the only chance to learn. We learn very little from our successes. I do fell beets may just not be in the cards for here. I have already hate success for radish, so I know it is possible. I feel with the right variety and right planting time of rutabaga, I think I can get those to work. I am not sure about carrots. They are supposed to like sandy soil. I am pretty sure spinach is a long shot. I will try them again one day though. I think corn could work if I happen on the right variety and planting date.

Happily I can get even poorly suited squash and cowpeas to produce here. They are my favorite things to eat, so aren't I lucky.

I am not really into greens, but could try them for the family. If they are kaley or taste like mustard green, I am sure they won't fly. If sweet like lettuce, or spinach then maybe.

I read that 70 day tomatoes are they best we can do here, and those 1 pounders are pretty much out.

I have planted tomatoes from plants for two years. Very little success so far. Of the ones I planted tis year, bloody butcher s=did the best. It produced small tomates for 1 month. I would like to get a least a medium tomato to work here. I have tried the big ones. I get 2 nice looking ones per plant or not at all before 95 degrees puts an end to more. I am not alone in my tomato woes. I hate tomatoes. I plant them for hubby. It was his only request. I would like to fulfill it. My daughter asked for onions, lettuce and spinach. Gee whiz, why can't they like cowpeas!

so, as far as keepers I have

Texas longhorn cowpeas
yellow pole wax beans

I hope to add to that list at least 1 variety a year

I did not like rice beans, even though they love it here.
I am looking for a red long radish for a friend which is why I am not planting French breakfast or daikon again.
I may try green arrow pea again one day.

And as you say there is always lots to learn, from as far as cultural practices, such as planting winter varieties in the fall, and not bothering with spring crops.

There are other factors for poor performance by a plant than simply being out of it's comfort zone. IOW, there can be failures even by plants that are in a region to which they are well-adapted. It seems you have only had one year in your current location, so it's a little soon to be tossing varieties and classes of plants out of consideration.

Firstly, the fact that your soil is probably not what it could be in terms of enrichment and amendment, and correllatively, the insect and microbe populations are probably not high and well-rounded yet. Then there is the fact that weather varies in any given place from year to year, sometimes hugely, in which case it becomes one of the major factors. For example, some years I can grow great winter squash un-irrigated, most years I can get at least something, but some years - like this one - it's so dry that the squash produce nothing. Zip. That doesn't necessarily mean I used the "wrong" varieties of squash nor that winter squash is a badly-adapted plant for this area. What it does mean is that if I were gardening for survival, I had best always have a small fall-back crop of squash in a place where I can guarantee irrigation, so that at the very least I'd have a continuance of seed. In actual practice, that is what I do.

But again, some generalities can be made about broad regions. "English" peas are for the most part not worth bothering with in the south, as cowpeas aren't in the north. Sweet potatoes, peanuts, okra, large limas, and many other classic southern crops aren't reliable in the north. So anyone really relying on their garden produce is mostly wasting effort in giving those crops garden space. Irish potatoes can't be stored succsessfully in zones much warmer than z7 without artificial means, so for the survival gardener they would be a waste of time and space (unless a person had the time and inclination to practice TPS culture).

Thusly is the reason that the old-time pioneer and homestead gardens had relitively few crop varieties and also ones that are rarely seen today. There was not time to be wasted on not totally reliable crops. Sure, you might get a great crop of limas in massachusetts, but more likely you'll waste that space and time and water when you could have produced something with it. Within their proper zones plants like walking onions, potato onions and bermuda onions are unbeatable. But they don't fit our modern sensibility of what an onion is, so they are rarely seen now. Some very reliable crops are almost completely gone from our horizon, like parsnip. Others have become mere decoration for the most part, like winter-squash and flour-corn.

Anyway, here is my list of super plants for my region. Not one is "native".

Walking onion
squash
parsnip
red russian kale
leaf-mustard
radish
lettuce
english peas
beans
irish potatoes
chard
storage beet
amaranth
rye and wheat

Survival would be largely assured with these crops, with some being more reliable and less labor-intensive than others. All can produce in an average year without irrigation, which is the absolute critical factor IMO.

You raise some good points.

I think I have not been gardening long enough to know what varieties will do best here. Especially since both years I have gardened the weather has been far from normal. But, I have noticed that the varieties that are bred for the north, or in the north, need a ton of water and wilt in the heat. Also the bush beans, bush cowpeas and bush squash die or suffer greatly over 90 degrees.

When I listed varieties, I was not trying to suggest varieties, but to explain trends that I have noticed, like if the variety originated up north or was a bush plant verses viney, it was a bad performer here. All the notes I take, helped me to learn what traits to look for in a plant for better chance of success here. Maybe I should not have listed varieties, but I was trying to demonstrate how I came to the conclusions that I have. Maybe I am wrong though.

When I said local varieties, I did not mean local to your area, but varieties grown by local folks, of their area, verse commercially bred kinds that are intended for market growers.

As far as I know, not much is local to Texas. If I was limited to that, I might be eating only pecans and grass.

I do like the idea of planting multiplier onions.

I do agree that my garden is not mature yet. I have noticed that my no till garden has better soil now that when I started in 2005. It seems to have more beneficials that I noticed last year.

