Hi Dave- IÂve actually thought about doing some sort of grid/squares to hold the berries in both directions, but in the end, it was more me being pedantic rather than benefiting the berries. Yes, you can do it, and yes, it will likely work, and yes, you will get nice berries but, itÂs probably overkill and will likely be a pain when you try to remove the canes. But, I donÂt think there is a wrong way here just different ways which will require more work and possibly more money. If youÂre looking to over-engineer something, again iron pipe is the way to go. It sounds like you and I have similar requirements: Strong, wonÂt affect view, easily removable, wonÂt rot. In my case, those iron pipes are actually joined to a socket in concrete just below the soil line. That way, I easily unscrew the trellis in the fall, and then mow Âem down with my lawn mower. (And, I donÂt have to look at the trellis all winter) Yes, one trellis wouldnÂt be so bad to look at but, when you have 12 trellises, and a bunch of other similar pieces of hardware back there, I try to do all I can to make things blend in. But, the iron pipe will be expensive, and I actually had to special order the cross piece at the center. As for the wire No, birds donÂt sit on my wires. They did sit on my pipe though on my blackberry trellis especially because itÂs near the bird feeder. But, you can pics of how I got around that using the link below. Good luck! -Glenn Here is a link that might be useful: Blackberry Trellis with Bird Spikes

Dave: There has been a good deal of consolidation in the mailorder nursery business in the past 10 years, and Henry Fields is no longer the independent Iowa nursery that it once was. Like Gurney's and several others (including the outstanding Rocky Meadow Nursery of Indiana), Fields has been absorbed by the Gardens Alive! operation of Lawerenceburg, Indiana. When you order from any of these nurseries, the stock is packed and shipped from the same warehouse. That does not always mean you will receive poor quality or mislabeled stock, but the odds of this happening increase in a very large operation. This is big business, not your neighborhood nurseryman. Gardens Alive! made a nice little pile of money by selling overpriced "organic" gardening products to unsuspecting souls, then used the proceeds to buy up struggling operations. There are still a few independent nurseries that specialize in berry plants. One is Indiana Plant and Berry (where I usually order from); another is Nourse Farms of Massachusetts. I agree with Harvestman that, from your description of their growth habit, you have black raspberries there. Some people prefer blacks to reds, but they are not primocane bearers like Heritage or the several other "everbearing" red varieties. The canes must overwinter to bear, and should be pruned back to about 4-5 feet in early spring before they begin to leaf out. Cane growth is just as you describe, and the long canes will arch over and tiproot if allowed to do so during the growing season. This is the principal way that black raspberries spread, as opposed to red raspberries, which spread by underground stolons. If you want seriously good grapes you should order from a nursery that specializes in grapes, and choose your varieties carefully. I am not a grape expert, but there are several who post regularly here who would be glad to advise you on variety selection and choice of a source. Like fruit trees, grape vines are a long-term investment of time as well as money, and you might as well start with the best even if it costs a few dollars more. I have noticed that many grape growers are happy with the newer Jupiter variety. At this point, you might as well prune your black raspberries back in spring, allow them to fruit, and see if you like them. If you still want to plant reds, I would suggest the newer variety Caroline over the older Heritage. I had Heritage here, but took them out because of poor production and quality problems. Now I grow Baba, a California berry that would be inappropriate for Iowa, but Caroline might be perfect for you. Indiana Plant does not carry Caroline, but I am pretty sure Nourse Farms does. Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

