I'll stick my neck out here. Medlars are usually grafted onto Hawthorn rootstock, but can be grafted onto pears I believe. According to Lee Reich (Uncommon fruits for every garden -- good book to check out), shipova too may possibly be able to be grafted onto pear. Pear commonly used to be grafted onto quince to dwarf it, but I believe that quince cannot be grafted onto a pear rootstock. So one possibly is to start with a quince rootstock, add a pear interstem at some point, and then graft both medlar and shipova onto that. Would be an interesting tree if it worked. I am just starting to grow some quince trees, one I bought from a nursery and one from seed (I believe they come reasonably true to type from seed, since there is not much difference between different varieties to start with). I also have a couple of young medlars. My brother in Australia has a beautiful medlar tree. He uses the fruit to make a tasty preserve, which we had with turkey at Christmas last year. I think medlars are probably best used to make preserves, paste etc rather than eaten fresh -- not that they are awful fresh, it's just that once you get the big seeds out there is not a lot of flesh per medlar. Personally I think the tree is worth growing just for its looks. Shipova remains an unknown quantity to me; Lee Reich's book is probably the best source of information on it.

I hadn't heard that quince don't work on pear.

My sister has a European pear of unknown variety and I grafted several varieties of quince onto it last spring.

All of the grafts took. It remains to be seen if they have difficulty with delayed incompatibility.

I have a Shipova and also an Alaya Krupnaya Mt. ash grafted to Autumn Magic aronia bushes. The grafts took and they made it through their first winter. It remains to be seen what they do from here. Its just an experiment.

I also have a hawthorne rootstock with Old Home pear grafted to it. I budded Hosui to the Old Home, but I'm not sure if the bud is still viable. It hasn't broken yet. If it doesn't I'll graft Hosui to it later in the spring.

Finally, I have an unknown apple rootstock to which I've grafted Fertility pear and Winter Banana apple, both of which are purportedly compatible with both apples and pears.

To the fertility I've budded Hosui and Golden Russet Bosc. I'll be grafting some more this spring.

I'm intrigued with medlars. I decided last Fall that I'd put a block of them into the orchard. Ironically enough, I'm about to begin the benchgrafting tomorrow for these trees. I ordered two different hawthorn (Crataegus) as rootstock so I could see over time which one ultimately works the best, although I'm hoping they're equally successful. I decided to go with C. crus-galli and C. monogyna and purchased my Crataegus from Lawyer Nursery.

The rootstocks arrived yesterday and I opened the box to take a peek at them. They're quite spiny (I have a feeling I'm going to be happy once the grafting is behind me.) and their caliper is quite variable because Lawyer Nursery doesn't size these. So I'm planning on setting the dozen largest trees aside to simply be specimen trees on the perimeter of the orchard.

The medlar collection at the USDA Germplasm Repository in Corvallis, OR is quite impressive in its scope. If you're going the route of grafting your own trees, you'll have many cultivars from which to choose. I chose six: Breda Giant, Nottingham, Puciu Big, Puciolot, Sultan & Westerveld. Tomorrow I'll begin benchgrafting 30 trees of each (15 each onto the two different hawthorn) with the hopes of a final count of 24 mature trees of each. If I'm lucky, I'll end up with a 'gross of medlars' (quite the dubious distinction), which seems appropriate given how the fruit look after having bletted.

I'll post an update later in the year letting you know how many grafts actually took and how the little trees are doing. I'm going to grow them out in a raised bed for this first year, and will be transplanting them into their permanent locations in the orchard in Spring '09.

John

Here is a link that might be useful: Medlar Collection / Germplasm Repository in Corvallis

I'm intrigued with medlars. I decided last Fall that I'd put a block of them into the orchard. Ironically enough, I'm about to begin the benchgrafting tomorrow for these trees. I ordered two different hawthorn (Crataegus) as rootstock so I could see over time which one ultimately works the best, although I'm hoping they're equally successful. I decided to go with C. crus-galli and C. monogyna and purchased my Crataegus from Lawyer Nursery.

The rootstocks arrived yesterday and I opened the box to take a peek at them. They're quite spiny (I have a feeling I'm going to be happy once the grafting is behind me.) and their caliper is quite variable because Lawyer Nursery doesn't size these. So I'm planning on setting the dozen largest trees aside to simply be specimen trees on the perimeter of the orchard.

The medlar collection at the USDA Germplasm Repository in Corvallis, OR is quite impressive in its scope. If you're going the route of grafting your own trees, you'll have many cultivars from which to choose. I chose six: Breda Giant, Nottingham, Puciu Big, Puciolot, Sultan & Westerveld. Tomorrow I'll begin benchgrafting 30 trees of each (15 each onto the two different hawthorn) with the hopes of a final count of 24 mature trees of each. If I'm lucky, I'll end up with a 'gross of medlars' (quite the dubious distinction), which seems appropriate given how the fruit look after having bletted.