I am not one to be able to give gardening advice, since I am a new gardener. I have tons to learn. I just wanted to share what I have noticed and as you say I could be completely way off base. Highly bred commercially varieties meant for market growers could be our future and the way to go. I don't have a whole lot of experience to know for sure. But if you could just see these buttercup squash wilt in the heat (they are irrigated) you would see why I do not want to grow them anymore. They were bred in North Dakota.

Maybe, I should not share my observations for another 10 years. I would hate to lead a gardener astray.

Being that you are from Mass, it is a ton easier to buy veggies suited to your area. Veggies catalogs cater to the north and leave us out in the cold. I have now found catalogs for southern varieties. There only a few, the rest of the catalogs have address of Maine, Iowa, Washington, Oregon, Illinois, Mass, Vermont,and lots of other northern places. Even Virginia is north compared to here. If the stuff in those catalogs does well up there, it would surely be a challenge to grow them down here in the oven. I now avoid those catalogs with a ten foot hoe. Especially catalogs like burpee, park and jonny's seeds.

Ruth,

When it comes to corn, I don't know of a sweet variety which has STURDY stalks. I grew Stowell's Evergreen about 22 years ago, and want to say it was sturdier than most sweet corn. But... I can't really recall. There are some wonderful southern varieties of corn, which grow very well in many parts of Texas. In Hidalgo, Mexico, I often purchased seed for a large seeded flour corn, which would probably do well in Texas. Most of these regionally adapted corns seem to have really tightly wrapped husks and sturdy stalks. I'd do research on them, if I were you.

My family gave up on sweet corn, years ago, as where we lived, in Mexico, we couldn't find one which would grow more than 18" tall and produce measly ears. Now, we enjoy good roasting ears, simply using a good "field" variety at the milk stage. This is what vast majority of Mexicans do, back in Mexico. We took our cue from them.

Now we grow Mesquakie Indian Corn (Sandhill Preservation. It is trouble free here in Oklahoma, has very sturdy stalks and produces very well. It's an old variety, from the Mesquakie (Fox) tribe, when they were up in IA. Glenn Drowns got it from a woman whose family had kept it since getting seed from the Indians, when they settled there. He suspects it now carries a few extra genes, which it picked up over the years.
Mesquakie Indian Corn below:
{{gwi:101588}}

>>Next time that I plant corn, it will be a landrace, or south >>western, tall variety of sweet or dent corn that claims it >>can be eaten in the sweet stage. I will select a tall plant >>with late maturity.

PNBrown's point: "Thusly is the reason that the old-time pioneer and homestead gardens had relitively few crop varieties and also ones that are rarely seen today. There was not time to be wasted on not totally reliable crops." Hits home with me, especially since I do most of my weeding and cultivating by hand. Here in our area Bermuda grass invades the garden at an incredible rate. I'm gravitating more towards that old time approach to gardening he mentioned. Corn, cowpeas, sweet potatoes, okra, ... the list does get a bit long, are able to defend themselves in this climate and are satisfying on account of their production. The corn/cowpea combination not only produces, it successfully overcomes Bermuda! Next year, I'll probably put 50% of my garden in with this combination, as we also USE what it produces and often wish for more.

Corn/Cowpea combo: A winner for a hot climate!
{{gwi:101589}}

Like your corn pictures, thanks for posting them.

Do you hill up your corn? I would not think a strong corn would need that.

I think is it wise to grow what grows best and not waste land on what does not grow well.

Most new gardeners will try for a while anyway to grow those things from back home till they wise up and adapt to local growing conditions and grow what the locals grow.

With peas I am not wasting land. It does nothing winter anyway, might as well plant something. I might switch to garbanzos though, or soup peas.

not been gardening long enough to know what varieties will do best here

Mary - Perhaps I misunderstand your post but I am curious as to why you seem to be attributing so much lack of success in Texas and/or southern gardening to the variety? There are other factors that have a much greater impact. The gardener's cultural practices being the greatest.

Most any "variety" of a plant can thrive given the proper site selection, soil preparation, soil amendments, mulching (beautiful mulching there macmex!!), irrigation and fertilization plans, etc. Yet even landraces and so-called "local varieties" won't thrive without proper cultural practices whether those be from Mother Nature in the wild or the gardener in civilization.

And the many successful Texas, Louisiana, Georgia, Mississippi, Arizona, and yes, even Arkansas ;) gardeners are "proof of the pudding" so to speak. Many successfully grow sweet corn, butterpeas, lettuce, buttercup squash, celery, beets, etc. - all the poor performer crops you listed above. And it truly makes little difference where the seed was "bred" or that the seed supplier is based in the north (Park Seed is South Carolina).

A successful gardener first needs to learn about the weather and growing conditions in their part of the country. That takes time and experience. And then they need to adjust their cultural practices (not their varieties) to those conditions. They cannot insist on following old patterns of planting times or soil prep, if they have rocky or clay soil they need to use raised beds, if they have excessive water demands from their plants then they need much heavier mulching or a changed location or a drip irrigation system. They may need a windbreak or shade screen, a different fertilizer, different pest controls, etc.

But I don't think one should ever feel they are restricted to only native plants from a local supplier unless that is what they want to grow. And never rule out any crop or any variety of that crop simply because it performs poorly for you. The lesson that failure is teaching us is that we need to examine our cultural practices and adjust them, not the variety. It is harder to do but much more productive in the end. ;)

I wish you luck in your gardening adventures.

