I'm curious, Scarletdaisies, what do you think is wrong with your cucumbers and what is the property of boiled egg that will fix it?

There's a lot of b/s in that list as well as stuff that may technically work (somewhat), but there are better ways to do it.

It sounds like a come-on to co-opt and sell some "home remedy-down home-classic" feeling some people like to have with their garden.

They actually expect people to buy a whole book of this stuff? They probably have a bridge in AZ to sell too.

Seriously, if someone thinks all this is necessary for a successful garden, or even beneficial to a garden, then they need to find another hobby.

Dave

I got the same mailing... some of the stuff is pretty tried-and-true (I have heard about garlic with roses, and epsom salts), other stuff just sounds strange.

As for the chicken bones, I actually DID try grinding them up once, and believe me, it is NOT worth the time and effort!! Just go buy some bonemeal!

Sounds like the ghost of Jerry Baker...at least i think he's dead... did they tell you to put birth-control pills on your lawn? Jello on your houseplants? If you buy the DVD, you can prolly hear his cheap dentures slipping and clacking...

You're better off to haunt these forums, all the good spirits here give their secrets away for free...

Holy ghost, it is Jerry Baker! But I thought this guy was an old geezer...i wasn't even sure he was still alive....turns out he's only a year older than ME!!!!

{{gwi:89236}}

That would be 50! Has this guy ever eaten vegetables???

Did this topic get lost? I don't know who Jerry Baker is. I'm not sure if it potassium, calcium, or something like that, but it can't hurt, it's just an egg. I boiled them in the microwave in the shell. They exploded real nice even though I stabbed them in the middle before putting them in. They don't have to be pretty. It was too dark once I was done in the kitchen to bury them, so in the morning in they go.

I did put vics vaporub on the stems of the squash plants, let's see if that works. I found some young squash bugs, smashed some. If the vapor rub does nothing more than make them stick you your hands to smash them easier, I can vouch it worked. It's also one of the suggestions in the book, but not sure if for squash. I got that on this forum to use for squash, so can't blame the book for that folklore.

I thought it might be a good book, but too much for me for now. I've tried some of the home remedies, in different variations, and they only had a slight fix. It rained, too lazy to keep reapplying and it didn't work that good anyways. If you do more labor in your garden putting on insecticides, you might have a crop, but it's not worth it. There's got to be a better way.

I did see some lizards, yeah! One around the steps and 2 in the garden, plus one lady bug, now there's your fix. Natural predators! BT didn't work, with the svb not laying eggs, still I see frass on my white patty pan. I put down some on the ground where they killed my yellow squash and pumpkin, planted a fall crop of yellow squash, put some vaprub on the sprouts, I hope I didn't kill them. I have 2 acorn squash too I rubbed down.

Who knows what will work until you try. One yard does not think like the other.

How many cukes do you normally get per day from 4 vines growing on the ground? I got 3 gherkins this morning, 1 yesterday, and the giant ones I picked off last week sucked the vine dry, so it's recovering. I'm having a good year, but hot weather put the plants into shock at the same time the giant cukes were growing. I didn't expect to have a plant left.

I planted my eggs, pretty deep, and I'm confident something good will come of it.

I think these sort of folk methods and remedies appeal to many who have a deep suspicion of authorities (scientists, experts, etc.). There seems to be a nostalgia for olden times when things were (in idealized memory) better and easier.

It's not that some of these things might not work ... just that they are not all necessarily better or less expensive than some of the more "modern" approaches to the same issues.

I know my mom just loves all this stuff.

Scarletdaisies, do you think we may be able to find that book in the library?

I know many of the tricks you listed would not work because of my old dog. She gardened with me and ate up half a bag of bonemeal after a huge breakfast. Any bones, eggs, milk, and she'll open the screen door and come running.

But I have to try that Vics Vaporub thing on the cucumber. That just sounds too much fun!

I doubt he mentioned this ol' trick. Shred his book up and add it to your compost. Might cost $32.00 but probably will save anyone who bought his "book" time and $$$ in the long run...

I'm afraid to put the name up here, I'm not spamming, but others got the same advertisement, so it's Jerry Baker, shows I don't pay attention much. Didn't mean to be snippy about Jerry Baker, now I see who he is.