Ha! I've been called out! :-) Fanatic is as good of word as any. Thanks Olpea! I was actually waiting to see if someone could offer better advice here than I could. But, since there's nobody yet... As for thornless raspberries... I grow Joan J which is indeed thornless. It is about the only one which I know of which is truly so. Some others here (such as the well respected Fruitgirl for one) had Âdissed Joan J in the flavor department. At the time, I couldnÂt see it because mine tasted fine. But, this year was different. During the beginning of the year, they tasted pretty darn lousy but then they seemed to get better as the year went on. IÂm wondering if it had something to do with the record setting rains we had this spring and early summer here in RI. Perhaps Joan JÂs flavor is more subject to too much rain? IÂm not sure. But, as Olpea points out, the thorns of most of my red and yellow raspberries really arenÂt that bad. Black raspberry thorns are a bit vicious. And thorny blackberries are definitely quite vicious (which is why I really prefer thornless blackberries). But, because the reds/yellow thorns arenÂt bad at all, I wouldnÂt limit yourself to the very few thornless varieties. The part I didnÂt know how to answer in the best technical manner was the "suckering out from the crown". IÂm drawing a blank on what this trait is called, but it must have one. (IÂm sure IÂll slap myself when someone reminds me). Anyway, my Jewel black raspberries have this quality. If I plant one plant years later, there will still be a local grouping of 2-5 canes within a 1" diameter. (But, they are very thorny, so perhaps this isnÂt a good candidate for you) In my case, the same red/yellow raspberry would have exploded to fill any bed within 3 years. My Chester, Triple Crown, and Doyle blackberries and I believe my hybrid Wyeberry also have this quality youÂre looking for. So based on all of this might you prefer some thornless blackberries instead? YouÂll need to wait about 15 months after you plant them to start harvesting your berries, and youÂll need to provide them some strong support (If you click on my "My Page", you can see what I mean). Stay away from the thornless blackberries with native-American sounding names because I believe all of them do sucker out from the crown. Where in 6b are you located exactly? Get back to us on which way your leaning, and we can probably help steer you further. Hope this helps, -Glenn

I like Johnny's Seed - Seed Starting Calculator. http://www.johnnyseeds.com/e-PDGSeedStart.aspx??source=HomeSeedCalc0111. I will probably use this calculator this year to determine the planting dates and use Martha Stewart's Seed Starting Worksheet - www.marthastewart.com/seed-worksheet - to keep tract of what I do. I agree with you - I have got to keep better records of what/when I plant and when/what to fertilize. I finally organized an excel worksheet for ordering our vegetable seeds - I think I have that documented for easy seed ordering decisions. Here are a couple of photos of our soil sifter (we have rocky soil in places) - we built it to fit our wheel barrow so it does not move once I place it on the wheel barrow. It works pretty good for sifting soil in a small area. I go down the garden row and throw in surface rocks then dump the rocks in my 4-wheel trailer and dump the wheel barrow of dirt back in the garden. Thought it might also come in handy for sifting soil for the Soil block mixture. FYI RE: Row Cover Gardening Posted by: karin_mt 4 (My Page) on Thu, Dec 30, 10 at 12:21 I like both of those web resources for seed starting. The Johnny's one is particularly cool. I found that the hardest thing was forecasting the frost-free date inside my greenhouse so I could predict when to start plants that are destined to stay inside. And yes, a customized Excel sheet is a great way to go! I have an Excel database that starts from the very beginning of our gardens, so I have a pretty good history of what I've planted each year, where it's from and how it did. There are a few gaps though, notably which type of raspberry variety is where. I also have a little bar graph that I use to track the planting dates, exciting weather events, bloom periods and key harvests. Each year I print out the template, then fill in the bars by hand over the relevant dates. This gives a very interesting comparison of your growing climate from year to year. Maybe someday these will be key pieces of climate data? The note-taking is also helpful for reflection - it helps you firm up your thoughts. Now, your soil screener looks like a very nice tool. I like that it fits firmly on the wheel barrow. What do you do with all the rocky stuff that is left over? Maybe you'll have enough for a stone border? Do you have alkaline soil too? Do you find that your soil gets clumpy, even when it's nice soil? That's something I've noticed lately. Even though the soil is beautifully textured (not clay), it forms hard clumps. I am wondering if this is from alkalinity and the particles being inclined to stick together. RE: Row Cover Gardening Posted by: 7000feet 3 (My Page) on Fri, Dec 31, 10 at 10:40 Your method for keeping notes is