Dave

Interesting thread - I was just out spraying tomatoes for early blight and noticed that the open pollinated 'heirloom' varieties were worst affected - Supersonic, my favorite hybrid, was doing well. But tomatoes aren't exactly native up here.
My garden has whittled down to the stuff that I can grow easily since I'm too old to waste energy on uphill fights:
sugar snaps, tomatoes, zucchini, beans, beets, kale, swiss chard, basil, cucumbers, garlic, elephant garlic, parsley, perennial bunching onions and Egyptian walking onions.
I'm also reminded of what happened many, many years ago when I was renting down the road and told my landlord that I wanted a spot for veggies. His reply: this land won't grow veggies. And when I said I'd try anyway, he said well, his boys would come Memorial Day weekend and plow. That's far too late to start a garden in this area so I got out the trusty spading fork and dug. It was soggy clay so I trenched all around the area for drainage (i was a lot younger!) added compost and planted. Landlord amazed by radishes, peas, squash, corn, tomatoes, etc, etc.It was about the same time that I gave a ride to a hitchhiking member of a local commune (which tells you how far back that was) and he informed me that they had given up on their vegetable garden because 'you can't grow vegetables in this climate.' I didn't bother mentioning that I was growing enough veggies for two families while fielding a full time job. A lot has to be attributed to know how and even then I had some 20 years of growing experience behind me.
The other bit of info I've tucked away is that you haven't given any plant a fair chance until you've killed it three times. Which means three years of gardening before you call it quits on a plant.

I think that's fair enough - give it three years. If common sense tells you there is a good chance. Cowpeas aren't going to mature in the northeast kingdom of Vermont, so I don't think I'd give them one year there.

Dave, I agree the gardener him or her self is a major factor. But what I like is plants that WILL thrive most very season even without best practice from the gardener. I've found those on my list thrive in spite of the gardener (me!). The main factors become rainfall and summer average temps.

My experience in general is that plant selection is very critical, more important than the gardener is to success.

You are right Dave, I successfully grow just about every kind of vegetable (many have seen my pictures, I have many), from all across the country, some from other continents. I am glad that I found that out by experience before I read all this junk, I might have been afraid to try.

Texas is huge and is one of the most diverse states in the Union, ranging from swamps, coast, mountains, desert, forests and prairies. Plants and animals that thrive here are just about as diverse, ranging from gators, to bears, cougars, bobcat, whitetail and mule deer, a few elk, bison, wild hogs, many types of reptiles, horses and cattle. Plants that thrive and produce here are even more diverse.
Bill P.

First, you have missed the point entirely. You guys are off on some other weird tangent completely.

Second, after ready your posts criticizing me, I went out in the garden and cried.

from zeedman

"Mary, if my experience is any judge, you are on the right track. Land races are the true heirlooms, varieties that have stood the test of time for their soil & climate. Sometimes the best solution to a climate, pest, or disease problem is not to fight against Nature, but to find the best variety. Square peg, round hole, and all that... too often we find ourselves pounding the wrong peg to make it fit."

It's usually always best to get your plant/seed from locally grown providers if you can. It's not a "support the community" thing (well it can be) as much as plants that are used to growing in your area will thrive with either much less care or provide higher yields.

A tomato grown for seed in California can be grown pretty much anywhere, but if you live in upper New York you're probably better off going with a local seed source.

A plant's primal genetics can give it an edge. Just like keeping a clean garden floor and clean pruning tools can give you an edge. You may not find the holy grail of tomatoes/beans/etc. out of localized seed, but you got something who's lineage is acclimated to your local climate.

It's no sure thing, but it can be everything from a solution to an edge up.

Whoa there - what criticism? This is a discussion on gardening philosophies and posting differing opinions is part of the process. It is in no way "personal". That is all any of us are doing - posting our opinion on the issue in question. Surely you don't expect everyone to agree? ;)

This is a discussion on whether or not one can get a more productive garden by using land races and local varieties, correct? You (and zeedman whom you keep quoting) apparently feel that you can. I, and apparently others, disagree.

"I think the highly bred, commercially developed varieties are weak and more susceptible to bugs and drought. "

I disagree with that premise. Based on my experience and the posted experience of others here, many of the highly bred, commercially developed varieties are, in fact, much more resistant to bugs and disease.

You then took it a step further by labeling certain crops and varieties as a waste of time and space in your gardening area of Texas because (1) they didn't do well for you in your limited experience with them, and (2) because they are supposedly from New Hampshire or Vermont and so can't tolerate the Texas weather.

All I suggested was that perhaps the problems lie not with the crop or the variety or the seed because (1) others grow them successfully in that area, and (2) you admittedly have soil, watering problems, and weather that need to be corrected or compensated for, and (3) one or two years experience with a variety when the weather for that year is extra-ordinary is not a fair evaluation of the variety.

So there is no criticism of you personally, merely a disagreement with your basic premise and the yardstick you are using to evaluate your garden.

This is NOT to say that one shouldn't explore growing land races and local varieties if you wish to grow them. However, you are in no way limited to them or to seeds from a Texas supplier if your goal is a productive garden. With good cultural practices (which take time and experience to learn), good garden bed preparation, weather-wise fixtures, and a good watering plan one can grow just about any variety of anything anywhere.