I just looked at the advertisement and seen his face and his name, so sorry about that. The name of the book is "Supermarket Super Gardens".

Wow! Did you see the Amazon.com price? I'll surely not own this book for a very long time.

If you buy insecticides that don't work, why do you keep buying them? If you have a set rule for your garden, you must have one like a fake lawn, plastic fruits and vegetables.

The reason people look to the past is because they farmed in the past without insecticides. How did they get by without all those chemicals, had wonderful gardens, so some of these have to work.

Here is a link that might be useful: Jerry Baker

I got this too and was going to post a question about it. They give "testimonies" from people who've apparently used the different approaches, plus pics to back them up. Really, enough searches on the internet will yeild just about any pic you want. It might be interesting to look through if you could find a used copy for cheap.

Abby

It's fine to look to the past, but it's better to look at mounds of research on what actually works and/or why other things don't work.

Doing something for the sake of doing something can turn out to be a waste of time if someone can't tell you what it's supposed to do. A lot of time there's overkill in these "old time" suggestions because they know something happened, but what part of what they added did something they don't know. There's also a lot of stuff that has been passed down that has nothing to do with anything except a cause-and-solution put together without anything but observations not taking in external factors.

We have an insane amount of knowledge of how nutrients and water flow through plants and soil now.

"Vanilla to keep cucumbers bug free all summer?"

Like many suggestions this is technically true, but "vanilla" is generic. Vanilla extract will not work. It's vanilla beans. These are very expensive, only effective when they still have oils available, and besides all that...they're weakly effective even when in best shape.

"Oatmeal, a handful or two, placed in hole with tranplants will keep them healthy?"

No. I have no idea what this nonsense could be about unless it's about attracting worms and someone read their kid's 6th grade science fair homework. I guess it could improve drainage if it doesn't take on mold, first (chances are it won't mold, though...chances are it does nothing).

"Chicken bones for gardens, planting them in the yard or grinding them up making bone meal?"

That's nice if you want to spend hours grinding well dried bones or you happen to own some industrial equipment...otherwise spending $2 on a bag of the stuff might be wise.

"Planting a boiled egg 6 to 8 inches deep with your cucumbers?"

Now this is one I'd love to hear. I'm sure it has something to do with the sulfur in the yolk (cucumbers are decent sulfur feeders) and the calcium in the egg shell, but well...file under overkill until enlightened.

"Deterring deer with 2 raw eggs, 2 cups water, 1 to 4 cloves garlic, and 2 tablespoons of hot sauce, blend in blender, sit for a few days, then pour it near vulnerable plants?"

That is a lot of trouble to make something that will not work for a lot of people.

Someone had luck with it or it wouldn't be there. How do you know until you try? It's modern to go organic, it's almost a fad even. I don't see why you would encourage someone to not follow. Following is an obsession these days, so I am at least in style for this area of interest.

I'd take something out of my kitchen, which I've tried for 3 years to do, with little success, but rather than get cancer from a chemical that has little success as well. My store bought experiment this year was BT, still organic and natural, but didn't do as much as I wanted or nothing at all. The roundup sprayer is what I needed. I get carpul tunnel very easily and no way am I going to spray by hand again after such a nice tool. I've learned a lot organic this year.

I've picked eggs of bugs I didn't know were killers leftover from last year and even dug them out of stems, lessening the infestation greatly. I did some organic stuff using too much soap and caused my leaves to have to regrow on every squash plant.

The black pepper, cayenne pepper, garlic powder, and what ever else I've used are all in combinations in this book. What works in one yard may not work in another and it may not work every year, so many suggestions will help other than just one.

This is a nice book, so I agree Abbey, I'll wait for a used copy and there will be sure to be many who are already buying it. Maybe he has an e-book that is cheaper, only have to download those.

It's science, not religion.

If you want some researched and peer reviewed advice for your garden, any particular crop, or the soil you're growing it in...it's out there.

There's many things out there that work, but they vary in how cheap and/or effective they are.

It is hoo-doo voo-doo. Jerry baker has been around for eons and has been so thoroughly debunked and exposed so many times that he is a joke, the laughing stock of the experienced gardening community. Do some research on him. His so-called "testamonies" have repeatedly been proven to be falsified.

