lychee:

Not likely they are from Italy this time of year. More likely Chile or somewhere else in the Southern Hemisphere. I'd like to know what they are as well.

fruitnut- i think u r right. much more likely to be chilean- cant believe the store would outright lie- they put a sign next to the grapes saying Italian- that way they are able justify charging $3.99/lb. they are super delicious.

are they seeded grapes?

as noted in the original post, they are seedless

I am used to seeing red flame grapes from chile this time of year. I have 2 flame grape vines and those look like my grapes

no- these are definitely not flame grapes.

I had some seedless muscat grapes from Chile last year that were the best grapes I have ever eaten in my life. I don't think the vines are available for sale in the US yet, I tried to find them to plant in my new grape area but I gave up. I hope that eventually they will appear in nurseries here in North America and I will be able to buy and plant one in the future.

I grew up in NYC area and remember eating those kinds of grapes....perhaps they mean it's an Italian varietal but grapes in the market now are from southern hemisphere. Italian variety, grown in Chile, (or maybe they are just messing up....)

I don't know what they are...

I have an awesome seeded muscat grape, a hybrid of Saint Pepin x Alden, that I grew from a cross made about ten years ago. It has the advantage of being resistant to powdery mildew, which, if this one is a Vinifera grape, it will suffer with in NY.

{{gwi:55128}}

Boizeu. Any chance you would give me a scion of your vine, so i can harvest a bud to graft onto my golden muscat vine (unfortunately no room to grow a new vine from a cutting). if yes, when is the best time to do this?

LL, I think that grape is often called Muscat Rosada. I'm not sure where it comes from, it may be a Chilean or Israeli variety. Not sure if its available in the US or not.

Scott

thanks soctt- googled muscat roasada but didnt come up with a great deal. virtually certain that this grape is chilean. def not israeli as they would nto have ripe grapes in april- they would be on a similar timetable to NY- Grapes would not ripen there till august.

have u ever tasted these grapes scott?

LL, I meant to add that I got some at the store a few days ago. They are a very good grape with plenty of muscat flavor. They are not quite as sweet or intensely muscat as my Muscat of Alexandria but they are seedless which is a huge plus.

The grapes are definitely grown in Chile, it is the variety that may be Israeli. David Karp wrote an article about some seedless muscat grapes that come from Chile to stores in Mar/Apr and said they were an Israeli variety. My personal guess is they are a recent variety that was bred in Chile, I know that they have been breeding a lot of new grapes in Chile recently for their export market.

I think the Italian connection in them is that Muscat grapes were commonly called Italia and may still be by some people.

Scott

wow- your muscat of alexandria must be one heck of a grape if they r sweeter and muscatier than these. any chance i could get a cutting?

Sure, ask me next winter. Its already budding this year. I am probably not going to keep it for too many years more since its disease-prone. If you don't mind disease-prone grapes there are the two new muscat grapes bred in California that are seedless. One is called Summer Muscat and I forget the name of the other one. I am hoping I will be happy enough with my Jupiter and Sweet Seduction, two more disease-resistant seedless muscat types.

Scott

You make me want to eat some Grapes. The best grape I have ever eaten was in Egypt. They call it Banati. It is seedless , small in size, light green and 100 times sweeter than sugar. I did not eat it by ones. I ate it by hand full.

Scott,

Might the other grape you are thinking of be "Princess"? It is said to be a seedless grape with decent muscat flavor. I had a plant, but it died in a misadventure.

"Summer Muscat" is seedless? Hey, I think I actually have a rooted cutting of that one. I'll have to check my excessively-large collection of fig/grape potted cuttings tomorrow ...

At a fig and grape tasting at the USDA Wolfskill germplasm repository, I thought that "Angel Muscat" and "Suavis" (both seeded) had perhaps the most intense flavor/aroma of all the grapes that we were sampling. (This was relatively late in the season, in early September.) I liked both so much that I requested cuttings from the repository. (I suppose the cultivars might have disease issues in more humid climates.)

Ashok, I looked it up and it was Summer Royal I was thinking of but it is not a muscat..

If you just want flavor the seeded grapes have a lot more to offer. Unfortunately my kids (and many other folks these days) don't touch seeded grapes so unless they are to be processed I am wanting to grow seedless. The combo of disease-resistant and seedless then really narrows things.

Scott

Just read this in an online NY Times article, and it gave me deja vu, remembering this thread.

"Clearly thereâÂÂs some demand because modest quantities of Italia, an old seeded variety, are shipped from California and Italy, and a round, pinkish, Israeli-bred seedless muscat, Mystery, is imported from Chile in March and April. "

Mystery? Could that be it? Tried running a search on the variety name, but, naturally, all I really came up with were a bunch of mystery grapes.

Here is a link that might be useful: New Grapes Abound with Old World Flavor

Italia (Muscat)

Obtained by crossing the Bicane and Hamburg Muscatel grapes, Italia (Muscat) is certainly one of the most popular varieties of table grapes in the world due to its appearance and flavor, as well as its hardiness in withstanding handling and shipping. Italia grapes have large, consistent fruit with a lovely golden-yellow color, and a delicate, pleasant musky flavor.
source: http://www.producepete.com/shows/muscat.html
-------------

As an aside I just had my first taste of Jupiter grape (PP13,309) in Phoenix (Mesa actually), AZ backyard last Saturday. So good, I looked it up and made a note to get a vine next season.

Well established arbor with heavy fruit in the shaded part of the arbor---sized up and colored up dark blue just fine on its own without clipping or gibberellin, and unfortunately for commercial growers, but great for home owners purple and green (not yet ripe) clusters side by side for extended harvest period.

This post was edited by Fascist_Nation on Wed, Jun 25, 14 at 14:28

Jupiter is nearly uneatable to my taste. The pulp is OK but the skin is awful.

For pure strong Muscat flavor Summer Muscat is a 10. Best tasting grape I've eaten by a large margin. But even in my greenhouse the berries are small and they crack worse than anything else.

For production and taste try Summer Royal. It has big berries and properly grown a wonderful sweet flavor.

Crimson seedless is excellent for the late season, Oct to Dec if it doesn't rain.

Just this spring I found those same grapes at Whole Foods. They were universally acclaimed in the family, as they had plenty of sugar and a very rich flavor.

I'm growing some real muscadines, most of which are not seedless, but they haven't really taken off like the Jupiter I planted this spring (from Double A). I'm happy to hear some positive reviews about it, in addition to the skin-troubles Fruitnut has had with it.

Here's some more info on this grape. I had it regularly at Pike Place Market in Seattle, and fell in love with it.
It was bred by the Volcani Ag Research Org in Israel, and released as Volcani 108.
It is available in Australia:
http://esvc000718.wic056u.server-web.com/table_grape.htm

The grape seems like a winner, with good color, flavor, and texture, but the name 'Mystery' is failing to take hold of the imagination.
http://linkstofood.com/blog/articles/52/seedless-muscat-grapes
I wrote Dr. Avi Perl at Volcani ARO, and he says that to his knowledge, 108 has not been released in America. Apparently it would take 3-4 years and $3000-$4000 to do a virus quarantine on it. That would be the "right" way to do it. (I wouldn't know anything about smuggling cuttings in from Oz or Chile.) I have asked a local foundation with Israel/American agricultural exchange interests if they could help with the imporatation process, as this grape might be a winner for CA as well.

I hope this grape does make its way into the US, as I am quite fond of it.

---Mark Miner