In other words, to paraphrase zeedman, if you wish to plant square pegs and what you have to work with are round holes, then change the shape of the holes and the pegs will grow just fine. ;)

Dave

I also want to say that by 'localized seed' I don't just mean some obscure collection of seeds that folks last grew when lamp oil and candles were in vogue.

Those seeds shouldn't be overlooked, though. There's some good local gems out there. People pay a lot of money for a native-growing "grape" around here called muscadine for no real reason. It's not even a huge planting to have around and is very easily pruned to keep size. $3-$5 a pint for them and I've seen people with 2+ of them in their shopping cart when in season. While its not something most would want to grow from seed, it is obtainable from some nurseries in small "shrubs" that will give you a 1+ year head start (4-5 years from seed). Speaking of growing, most natives and cultivars of natives are mega-resistant to a lot of grape diseases.

Anyway...I really mean, if you have a chance to get some Roma seeds from someone who's been growing those Romas in your area for a while for seed collection, you should. You're gonna get a plant who's either more adapted or on its way to "learning" an adaption to the climate its been growing up in.

And of course, its no sure thing, especially if your local seed/plant supplier can't be trusted, but that's another issue.

"Anyway...I really mean, if you have a chance to get some Roma seeds from someone who's been growing those Romas in your area for a while for seed collection, you should. You're gonna get a plant who's either more adapted or on its way to "learning" an adaption to the climate its been growing up in."

If you're looking Romas in the first place, that is. Should have made that clear.

If you're going to get seed/plant and have a local option vs. an out of area option (unless their stock is from out of area, ask)...the local option will/could give you an edge, especially if you plan on keeping the seed yourself.

Mary, I think you are mis-aprehending the comments. Definitely there is no personal criticism intended by any posters so far. It's also clear that you are an ambitious and fired-up gardener - according to your list you have tried something like 31 different varieties of vegetables between this year and last. That's a lot, I think, for someone who isn't spending full-time. That coupled with severe weather and the fact you are new at gardening is bound to bring some disappointments and perhaps disillusionment. Cut yourself some slack and realize that most of the mishaps aren't a direct result of things done or not done.

I remember when I first started I had this intense feeling that everything depended on me doing all sorts of things and on never making a mistake. I laugh now in retrospect. How absurd and pompous of me! It's just our natural tendency as humans to think that everything hinges on our actions. The truth of it, IME, is that we do have an effect, but at any given time it's rather small. It becomes significant over time - for instance in assidiously making compost and enriching the garden over years. In gradually finding by trial and error the wide range of plants that are very reliable in your garden and getting them well-established and often naturalized. During that process the garden habitat begins to balance itself - in the kinds of weeds that you allow to grow, or not; the insect population perhaps reaches a stable point both in beneficials and in pests. My garden is just starting to get some stability in that regard now in the tenth season.

In general I think gardeners nowadays do more than they need to (or else they get discouraged and stop weeding and watering by early summer!). Think of the countless generations before us who have done nearly miraculous plant-breeding work, leaving us these "landraces" and varieties without which we would truly be singing a sad tune. Gardening and feeding ourselves is ludicrously easy now as a consequence.

I observed nc-crn's point about the adaptation of Roma VF, first hand, back in the '80s, when we lived in Indiana. We gardened there for only 3 years, obtaining our first Romas as started plants from a nursery. They did well. But each year following, they did a lot better.

Ruth, gardening is both a science and an art and no one ever stops learning. Everyone's posts have been respectful and, I believe, supportive. Don't worry about it. This is how we learn,... together.

My comments about sweet corn were based on a couple of factors, which I probably should have better communicated. First of all, I've never heard of a strong stalked sweet corn. My understanding is that weak stalks and sweet corn are somehow linked genetically. Also, once you pick the corn the stalks start to break down. So, if you plan on growing beans on your corn, unless they are not real vigorous climbers, you're better off growing them on a non-sweet variety which will dry down before it begins to break down. Also, the earliest mention of true sweet corn, that I've heard of was from early North American colonial days. It was a mutation which was apparently discovered then, though, I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear that it had cropped up earlier. I've poked around several states and both with agricultural people and small village farmers, over many years, and the only sweet corn we found in Mexico was being served at Kentucky Fried Chicken. I believe that was imported. So, the only sweet corn seed we could obtain was from the USA and it was greatly affected by day length at the 20th parallel. It WOULD NOT grow taller than about 18." So, from my experience, in Mexico, one pretty well had to learn from the locals and learn to grow and enjoy what worked there. The corns Ive seen grown commercially, even, in South Texas, are generally very sturdy and have extremely tight husks. Many corns in Mexico exhibit this same trait, which I believe to be a defense against certain pests.

So, if one wants to do the three sisters style of planting (corn/beans/squash), I see it that one has three options: 1) use sweet corn and no bean more vigorous than a half runner; 2) use sweet corn but help it out with poles, so the beans have something more to support them; or 3) Use a kind of corn similar to what the Native Americans did.

Oh, to answer your question about hilling. Yes, I hill Mesquakie Indian Corn. I did one experimental planting with very tight spacing and little to no hilling. It worked (high yield and only a little lodging). But I prefer the hilling and a bit wider spacing.

Happy gardening everyone!