And the really sad thing is that all this junk of his gets perpetrated instead of being ignored as it should be. It gets spread around and only suckers in those new to gardening and the uninformed while making him lots of money. So he laughs all the way to the bank.

The reason people look to the past is because they farmed in the past without insecticides. How did they get by without all those chemicals, had wonderful gardens, so some of these have to work

No, you are assuming that people gardened in the past as many do today. They didn't. Their expectations were realistic unlike those of many today. They didn't expect much less demand the perfect bug-free garden with perfect appearing plants producing perfect showcase fruits with no blemishes. All they wanted was food for their family and they worked within the limits of nature to produce it.

So no they didn't need insecticides - just as those of us with realistic expectations don't need them today either. But they sure didn't bury eggs in their cucumbers or spread Vicks on their squash plants either. Just ask any old gardener when was the last time he wasted good buttermilk mixing it with soot from the chimney or wasted good oatmeal by throwing it in his planting holes. He'd get a good laugh out of it and tell you he'd rather eat his oatmeal and drink his buttermilk.

Dave

I think another attraction for this kind of olde time hocus pocus is the hope of finding some secret that will make it all effortless - a quick, cheap fix that will somehow save the trouble of actually understanding what's going on in the garden.

I've tried some of the home remedies, in different variations, and they only had a slight fix. It rained, too lazy to keep reapplying and it didn't work that good anyways. If you do more labor in your garden putting on insecticides, you might have a crop, but it's not worth it. There's got to be a better way.

There is a better way, and it doesn't require pesticides or enormous amounts of labour, but it does require some initial effort to understand the biology of how plants grow, how different types of fertilisers work and so on, and it requires the gardener to pay attention to what's happening in the garden.

If you understand how a system works you'll know what's important, what can be skimped-on if you're short of time, and you can find solutions to problems without having to run wildly in all directions or waste effort on things that don't have a chance of working.

Seriously, if your cucumbers are heat-stressed, a boiled egg isn't likely to fix it. Why not do something that might help  shade cloth over some cheap wire hoops the next time a heat wave is forecast or something.

I know, it's your egg and you can do what you like with itÂit just saddens me to see people being so gullible and uncritical, especially where there are people on this board with so much useful experience.

How did they get by without all those chemicals, had wonderful gardens, so some of these have to work.

They didn't get by without chemicals, because the whole universe is made up of chemicals. The air we breathe, the vegetables we grow and eat, the manure decomposing on our compost heap, the certified organic treatments we use in the garden. All made of chemicals.

Scarlet, I empathize, with your idea that all of old is not necessarily wrong, but, consider this, and i will use the eggs as the example, I even remember that doing the rounds in the 70's and even saw it it homes and gardens, or better homes can't really remember, last year, but we where on short week rationing of food in the UK and I do remember, a discussion, between my Pop and Dad on the subject, and their laughing at it, as how could a small holder, small farmer or cottage gardener afford to loose the eggs. their conclusion was that maybe if you missed an egg and it was rank, it was thrown in the compost, or maybe straight into the ground, but the pair of them agreed, father and son, you would not waste protein on veg, Grandad was born 1906, Dad 1935, I am 40, I can't help but agree, many times on these board's I see the wisdom of my Grandad (Pop) intensive gardening he had 3 foot beds never to be stood on, he intensive gardened, I think he did buy into the poisons, I remember the canisters not to touch?? but maybe fertilizer I have no idea? so he wasn't perfect, he was trying to feed us, but they didn't know better then on that score, so I am with Digdirt, this is 21st century voodoo. Okay digdirt didn't say that :) but you can been organic without resorting to some sort of get the money rolling in merchant, this person maybe.
observe, I have succeeded where others failed, like last year my toms...wow! no late blight i seemed to be in the eye of the hurricane on that one but I had a great harvest and was eating Toms up to Thankgiving... most other things... forget it! rubbish!
This year I have had a cathartic ripping up of part's of the garden as due to DH's job coming to an end we have to leave, but I have successes Beans, peas, cabbages, and my Toms, again! and I have done nothing more than watered, weeded and added compost..I lie to the toms and peppers I have used some sort of organic mix, blowed if I can remember the name? but I only used it on planting.
PS I do but my egg Shells in the compost as well as fish bones, and my own special offerings occationally (urine), I have not resorted to the blood watering can my Pop had, whereas a child all bloody limbs where dunked... but I have been tempted... 2 boys aged 5, lots of bloody knees and elbows :)