helpful! The Salt River runs through our property (a mild to raging stream depending on the runoff and irrigation needs - so I return the rocks to their rightful owner - the river. We have great soil because we are on an ancient river bed but the bad part is the top soil varies from 0-36" depending on the swells. We tried to locate our garden on deep top soil but still had to haul off large rocks in the beginning and now sift the soil as we plant and haul off the small rocks. I haven't tested our PH but is alkaline soil like yours. It does get clumpy but try to keep it moist during germination and use a lot of mulch to keep the walk areas dry/walkable. We add manure every fall before plowing the garden. We purchased sifted top soil for the GH and added a lot of vermiculite, peat moss & compost - not problems with GH soil. Here is a photo of what works well for us to remove rocks from our garden. I purchased this wonderful dumping trailer that hooks on my 4-wheeler. I rake the rocks in a row and use a manure fork to throw them in the trailer - then dump the rocks on the river bed with their cousins. RE: Row Cover Gardening Posted by: soonergrandmom Z6 Grove (My Page) on Sat, Jan 1, 11 at 16:26 I have used the mini-block maker for years. I use either Jiffy Mix or ProMix with it. With ProMix you may have to throw out a small stick or two, but it holds together fine. I didn't know about the attachment for the medium block maker that makes the hole for the little one to fit into until several years after I bought mine, and I never remember to order it. So I don't use the two blocks together. Some things grow so rapidly that they need to be started in the medium size, but I start all tomato and pepper seeds in the tiny block and pot up to small containers when they get their first real leaves or when they appear to be a good strong seedling. Some things I don't need to plant 20 of, so I write the name on a popsicle stick, lay the popsicle stick between the row of blocks and slide the blocks over in groups of five to a small piece of foil. I crimp the foil up a little to hold the stick so I don't lose the name. I don't make real plant markers until I am sure I have good transplants. I make the permanent marker at the time I put them in their first small container. I am much more likely to plant 5 seeds of 4 varieties of tomato than I am to plant 20 of the same kind, so it works well for me. RE: Row Cover Gardening Posted by: ngrrsn 7 (My Page) on Tue, Sep 11, 12 at 1:33 Would like to know more about the tunnel construction; why the wire mesh instead of pvc or waterline pipe? What is the mesh sizing? Is this welded wire? What size is the wire (#10,12,14)? How easy is it to form the wire? Is it fairly strong, or does it bend easy? Why the gaps between sections of wire? How is the wire secured to the ground? What is the height of the tunnel at the center line? I am very interested in this. RE: Row Cover Gardening Posted by: Hudson...WY 3 (My Page) on Fri, Sep 28, 12 at 9:09 The mesh is 47" 12 1/2 gauge Field Fence available at most farm supply stores - a full roll is 330' but most stores have smaller rolls as well. I cut the fence in 6' lengths with small bolt cutter or wire cutter and cut the vertical wire such that there is 6" of wire on both sides of the hopes to push into the ground to anchor the fence. The center height is approx. 24". I plant in wide rows of 30". The mesh size is 6" squares (for easy reach-in, weeding etc.) although the bottom couple of rows are a bit smaller. I gap the fence in the rows approx. 18" to reduce the cost and because the row cover does not sag with the gap. I like the fence because it will last many years and I live in a climate where we have had snow every month of the year and periods of hail or strong wind. The fence does an excellent job holding up the weight of the snow and withstanding the wind/hail etc. It pulls out easy at season end and stores by stacking one inside the other. I have never tried PVC pipe so I am not in a position to compare. I am sure this fence method is more expensive but I like the way it performs. RE: Row Cover Gardening Posted by: Hudson...WY none3 (My Page) on Fri, Sep 28, 12 at 10:44 This Years Broccoli using the tunnel method - keeps out the insects too. I usually plant veggies in the garden with the row cover the 1st week of may or earlier if I can work the soil. Without the row cover, there is a threat of frost until the middle of June and after the end of August. Well worth the effort! RE: Row Cover Gardening Posted by: ngrrsn 7 (My Page) on Fri, Sep 28, 12 at 17:18 Thanks! That helped a lot! I Appreciate the follow up. 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