George

Mary,

As a native Texan and lifelong gardener, I read both this post and your earlier related one with a great deal of sympathy and empathy. Every climate has its gardening challenges, of course, and the grass always does look greener on the other side of the fence....or in another state or region. I do think that it is exceptionally difficult to successfully raise veggies and fruits in Texas, but it is also exceptionally difficult to raise them in many other locations as well.

When I was a child in the 60s and 70s, my parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles, and many neighbors, grew many fruits and veggies not too far from you---in the Fort Worth area. Some grew only the most modern, recently released hybrids. Others grew only older plants (the type we now refer to an heirlooms) from seeds that had been saved/passed down by their families and friends for decades. Was either one more successful than the other? No, not that I can recall. Most years everyone had enough to feed their own families, enough to put up a lot for winter, and enough to give away to other families.

My dad tended to like the more modern hybrids. He improved his soil with compost every year, used herbicides and pesticides as needed, watered as needed (but absolutely did not overwater) and had moderate success most years and terrific success other years. My grandparents improved their soil, but not as much as my dad did. They used saved seed for the most part and were mostly organic as far as I can remember. They had good years with good yields and bad years with lower yields, but always had enough to fill up the freezer and can tons of produce for winter.

I always helped them in their gardens, and have had my own garden as a adult since the early 1980s. I have struggled with many of the same problems you have encountered in your first two years of gardening in Texas. I would like to share with you a little of what I have learned while gardening first in Texas, and now in Oklahoma where I actually have both HOTTER summers than we had in Fort Worth and COLDER winters and springs. (Wow! I clearly wasn't thinking about the gardening climate when we moved here!)

First of all, I have had great success with some hybrids and lousy results from other hybrids. The same is true of my experiences with heirlooms, and I have tried several hundred different heirlooms the last 20 years or so. So, I personally think that it isn't whether a vegetable or fruit variety is a hybrid or an heirloom--rather it is all about how well adapted that variety is to our climate, soil, pests, etc. For what it is worth, I grow both heirlooms and hybrids.....most years my garden is probably 70 to 80% heirlooms and 20 to 30% hybrids.

Secondly, even though many people think we have a long growing season here (both in Oklahoma and Texas), what we really have is a long frost-free season with several shorter growing seasons. I think figuring out exactly when to plant any given crop is the hardest thing for most gardeners in our climate. For example, I plant onions in January of most years and have a great crop. When I am driving down the road and see someone planting onions in mid-April.....well, I know their onion crop is going in too late and they have a lot of frustration ahead of them. Getting plants into the ground as early as possible in the spring is of HUGE importance here, and can make the difference between harvesting a large crop or a small one or no crop at all.

I have found that planting too early often affects yields because certain plants exposed to conditions that are too cold for them just never produce well. Getting plants into the ground too late often results in low yields also. So, more than anything, you have to figure out PRECISELY when to plant each individual veggie in order to get a good harvest. I think that planting something even a week or two too early or too late drastically affects yields. When we moved from Fort Worth, TX, to Marietta, OK, in 1999, I found that I could plant most vegetable varieties at about the same time in Oklahoma that I did in Texas, but not ALL of them. Beans, for example, have to go in the ground a little later here in Oklahoma because our spring nights stay colder a little longer than they did in Fort Worth. It was frustrating, but I learned and adapted and kept on learning what works well here.

Improving the soil is of the utmost importance. In Fort Worth, I had black gumbo clay for which the only solution was to add tons of organic material. Here in Oklahoma I have horrible red clay that dries as hard as concrete, and a little band of sandy soil that drains like a sieve. Again, the solution is to add lots of organic material and to add it regularly, because 'heat eats compost' and you know how much heat we have to endure every year.

I also get the best yields in raised beds that provide excellent drainage, whether I am growing heirlooms or hybrids. I also mulch my raised beds with a HEAVY layer of mulch--four to eight inches--which helps keep the soil cooler and more moist. I do not water excessively and I am careful to avoid overfertilizing.....I prefer to feed the soil and let the soil feed the plants.

I don't use pesticides or herbicides, except as an extremely drastic last resort, and I use organic products if I use anything at all.

We live on rural acreage and I have spent a LOT of time observing native plants here, watching to see when they sprout, bloom, set fruit, etc. I try to learn from what I see in the performance of the native plants here and I think it has made me a better gardener.

I haven't had the best success with vegetable varieties recommended by Texas A&M OR Oklahoma State University, but every now and then one of the hybrids they recommend is a winner for me.

Some years are better than others, and it all hinges on the weather. Last year all of us here in Texas and Oklahoma struggled with the heat, unprecedented drought and wildfires. This year, many of us have struggled with the late freezes, terribly excessive rainfall and flooding, and then the extreme heat/dryness once the floodwaters dried up. I would hope that next year we will have a more normal weather year, but who knows?

I don't think where a seed comes from is what matters. I think what does matter is how well a variety adapts to local conditions. Let me use Black Tail Mountain Watermelon as an example. It was developed as a plant for a climate that has a shorter, colder growing season and, yet, it has proven to be a great producer for me here in a much hotter climate. It never has disease problems here and always produces some of the tastiest watermelons I've ever grown. If I had decided I wouldn't try it because Glen Drowns developed it while living in Idaho, I would have missed out on a terrific variety that is a favorite in our garden.

It is VERY HARD to get the fall garden started in late July or August, but it can be done. I use soaker hoses to keep seedbeds moist but not excessively wet so that seeds can sprout. I sometimes use sheets, plywood leaned against fenceposts, etc. to shade newly emerged seedlings and give them a partial break from the heat. The yields I get from the fall garden make the extra effort well worth it.