Victorian methods of gardening were similar to organic and even most gardens were composted with no manure.

http://publicgardens.suite101.com/article.cfm/sudeley_s_victorian_kitchen_garden

The did use cyanide and strychnine, so I'll go back even further to show how before chemicals, they kept gardens alive and well through organic measures.

http://southeastfarmpress.com/grains/organic-farming-1110/

The article above says they planted a later crop to avoid certain types of bugs, they used companion planting and green manure crops, to avoid chemicals. This method was used in pioneering days in the 1700s. Not sure if that truly is pioneering days, we have been here for at least the mid to late 1500s.

http://www.haltonhelps.com/Egardening/Pesticides1.htm

And part 2:

http://www.haltonhelps.com/Egardening/Pesticides2.htm

"More consistent results were obtained by observant gardeners who recognized the connections between cultivation practices and garden health. It became evident that the siting of gardens, the preparation of soil (from the improvement of drainage to the use of various fertilizers), and such things as the rotation of crops were critically important. Two millennium ago, the Greeks and Romans recognized the importance of companion planting and the benefits of intercropping (mixed plantings) to reduce pest populations. These scientific gardeners also began to observe that certain plants and minerals were effective pest deterrents. These were the early botanical and chemical pesticides."

This article doesn't defend organic or encourage, but is about the beginnings of pesticides. With proven research, there were successes, although no one has practiced it, accept some on this board and many others, but for the most part, those who use it, don't wait around for the true answer. It could work or fail for any specific reason. Tried and true is what everyone needs to know.

I don't see why you would complain at anyone trying organic repellents out. You haven't prooved they work or don't work. All that fail usually aren't in the right mode at the right time, like marigolds that bloom in July, so how can the marigold chase away bugs for being aramatic, when they don't bloom yet. Of course you will see they fail unless you trick your marigolds into full sunlight by May 15th.

There are reasons they do and do not fail, not many know when or why. It's still better than cancer.

I was looking at gardening books in a used bookstore one winter day and the owner came by and said that I should look at his most requested gardening author, which he said was Jerry Baker. I had never heard of Jerry Baker, but since the books were only $6 each, I picked up a couple. I couldn't believe the nonsense when I got home and started reading from them. They weren't even worth what I paid. LOL

"I don't see why you would complain at anyone trying organic repellents out."

No one's complaining about that. They/we are saying quackery is quackery.

You also seem to equate everything back to chemicals and cancer. We're trying to talk about bad advice and nonsense.

A lot of these things are tried out. A lot of research is done. Pest tracking is nothing new...we actually test and report all of this overlaid on maps as forecasts now. We can see movements of pests moving south-to-north and know when to time preventative applications of pesticides (organic or otherwise). The research community consists of more than just a bunch of evil people making chemicals.

Good sounding old timey quackery is still quackery.

As a horticulture researcher with a degree I think I'm a little qualified to call a lot of this quackery. I even gave some reasons in a list above.

It doesn't matter to me. I'm just trying to save some money and time for people who may read this and want to help their garden in more direct ways.

I'm also not speaking of "failures of organic" something-or-other. My garden is organic. I have no idea where you came to many of your conclusions you're being attacked. We're attacking the idiot who wrote that book and reference list of bull and maybe saving some people some time/money who might not be interested in quackery.