I'll post an update later in the year letting you know how many grafts actually took and how the little trees are doing. I'm going to grow them out in a raised bed for this first year, and will be transplanting them into their permanent locations in the orchard in Spring '09.

John

Here is a link that might be useful: Medlar Collection / Germplasm Repository in Corvallis

John,

I would advise you to graft as low on the hawthorn as possible. When they go into their final planting holes, you will want the graft union well covered with soil. A tall hawthorn graft means you have to dig the hole deeper to cover the union.

The reason for all this is so the medlar can be afforded an opportunity to self-root before the union fails, and it will. I had the Nottingham grafted to a local hawthorn, it grew very well for 3 seasons, then promptly broke off at the overgrown (to the extreme) graft union last summer in moderate wind.

I have heard that they blett much nicer in a bed of slightly moist leaves or sawdust. No shrinkage that way.

I am located a half hour from Corvallis. It is a good repository! And the people there are wonderful.

Thanks so much for the grafting advice. You caught me just in the nick of time! I'll be sure to graft as low as I can on the hawthorn. Much however is going to be dictated by the caliper of the hawthorn and of the medlar scionwood. And it looks like the caliper of the hawthorn I received is all OVER the place.

In Lawyer Nursery's defense, they made it clear to me prior to purchasing the hawthorn that this would be the case.

I'll let you know how it all goes.

John

I managed to find a few orchards that would actually ship medlar fruits, so I ordered some and tried them.

They're OK. Not too sweet, not too sour, have a mild apple/berry flavor to them. Can be fun to eat, as you peel, then suck out the pulp, then spit the seeds, but this can also be annoying. You can get a bunch of pulp at once by pushing the fruit a seive/food mill.

They might not be the tastiest fruit, but I guess they are useful; the tree is pretty tough/disease resistant, and they're some of the last fruits picked, and then you have to blet them, after which they store pretty well, so they provide fresh fruit in middle of winter

Quince, medlar and shipova can all be grafted onto pear, though I think there are some pear varieties that won't take quince grafts.

Interesting thread! At least for grafting pear onto Hawthorn. I read where hawthorn can be used when grafting pear scions and I have six Washington Hawthorns about eight years old and was wondering how, (or if it's possible) to get more pears in my orchard relatively quickly. Can they be topworked? How low can I cut the trunk? Are the hawthorns too old? And what are some of your favorite european pears?
Herbert

I read where hawthorn can be used when grafting pear scions and I have six Washington Hawthorns about eight years old and was wondering how, (or if it's possible) to get more pears in my orchard relatively quickly. Can they be topworked? How low can I cut the trunk? Are the hawthorns too old?

I also have wild apple trees that are slated for cutting and was wondering if a 15 yr old tree could be grafted. It's in an excellent sunny spot, but next to the woods. Insect pressure may be too much. But I'm hooked on grafting! I gotta try it! Unless it's a bad idea.
Herbert

John of Lamb Abbey,

When the bark is not slipping on the hawthorn stock, here is what to do when you want to graft low and the sizes are hugely different. Make a regular whip&tongue cut on your medlar whose caliber is way too small, then carefully make a matching wound in the large rootstock. Then actually make a tongue on the stock by back-cutting, then slide the scion home, matching as well as possible. I frequently use this technique. Maybe I should call it the modified rind/bark-whip&tongue graft! Anyway, it works good and saves the day. Of course, if you can wait till the hawthorn bark is slipping nicely, you can just do a regular bark graft, which work a treat too. Cover the whole scion with grafting glue after completing the graft (prevents the scion from drying out). Make certain that all air holes are plugged so the union cannot dry out. Don't let any glue get into the union either.

Dethride,

Apple trees are easy to work over from a 12 inch stump from ground level. Unless you want to work each individual branch over, which allows you to put many kinds on one tree.

Wait till the tree has put on a leaf or two, then wack it cleanly with a chain saw (if working over individual limbs, a sharp hacksaw makes nice clean cuts!). Score the bark with a sharp knife every 2 inches around the circumference, insert shaved scions into each slit, then bind the whole thing with electrical tape. Plug all holes (combination of small strips of tape and/or modeling clay or plumbers putty), then cover grafted scions with glue. They will all grow over the summer. I have seen them go 6 and 8 feet each! Next winter, save the best upright, cutting all the others back to one or two buds. This keeps the bark alive all around the tree, not letting it die. The huge wound will disappear in 10 years or so, but needs a little maintainance every winter to keep the main upright, the main upright. I coat the ugly wound in the fall (big wound is nice and dry at this point), before rains start with roofing compound, some use copper fungicide. This keeps the wood from rotting before the gap closes.

You should be getting apples around 3 or 4 seasons from when you initially graft. I think it is worth it when you don't have to do 1000 trees this way. Great for the homeowner who wants to make use of a wonderful root system already in the ground!