Over time, you will discover precisely which varieties perform and produce best for you in your garden with your soil and your weather conditions. You also will discover, though trial and error, exactly when to plant each crop in order to get the best yields. There is a learning curve and keeping good notes pays off.

I often plant 'too early' according to many local gardeners that I know here in southern Oklahoma, BUT I tend to get a better yield than they do.....reinforcing my belief that precise timing of your plantings really does matter. For example, I plant my early corn the minute the soil temps are in the right range. By doing so, I will harvest corn a month to six weeks earlier than folks who plant 2 or 3 weeks later than I do, and I am harvesting ahead of the earworms' arrival. I may sometimes lose my young plants to a late frost, but that's just a chance one takes. If I wait until I am sure there will not be a 'late' frost, I am running the risk that earworms will arrive before my corn is harvested or that an early heat wave will impair pollination.
Being a gardener means being a gambler and taking certain calculated risks. It means being open to trying many, many varieties from many parts of the country....and from around the world. It means learning from trial and error and striving to learn from each negative experience and to build upon that knowledge. Being a gardener means you NEVER stop learning, adapting and trying new things.

I hope you will continue your gardening journey and will eventually amass a nice list of plants that perform well for you. For all its' frustrations, and there are many, gardening is also immensely rewarding. The produce from the garden may feed my family, but the gardening process itself feeds my soul.

Even though I know that... if it isn't raining, and it isn't 110 degrees, and everything is JUST PERFECT in the garden, then the garden is going to be hit by a tornado or baseball-sized hailstones......well, I could never give it up nor could I ever live without my garden!

Gardening is a complex process involving so much more than variety selection....and it is exactly the complex interplay of soil, pests, climate/weather, etc. that makes it both immensely frustrating at times and immensely rewarding at others.

Good luck with finding the varieties that work best for you. Do not become discouraged--they are out there.

Dawn

Dawn, I'm going to save that post! Thanks! That's a wonderful "bunch" of suggestions and observations for someone like me!

George
Tahlequah, OK

Should have added that over the years I've tried a lot of veggies which probably do well in Texas and decided that regardless of where they originated, they were not for the northeast: okra, lima beans, chick peas, fava beans, black eyed peas....
Sweet corn does well up here but I've abandoned that because of raccoons - they always get there first. Potatoes also do well in my garden but they are no longer on my diet. Jerusalem artichokes - field mice got the entire crop. And so it goes!

Thanks for that post too Dawn, very interesting. Not that I ever intend to be gardening in the southwest, but there are useful parallels to central florida. Mary should find it very instructive indeed.

I wanted to mention a variety that might do quite well in y'alls hot dry summers: 'Costata Romanescue' zuccini. Besides being by far the best-tasting one that I have tried, I've noticed in several unusually dry summers - like this one - that the Costata consistently survives and produces in my un-irrigated garden where the winter squashes fail. It's well adapted to drought, clearly.

I don't think that I can add much to this wonderful exchange of thoughts and encouragements, Mary, but here goes . . .

I've been a veggie grower for decades but somewhere along in the middle there, I was paid to be a flower grower. That was after the farming . . . but I digress . . .

Checking on flower seed sources turned up something that surprised me then - - seed sources for catalog companies are often separate corporate structures. As an example, Goldsmith Seeds is based in Gilroy, CA . . . not all that far from my birthplace (but I again digress . . . [as I have since birth] ;o). However, this seed company explains on its website that it employs 4,000 people worldwide!!

Goldsmith's research is carried out in Gilroy and in the Netherlands; seed production is in Kenya and Guatemala!! So you are buying zinnias from Burpee and thinking the seed was grown in Pennsylvania? Think again!

Vegetable seed production is every bit as international. I had to laugh the other day when I discovered that "English" cucumbers are apparently known to English growers as "Dutch" cukes. What particularly set me off was that the source of so many of those wonderful varieties is Japan!!

I actually live just a few miles from that Blacktail Mountain in Idaho to which Dawn refers. My larger veggie garden is in one of the most rocky, exposed and windswept locations within miles. I told some folks the other day that I like Whopper bell peppers. One experienced gardener commented that Whoppers sure are nice when you want really big bells. What really big bells?!? I'm just hoping for "normal-sized" bells. Most any other variety will be really puny!

Now, just to be kind to myself (& we all should . . . [be kind to me] :o), my Peto peppers are pretty good-sized also and my Giant Marconi Italians are really nice and kinda big. They are the Kinda Big Marconi pepper variety.

I'm convinced that certain varieties do better than others in my gardens. Save some seed every year. I've been growing in just about the same soil and location for 40 years. Every year is somewhat different from the others but I make my selections in the dead of Winter. Gotta go with what I know, remember, or misunderestimate.

Steve's digits

Hi Y'all!

I think this is a fascinating thread. I lurk on this thread occasionally but don't post often.....spending most of my time on the Oklahoma Gardening forum. I do so enjoy reading all the different opinions, ideas and experiences everyone shares with one another. I learn something new about gardening every day and hope I never stop learning.

Hi George! I haven't seen you on the Okla. forum lately, but know you are here on this forum a lot. I am glad to see you didn't float away in this summer's floods. :) I always learn so very much from YOUR posts, and I am immensely flattered to think that you might learn something from mine.

