You grafted persimmons onto a Medlar?

Carla in Sac

Carla, I think Lou got medlar scions from Cliff England.

Lou - you did well!
I have a hard time getting persimmon grafts going on side branches - it's hard to keep the tree from just aborting them and channeling its resources into its own wood. I'd recommend cutting back/off any vigorous shoots of the rootstock tree that are in close proximity to your grafts, especially if they grew 'taller' than the graft last season; otherwise you may experience premature decline of the graft.

One problem with grafting branches on persimmon is that they 'self-prune' as they age and grow taller - lower branches are eventually shaded, decline, and drop off; so... in time, the varieties grafted onto lower branches may disappear from the scene.

Sautesmom
Sorry I misspelled that. I meant Meader tree such as described on this link.
http://www.millernurseries.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=47

Thanks again Lucky
Lou

Here is a link that might be useful: Meader persimmon

LOL too funny--I was just confused because Medlars and Persimmons are not in the same family, and Persimmons are hard enough to graft as it is. I didn't figure out you meant Meader because we can't grow American persimmons in California, so it's not a name I am familiar with (well, not that we CAN'T grow them--shipping them here is prohibited, so it's rare to find anything other than Japanese ones)

But I agree, beautiful looking grafts!

Carla in Sac

Hi Lou,

What method of grafting did you use? Cleft, Bark, Or Saddle? and when was is done? Buds swell or starting to leaf out?

Tony

Tony,
I'm not Lou, but I routinely do a slightly modified simple bark graft on persimmons, and get probably 90+% takes, provided the scionwood is in good condition. I do them anytime I can steal a few minutes to get out and graft after the rootstocks start pushing leaves and the bark is slipping.

First couple of persimmons I grafted, I just did simple splice grafts, just like I learned to do with apples, and they did just fine - I didn't know persimmons were 'hard to graft' - actually, I don't think they're any harder to do than apples/pears - but aftercare is much more critical; you've got to check them almost daily to keep buds/shoots originating below the graft rubbed off, or they'll rapidly outgrow the grafted scion, it will decline, and die.

Check out Joe Real's bark-grafting pictorial tutorial - this is how I do almost everything, including nut trees:

Here is a link that might be useful: Joe Real's Bark-grafting Tutorial

I clicked on Joe Real's page just to review it again, and the pictures aren't loading--can anyone else get it to load?

Carla in Sac

Hi Tony,'
I just checked out the link Lucky gave you and only the first photo came up. All the photos on Joe's site are JPG files so I don't understand why only the one photo is showing. Try back again later.

As far as the grafts I used. I tried different types of grafting methods out. I use the Whip graft, Cleft, Whip and Tongue and the Splice graft. I found it rather easy
to do all of those grafting methods. I have grafted about 7 pear trees and about 10 apple trees a couple of years earlier and did just fine with all but a few. Most of them are still alive and growing in different peoples yards.

I mentioned that only two of the grafts I did on my persimmon tree refused to take. I did all the grafting in the early spring. Towards summer all the rest of them had grown leaves and increased in length. They where all doing well even into the first part of winter.

When spring arrived I inspected and found all but four to be still alive and budding. Remember I had a whole group of different American persimmon and others that where a variety crossed with Russian and other type persimmon varieties. I didn't mark any I did (a mistake) so I have no idea what type are living on the tree at this time.

I did do after care as Lucky mentioned above every few days. I had a good instructor in Lucky and Mr. England wrote me a few good instructional emails.

I must say I found it rather easy to apply those grafts to the tree. One thing I did do was to cover the entire scion and down over the grafting rubbers with melted grafting wax. I was thought that by Bass who has the Trees of Joy. com web site.

When I first did the pear and apple grafts two years earlier I covered each graft up with small plastic bags to keep in moisture. That seemed to work as well at that time

Hope this helped.
Lou.

Hi, lucky
I am kind of scratching my head about how to graft persimmon trees, while you said you have 90+ percentage success. Basically I have Zero success last few years trying to graft side branch persimmon trees ( Japanese varieties, fuyu, Jiro ). I did saddle and whip grafts while branches were begin to grow buds. I collect scions in late February and store in refrigerator. I have no problem with grafting other types of trees , such as pears.
Could it be the variety of persimmons make the difference ? Please help.

CC.