For the link below, I recommend the single-cut bark graft. It is less messing around than the double cut kind, and works just as good. Also, the scion (two or three nice buds) need not have any shoulder like they portray. Just a simple long wedge will work fine. And I have never used nails. Some of my scionwood just would not handle a nail as sometimes the scion is too small.

Here is a link that might be useful: Bark Graft

I made my first medlar grafts a week or two ago (to my existing medlar) and every graft took quickly -- they seem like a very easy fruit to graft.

I also don't worry about caliper a whole lot, there is a graft for any pair of calipers. The one thing I do try to avoid is large scion on teeny stock, so sort out your stock/scion sizes to minimize that. Even in that case I have gotten many good grafts, either by chip budding a thin chip if the caliper is way off, or by aligning one edge only if they are not too far off. For the reverse mismatch I do a technique similar to plumfans or a cleft graft (or a bark graft if the bark is slipping on the stock).

Scott

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

I just finished bench grafting all of my medlars. It was a little more work than I'd anticipated because of the varying calipers of the hawthorn rootstock and the thorns that I wasn't anticipating. I now get the thorn part of haw-thorn.

I whip-and-tongue grafted everything and tried my best to divide the scionwood equally between both hawthorn rootstocks I was using (C. crus-galli and C. monogyna.) The medlar scions were easy to work with, although given the varying caliper of both rootstock and scionwood, I found myself only able to line up the cambium on one side of many of the grafts. We'll see how well they take. I made sure each graft had two healthy buds.

I prefer the C. crus-galli to the C. monogyna, mostly because the root system on the former just seemed more substantial, and the taproot noticeably thicker. Many of the C. monogyna rootstocks had a 'root' that was just basically one deep taproot with little if any side roots. I don't know how indicative this is of the species. The C. monogyna may simply have been a year younger than the C. crus-galli I received (from Lawyer Nursery).

I grafted as low onto the rootstock as I could, but in many instances chose to go a bit higher than I'd anticipated (6" to 8") just to get a good fit. Worse case, I'm assuming that I can just dig a deeper hole where necessary so that the graft union can be buried.

All-in-all, I grafted 180 trees in the hopes of ending up with 144 final (80% success rate). I'll drop a note later in the Summer with an update.

John

I just wanted to post an update on the medlar grafts from this past Spring. I ended up with about a 90% take on the grafts and the six cultivars I grafted (Breda Giant, Nottingham, Puciu Big, Puciulot, Sultan & Westerveld) seem to be doing well. Most flowered within six weeks (!) and eventually pushed out new growth from the location of the flower to begin forming the young trees.

One variety in particular--Breda Giant--looks to be the fastest grower with about 16" of new growth as of July 20th. The other five cultivars have anywhere between 6" and 12" of growth so far. I'm guessing they'll eventually catch up. I don't notice much difference in growth between the two different rootstocks I used (C. crus-galli and C. monogyna), although the C. crus-galli had a more substantial root system when lined out.

I did have about a half dozen (of the 160 successful grafts) push out new growth and then fail, but this was consistent to a particular cultivar or rootstock. I should still have twelve dozen trees to transplant next Spring, assuming these continue to grow and make it through the winter just fine.

I'd recommend using either Crataegus rootstock if you should attempt to graft your own Medlars. I'm not noticing any incompatibility problems, but this could change over time. I'll keep you posted.

John

Whoops. . .

I meant to say in the previous post that the six grafts that eventually failed were NOT specific to a particular cultivar or rootstock.

My oversight.

John

Hi,

Does anyone know the answer to these questions?

I would like to, if possible, make two very unusual fruit-cocktail trees of fruiting trees in the Rose family.

I'd like to mix:

One Tree (Crataegus-Malus-Sorbus-Amelanchier-Mespilus-Pyrus Tree)
Hawthorn (if the root-stock, C. crus-galli)
Juneberry (if the root-stock, A. canadensis)
Medlar
Asian Pear
Crab-Apple (one of the natives)
American Mountain-Ash (Sorbus americana)

If so, which one of these should be the root-stock?

A second Tree (Native Plum Multi-Graft):
American Plum
Chickasaw Plum
Beach Plum
Dunbar's Plum (P. americana x P. maritima)
Wild Goose Plum
Canadian Wild Plum

Can this be done (either of these two)?

Also, I'd like to know if you think that if I planted to paw paw trees of contrasting cultivars a mere 8" away apart from eachother, if in time, the trunks of both would expand until they inosculated to form one tree sporting limbs of each cultivar on opposite ends. I only have space to allow a single paw paw (18') to develop into a full, unpruned tree of maximum size-potential. Or maybe I can plant them 2' apart and still get a natural, dual multi-trunk specimen?

Thanks,
Steve