Oldroser, I agree that some plants that are very well-adapted in the north do not grow well here in the south and vice versa. My DH grew up in Pennsylvania and I try (mostly unsuccessfully) to grow rhubarb here for him. I also have tried many heirloom tomatoes that grow great in the northern and northeastern states and they are never as productive here nor do they produce really large tomatoes here. Raccoons plague us here too. Last summer a friend of ours decided to trap and relocate the coons that were getting his corn. Three weeks after he first set out the live trap, he had trapped 16 raccoons! They got every bit of his corn too.

PNBrown, I love CR zuke! It is one of the few spring-planted veggies that is still growing and producing like mad. It is probably one of the toughest plants I've ever grown....the drought and bugs don't bother it here, and it will produce until frost wipes it out most years.

Digit, What you say about the origin of seeds is so true! I think many of us don't know a great deal about where the seeds we use come from. I have been trialing watermelons and beans purchased from Seeds of Italy this year....and it seems that many of the seeds I am trying were bred either in the Netherlands or Japan! I think the days of locally-owned firms selling locally-raised seeds are long gone. When I was a child, we purchased our seeds from two Texas-based firms: Porter & Sons, and Willhite Seed. Back then, I believe they actually did produce their own seed there in Texas. Willhite still exists, but I don't know if they raise their own seeds anymore.

Some of the seeds being sold as Porter, Improved Porter or Dark Porter Cherry or whatever do not bear much resemblance to the Porter tomato we grew from seeds from the Porter & Son Seed Co. when I was a child, either. :(

With your shorter growing season, I think it is amazing you can raise bell peppers at all! My favorite large pepper is Super Heavyweight, but it takes it FOREVER for the peppers to get gigantic and turn yellow.

Mary, When I started gardening on my own in Texas when I was 23 or 24 , I thought I knew 'everything' about veggie gardening because I had literally grown up in my family's gardens. All I learned, and quickly, was that gardening is much harder than it looks and I did not, after all, know 'everything'! (Oh the unspeakable arrogance of youth!)

Here I am 25 years later, and even though I feel like a fairly knowledgeable gardener in some ways, I now know that there is so much more I do not know and probably never will know. Still, I keep slogging along.

As our climate changes, and as we have to deal with new and different challenges (including terminator seed technology, GMO crops and the ongoing consolidation of many small seed companies into huge conglomerates), I think we all must remain as adapatable as the plants we try to grow.

If it were easy to produce yummy, fresh, healthy organic veggies in one's backyard garden, everyone would do it! And, clearly, everyone is not doing it.

I wish you good luck in your gardening endeavors. Do not become too discouraged. Gardening in our climate is HARD. Don't let the difficulty of it rob you of all the joy it can bring!

Dawn

Cool thread! Like Mary, I'm new to gardening, and although I have been pretty obsessed with gardening since I built my first raised-bed back in March I've had marginal success. Yet, if if I hadn't read all the posts and FAQs on GW my results would have been much worse. I've paid particular attention to comments made by fellow Texans and Southerners.
I still have to do the work and make the final calls, but I'm informed and have your experiences to consider. I believe I will have a fairly nice Fall garden. With all the suggestions like shading,watering, and mulching, my carrots, mustards,kholrabi, and chard sprouted. I got so much pleasure from seeing those little seeds come up! On the other hand, the brussel sprout seeds and lettuce seeds didn't sprout. I read later that lettuce, in particular, just doesn't sprout in the high 90's. It's still early enough to try again though. My five Traveler(ARK) tom plants were transplanted in mid July and they have taken off!! They have even set some fruit. Of course, by the time I had planted them, I had studied and copied the methods from the experts on the Tomato Forum.
I don't know if what I wrote was really on topic. I just really identify with the joys and sorrows of gardening shared here. When I get really into to trying to control every outcome in the garden and get too overwhelmed, I just have to stop and remind myself to let it go. I'll make mistakes, the weather might be horrid, a new kind of bug that I never have seen will show up. Yet, those tomatoes will slowly grow and finally blush, some of the seeds I plant will miraculously sprout, and most importantly there's always next year and new varieties I'm itching to try.

Pete

Like others on this thread, I grow both heirlooms and hybrids. My tomato patch includes Kellogg's Breakfast, Stupice (a Polish variety which is extra early) and Opalka as well as the hybrids Sungold (gold cherry) and Supersonic, my maincrop 'mater.
This year I'm back to growing Lutz Greenleaf beet - a great,old variety which produces huge, tender, sweet beets. And I tried a new cucumber, Garden Oasis, which is going to be a permanent part of my garden - crispy, sweet, tender with tiny, tiny seeds and very early (planted July 15th after garlic was harvested and picked first on August 15th).
Rabbits ate my favorite pole bean, Fortrex, so I replanted with Romano, an old Italian, flat-podded kind.
Note that these seeds came from all over the world (I think the cuke is Israeli) and they all performed well in my little corner of almost New England. What matters is the genetic info locked into those tiny seeds and not where the seeds are grown.
I'm not at all certain I subscribe to the theory that seed strains adapt to local conditions. And I'm fairly certain that you could grow okra up here in the north by starting plants ndoors but their offspring for many, many generations would never adapt to our cold climate.
But it is true that new gardeners would be well advised to see what their neighbors are growing successfully and take their cue from that.