I had a very high percent persimmon grafts take with bark graft the last 4 yrs or so. I do a 1.5 inch angle cut on the scion and then a very small in depth cut about 1 inch on each side of the angle cut down to the tip. In addition, I made a small angle cut on the back side of at the tip for more cambium layer exposure. I used black electrical tape around the graft union as tight as possible then wrapped the whole scion with parafilm or IV tegaderm. I usually see buds break about 2 1/2 weeks. I rubbed off all the new growth below the scion every 5 days or so. You can learn how to bark graft on youtube.

Tony

This post was edited by tonytran on Sun, Jun 8, 14 at 22:23

Persimmon graft

Tony

Hi, Tony
Thanks for your info. I have some questions for you
- What are the root stocks you were using? Asian or American persimmon?
- Do you have any success grafting onto branches of a grown persimmon tree, without cutting out all other branches ?
- Did you try grafting methods other than bark grafting with success.
- what is the timing year for your bark grafting . Do you collect scions when they are in deep dormant and store in refrigerator?
Thanks
CC

CC

I grafted most of my Kakis on native 90 chromosomes D. V. Rootstocks. I do have several Kakis on Giant Hana Fuyu rootstocks for cold hardy trial in Z5A. SURE you can graft on branches of a mature tree. Only one catch is that persimmon tends to shred lower branches so graft high up. You can do a Whip and Tongue, Cleft, or Bark graft. I tried them all but preferred Bark graft for better results. I usually collect the scions in late February. I rinse them with 1/10 bleach solution to prevent molds and wrapped with moist paper towels of the same 1 part bleach and 9 part water solution. Placed them in a 1 gallon zip lock bag and stored in the fridge until early May for grafting. I graft when the temp in mid 70's for a period of a week. Good Luck. The photo below is my grown Prok and grafted a WS8-10, and 100-42 onto it.

Tony

This post was edited by tonytran on Sun, Jun 8, 14 at 19:31

Tony
I did similar works except a few differences:
- I didn't use bleach. Someone told me that bleach is toxic to plants. Do you use chlorine bleach, or oxygen bleach ?
- I only sealed the graft union with paraffin films, not the whole scion.
- I grafted on a side branch with other growing side branches on it. May be this was the main reason I failed. But I didn't have problem with grafting Asian pears trees this way. I will try cutting the whole branch next time , like you did in your photo.
Thanks again for your info.
CC

CC

I think the side branches you left on took all the energy supposed to go to the scion. 1/10 bleach solution won't kill any scions. I even use straight bleach to clean a bacteria canker on my peach tree. I have a multi grafted persimmon tree with Early Golden, Meader, WS8-10, H-118, H-120, U-20A, MB#3, Lena, Geneva Long, 100-43, and Knightville.

Tony

This post was edited by tonytran on Sun, Jun 8, 14 at 22:18

Hi, Tony and all....

i imported three dozens of Asian sweet persimmon from Korea 20 years ago, and plated in Virginia. They had produced good quality of persimmon for five years. The persimmon was seeded, sweeter and crispy. I collected and planted their seeds. I took scions from the mother persimmon and grafted on the seedling from their own seeds. I have no problem with grafting persimmon during right season. Strangely, I have found the grafted persimmon trees do not produce the same persimmon. They are bitter (tannic) and no longer sweet. But, when I use Scions from Fuyu on the same stocks, the grafted produce Fuyu.

I have contacted few college extension services, but unsuccessful.
Any one knows why and what I am doing wrong?

Farmer,

I have a Sheng, Honan Red, and Saijo on a Giant Hana Fuyu rootstocks for a cold hardy trial. They are only 2 years old grafts and have not fruit yet. I don't have a mother tree grafted on its own seedling rootstocks. I am not sure why it tasted bitter for you. The graft should be identical to the mother tree because you just use the root system of the seedling to feed the graft. You can try to graft that mother tree to a native persimmon rootstock and to see if the fruit taste the same.

Tony

Hey Lou! Congratulations on your beautiful grafts- looks like you got it down.

I grafted pears scions from your dad's pear several years ago and I'm happy to tell you that this year they are carrying a nice little crop. Thanks for sending them. I'm looking forward to trying them.

(For those that don't know the story, Lou's dad Joe saved cuttings from a doomed tree in a Pennsylvania coal mining area and decades later Lou shared with me, as well as sending me a great cd detailing whip and tongue grafting.)

Nice work- thanks for sharing the pictures.

Farmer,
You say that your 20 year old persimmons produced fruit for 5 years - what happened after that?
My best guess to explain what's going on is that if the original trees were grafted trees, then their rootstock may have at some point taken over, and the scions you used were of the original rootstock, which may produce bad tasting persimmons. I doubt it's the fault of your seedling rootstocks.