Scarlet, you are taking on my mantle for being bad tempered :) I thought the thread was truly interesting, I know that, you think you are being attacked, but no the writer of this book is, I had never heard of the man, but in my limited life span, have learned that all that glitters...
there are a lot of organic ways to keep you garden good, and I am trying too, keep with that, but as a kid brought up on mostly, I suppose you would say organic?? although I will admit I have no idea? just veg from the garden and as a adult farm food, as did my Mum and Dad, as children and adults pre Monsanto, I had to have IVF and my Mum died of Cancer, but such is life and death, and I was glad for the technology that created my children's lives and sad that that technology wasn't advanced enough for my Mum.
My Dad and Pop would bring in huge piles of Manure every fall, and rot it down it was hellish for a while with the horse flies, but it works, blood and bone works, when I go back to the UK, I am finding me a Halal or Kosher Butcher, so I can get blood.
If I were you, I would try the Library, if this chap is as popular as he seems to be, I expect they will have a copy about, try them out, some will just by the law of averages work out, as I agree that in modern times maybe an egg is a cheap viable option for some fertisation, but in the past, no, I remember a Roast Chicken as the height of excitement as it was so expensive, I only ever got it at my rich Gran and Grandad's house, never at home or the other Grandparent's.
My fear would be that animals would smell it and dig up my patch? Heck they can smell my newly planted peas :)

Jerry Baker books

http://www.jerrybaker.net/garden/GardeningBooks.aspx

personally I think Garden Web is much better than these books.

Here is a link that might be useful: books

Can't we all just get along??????
Scarlet, why don't you go to freecycle, craigslist, the libraray or amazon and buy the book, try some of the experiments and report back to us with a title of "Baker trial-cukes/eggs" or some sort.
Those that don't like the Baker guy just let her spend her $ on her experiments if she wants to after all these arguments!
I got the same mailer, and have heard of some of the concoctions other than from his writings, but haven't tried them. They aren't ALL snake oil!
Why don't we just let this thread go away! We are all mellow gardeners after all.
Peace and gardening! Nancy

"Those that don't like the Baker guy just let her spend her $ on her experiments if she wants to after all these arguments!"

That's the thing, no one's trying to suspend her rights or tell her to do something.

There's just different flavors of people calling a quack a quack. No one's trying to force anything on anyone or be "abusive." Meh...

Sooo ....

I'm thinking about grinding up chicken bones in my dying coffee grinder :)

I'm doing it just to annoy my friend who thinks I'm going "too green." ... and, my coffee grinder is dying, and I need a new one, so I figure I'd kill two birds (HA!) with one stone and get some bonemeal out of two things I'd normally throw away ... chicken bones, and a dying coffee grinder :)

This is a very touchy feel-good story that may get people in a better mood. It's about a couple who tries to be "trash free" for a year. (This same friend who thinks I'm a hippie gardener sent it to me ... see, we change the world one random act of kindness at a time :) )

http://news.yahoo.com/video/portlandorkgw-15751112/couple-s-experiment-trash-free-for-a-year-20840219

Also, my burrough here outside of pittsburgh doesn't allow "poultry" .... are they considered poultry if I call them "pets"? Just something to think about.

Also also ... the rotting egg, garlic, dish soap, milk, hot pepper thing has worked wonders for me with deer ... who last year made salad out of my hostas ... and this year (fingers crossed) haven't touched my hostas or my garden ... apparently, the slugs haven't gotten the message :[ ...

Peace!

-v

Here is a link that might be useful: trash free!

"the rotting egg, garlic, dish soap, milk, hot pepper thing has worked wonders for me with deer"

I'm sure it did. You can skip the egg and milk, though. There's a bunch of great home methods for deer. My favorite is placing dirty human diapers out on the garden perimeter at evening and picking them up in the morning. It works, so does a lot of things.

No one is calling it across the board b/s unlike someone is claiming we're doing. There's points made by myself and others on what the techniques are trying to do.

This author in question isn't some "new guy on the block"...he makes money off of people who want an emotional connection to their gardens and some "old timey" feeling that their dead relatives did things the right way and enjoyed bountiful harvests of perfect produce.

Just reading this thread you can tell there's been more than a few people who are experienced with this guy and his type.

A distrust of science and technology doesn't mean you should settle for horrible organic methods when there's better organic methods out there.

My garden is organic and just fine because it's small enough for me to manage and I'm out there doing the work to keep it from becoming unproductive. My soil is healthy, my water is right, my nutrients and nutrient availability is in check, and most importantly I'm actually out there in it enough to weed what my mulch doesn't suppress and hand-pick bugs that are bad news.

Actually, since I use home-made ant control with powdered sugar and Borax on postercard occasionally I don't know if that's technically "organic" (I don't mean certified), but whatever. I'm not spending $3+ on pre-made ant baits.