Yep, this is the best year I've had with CR, and probably the driest summer since I've been gardening.

Oh yes, oldroser, Lutz is THE beet variety for my climate and soil. Third year now, and it's produced consistently, even in the drought. All other beets I've tried have been consistently poor. I've got a couple plants curing seed right now.

Regarding micro-adaptation, I think it definitely will happen but the plant in question has to be able to carry out it's life cycle without much help. Very large numbers of off-spring are needed to encourage the process of natural selection. For instance, I've been experimenting with breeding an over-wintering parsnip. The life-cycle of parsnip inclines that way naturally, otherwise it would be a difficult or impossible task. I get hundreds or thousands of sprouts in the fall, and again in spring from seed that decided to wait. Of the fall-sprouted, about half bolt the following spring. I try to cull all of those out, because that is the trait I don't want. Those that didn't bolt become very huge edible roots - I've had some probably in the fifteen pound range. The spring-sprouted of course become normal sized edible roots. Roots of both kinds that I don't eat go to seed the following spring and form large seed-plants, with the fall-sprouters now being a year-and-half old particularly huge - eight or nine feet tall and five or six feet across. A marvelous draw for pollinators but rather a shade obstacle for other crops! Any way, it's a good example of micro-adaptation when a plant is in it's comfort zone. And of how there is a bit more to ordinary vegetables than one might think.

Its the work of people like you, pnbrown, that make buying/trading/gifting locally grown varieties a good idea...even for plants that aren't native to your area.

Not everything I grow comes from seed. I get my basil (yearly) from a local nursery who cheaply sells 4-packs they have been growing from their own kept seed for decades.

Not that basil is a trouble plant, but the local plant can handle our summers better than some friends' plants who have gotten their basil from "bigbox" stores and/or grown from seed. I see a lot less wilting in the summer and it grows healthy well into Sept/Oct when friends' plants are struggling into Sept.

I grow mostly in "bathtubs". I use plastic sheets not bathtubs. I learned that in GreenHouse in early 1980s and do it more and more outdoors each year.
As the water sinks, it pools in plastic and could drowwn the crop, but I leave x inches above. During 2008, I hope to dig a pit 4 ft wide and 15 feet long and 16 inches deep. Bottom is level. It is lined with 6 mil black plastic. At one spot along one wall I press the plastic down to allow the water to stand 2 to 4 inches deep. Remember the spot so you can dig down to readjust depth of water pool to fit your experience. Refill the "bathtub" with native soil or what you can afford or like.
When I plant in containers I often put a tin can in the botom to trap water. When I plant in 5 gallon buckets or barrels, I drill tbe drain holes in the walls about 3 to 6 inches above the bottom. I have never drowned any plants and they do better than any other method I use. Harold Eddleman, EdelRoots@WMconnect.com
I am a strawberry geneticist and grown them in gallon milk jugs hanging by the handle and a puddle of water in that bottom corner with a hole puched so the puddle is about 2 inches deep. I use cypress bark direct from the bag of mulch.

it sounds to me like the biggest problem a lot of people have is the blistering hot weather that is regular in a lot of America (esp. Texas and Oklahoma, and the worst is the Southwest of course).

Let me remind you all that there is a line of various pepper (capsicum) cultivars developed by the New Mexico State University Agricultural Experimentation Station that were bred to be able to grow and fruit even in the extreme heat of the Southwest. These cultivars are denoted with "NuMex" in the front of the name. They also developed an onion veriety, and I'm hoping they have/will developed tomato varieties similarly.

I did also find a lot of information when I googled "heat-tolerant tomato"

let's also not forget purslane, which I would imagine grows easily even in Texas heat. There's also new zealand spinach and malabar spinach.

worst comes to worst you could always grow jujubes (I know it's a fruit tree and this is the vegetable forum, but it's one of those few things that can handle extreme heat)\

also there's prickly pear cactus - the pads are used as a vegetable.

No doubt there are many heat-tolerant crops.

I think a big challenge for many if not most north-american gardens is the extremes that can be encountered. In the deep southwest at least one can count on summers being long, hot and dry, and build up stock accordingly. Other areas are not so predictable. Witness the unparalelled drought of the southeast ongoing. These days, it seems that most regions bounce between wet summers and dry ones. We have some summers here that are suited for cowpeas, sweet potatoes and okra, and others that are ideal for potatoes and cabbage. Or more likely, it's too cold for tomatoes in June and too hot for them in July.

GW is going to be a big challenge.

Breeding my own Landrace vegetable crops has proven to be invaluable here in Colorado where most standard crop varieties fail to thrive at all.

Thanks to Joseph Lofthouse for introducing me to the Landrace Breeding concept. He is world famous now.

Even scientists are using his definition and proposing it be the new definition going forward as that is the most common usage of "landrace" now. Here is the paper:

Front Plant Sci. 2017; 8: 145.

[quote]...
we propose a more inclusive definition of landraces, namely that they
consist of cultivated varieties that have evolved and may continue
evolving, using conventional or modern breeding techniques, in
traditional or new agricultural environments within a defined
ecogeographical area and under the influence of the local human culture.
This includes adaptation of landraces to new management systems and the
unconscious or conscious selection made by farmers or breeders using
available technology.[/quote]