'Saturn' is only hardy to zone 5. 'Canadice' is one of the hardier seedless, but may still be marginal in zone 4. The hardiest of all would probably be 'Petite Jewell'. It is sold by Fedco Trees, but sold out right now. From Fedco's description: "Petite Jewell Grape. Early-Very Early. (MN 78 x Canadice) Swenson intro, Minn. Very small pink or light red seedless grape with exquisite flavor. Slightly larger than a garden pea. Grower Ike Kerschner wrote in an email to me, âÂÂThe flavor in my opinion is superior to Canadice and possibly the best flavored out of my collection of most of the available eastern seedless grapes.â¦When selling Petite Jewell [at farmers market] there is always a reluctance by buyers because of the small berry size. One taste convinces even the most skeptical customer.â John Marshall of Minnesota Grape Growers called Petite Jewell, âÂÂvery tasty, even remarkably tasty.â No objectionable seed remnants in the fruit. Small loose clusters. Blooms early and could be hit by late frosts. Although the vine I am testing in Palermo (Zone 4) has thus far proven hardy, growers have warned me about its tenderness. It is certainly hardier than Canadice, but may be damaged at -25ð. Z4(?) " I'm not aware of any other nurseries selling it. Here is a link that might be useful: Fedco

thanx for the info, Is there a spray or what can i do to prevent the mold? And is there a test that i can run on my soil for the salt content? I built a foot high raised box and filled it with a half and half mix of the soil that was there and vegetable growing potting soil from Home Depot.

Fruitnut, I don't have anything against the U of A grapes, but you're right to point out the brix levels in WI are much lower than what you'd get in TX. Mars and Reliance are plenty cold hardy, that's true. You'll notice they were two of the later ripening grapes tested in the trials, though. Their brix never got that high because it frosts in mid-Septemer here. The grapes need to survive the winter, but then produce something edible in the short summer before frost. That said, I have heard that people love the Reliance grape, even grown in WI. Somerset seedless started ripening late August and hung on the vine getting sweeter for a month. It's easier to get a decent crop out of the earlier maturing varieties. I only had room for a few varieties, so I planted Swenson Red, Somerset Seedless, and Interlaken (it was hard to choose between the greens, but Interlaken is supposed to make the best raisins. I put it in my warmest spot, on the south side of my house). I'd have liked to plant Trollhaugen, but I couldn't find a source.

I too agree that most vinifera taste good, and even some of the hybrids, such as Foch, which is also my favorite wine grape for food. Franktank, in WI you have to use hybrids, no vinifera. Even last year, terrible summer and all, Frontenac made it to full ripening. I think the hybrids are interesting grapes, with more fruit than vinifera, but more difficult to make into nice wine. As a matter of fact for wine I prefer Frontenac, but only if mixed with some CA grapes for tannins. But the hybrids will generally shine in blends, which is what I do. Scott, if you get organized, a really nice bottle of homemade wine can be had for less than $3. My blends are typically 60% MI -40% CA. CA may be $1/lb for the grapes, and MI, $60/lb (at least locally). So the wine for one 720 ml bottle comes to about $2.30 a bottle. You have to buy from someone who will destem them for you, so you take home just the juice. You have to have friends who will do it with you. Alone, it is a drag. You have to keep track of your bottles so you can reuse them over and over. I use 22 oz. beer bottles with beer caps, which I got from the refund bins. And you have to find a press at a garage sale for $10, though I have seen a number on craigslist for $100 or so. Plus spent grapes make great compost, the one I usually give to the tomatoes. The easiest way to make good wine is to ignore the cultivar and go for the ripest, highest Brix grapes. In the old days, when California Grape in Detroit had the crates outside, it was easy enough: you'd just buy the grapes with the most flies and wasps on. With ripe grapes, it is easy to make good wine, far easier than to make good beer.