Anyway...yeah...meh.

OOOOOKKKK .... Thanks for validating my deer repellent experience :) and saying "I'm sure lots of things work" ... In MY experience ... this did, so I thought I would share :)

I think perhaps a more productive way of addressing this whole topic could have been, "I appreciate your excitement of finding old fashioned ways that worked for our grandparents in gardening, and I'm sure some of them worked great, but a lot of valid research has been done since then and is worth investigating," instead of the aggressive, "This guy is a quack and preys on the ignorance of new gardeners," resulting in the reactive, "You all suck and I'm ignoring you."

It's not rocket science psychology that's going on here.

Just be nice ... and validating ... and supportive.

If the price of an egg makes her plant grow and that makes her happy, and it's the calcium from the shell and the nitrogen from the decaying protein, etc etc etc, who are we to rain on her happy?

We're not talking industrial farming here ... it's a back yard garden. You can say the same thing with kindness and get a lot more accomplished, ya know?

:)

-v

Everyone gets pissy at times. Chalk it up to a bad day and don't take anything personal. When people offend you, say so, politely, and move on. If they don't apologize or accept that what they said could have been offensive, ignore them and move on.

Life is too short, and there are too many cool things to grow :D

I have been grateful for the advice and experience of seasoned growers on this whole site, and so many threads are hilarious and cheerful I've enjoyed reading them years after they've been posted. "So you want to grow a gardenia", etc etc etc. Classics, and I've just started this.

Happy gardening. I'm going back to read about how to make homemade cheese. (doesn't that sound cool?)

-v

yes I agree, cheese :) yum :)
but scarlet has been getting more and more abstract and yet paranoid , as someone who is coming out of mental illness, I can see it.. fortunately, for me I have a type of illness that I have insight, so even thought I am an arse I can see it and then unfortunately have to live with with it, every time I write! so oh! this is so hard to explain but at the time in your head it is true, but for me, my head was arguing, back, it was so confusing? I use to write on this forum and then next day wake up in a cold sweat, realizing I had been a arse!

Weeds take nutrients from your plants and transmit disease and pests. Some of your plants could make better use of partial shade than weeds. Calling people criminal, loonies and stalkers is not my idea of sanity or being happy or grown up.

I guess you missed the question, have you tried smashing the bones with a hammer instead of baking them? Please be on topic. You will be reminded constantly to be on topic.

Dry the bones as much as possible (or marrow boiled out in stock/soup then dried)...wrap in a non-fuzzy cloth that won't rip...hammer like hell...spill contents into storage. Try to get the pieces smaller than 1/2 dime...even smaller if possible. Large pieces don't break down well or become attractive to animals (especially dogs).

Eye protection should be mandatory and you might want to throw a paper mask on, too. You want to crush it all as finely as possible. It could take 1+ season for the available calcium to work it's way into the soil. Your soil pH and watering regiment will determine how of this calcium is available.

I feel much nicer about giving a cucumber plant some N fertilizer produced directly from some fossil fuels, than an egg taken from a chicken that was fed a diet of corn fertilized with some N fertilizer produced from some fossil fuels. Unless the egg came from a chicken fed weeds and bugs that fed on weeds growing on land not suited for anything else. And then I'd eat the egg anyway.

on topic, I have found that you can grow amazing cabbages, in the middle of your bean wigwam, they are awesome, due to the nitrogen, just need to water more often as the leaves defect the rain water.
IVF,Cancer and Mental illness...you treated them so kindly, gave me a nice warm feel inside, you really do care.

Hi Scarlet
Have you thought about posting over on the Organic Gardening forum?
jim_6b

I remember many years ago watching one of PBS's fund raisers featuring about 4 hours of JB. I was a new gardener at the time so I watched. Now I must say I don't know if his tonics work. I've never tried or done any reasearch on them so I can't really comment on that subject. However, one thing I do remember is that some of his bug tonics didn't target one specific bug but all bugs. Now keep in mind this was 8 or 10 years ago when I saw this and my memory is not what it use to be so correct me if I'm wrong. No offense will be taken. The problem I always had with JB was that it seemed liked he thinks all bugs are bad and I know for a fact that's not true.
jim_6b