I also saw that in the Hidden Springs nursery. Apparently, TN has banned the sale or cultivation of autumn olive. It's a shame. I can understand in principle the theory, but in practice, does this do ANYTHING. IMO, at best, it is only delaying the inevitable, since the plant is very well established already in many places and spreads easily. Here in Michigan, our brilliant legislators banned Purple Loosestrife back in the 1990's. It is a highly invasive plant that takes over aquatic ecosystems. BUT, the thing was, they banned its sale and cultivation AFTER the plant was already growing wall to wall across the state. The ban has done NOTHING of practical value -- there is just as much of it here as there ever was. But, it did force perennial growers like Walter's Gardens (a big wholesale grower) to throw out their cultivated varieties, most of which are self-sterile anyway.

Just to add my two cents, since this thread has been revived... M.hat, I'm guessing the reason that you've seen these things looking tame and docile is because they're growing in a prairie, and not actually getting their preferred level of water. I believe they reach menace status when they are introduced to a waterway. I have no idea whether or not this tree is banned here or not, and it seems more invasive on the Western slope, but I wouldn't ever plant one as they are so messy. Always dropping little branches, or pieces of bark; in the spring it produces drifts of pollen and then the "olives"! Little hard, crunchy things strewn everywhere for most of the summer/fall. I also agree that the scent is wonderful, from a distance! I think having them lining my property would be extremely overpowering, and allergy producing! So Storey, I think you made the right choice even esthetically. Also, if you've got kids, these are no fun to climb! Nasty thorns everywhere! Lara

Winterberry will grow here - zone 7 - and fruits well. I would imagine it would do even better in zone 5, but will bow to the experience of someone from that area. Just remember you will need both male and female plants to get any berries. One male will do for every 5-6 female plants, as I recall. Have you given thought also to the shrubby, fruiting plants - blueberries, high bush cranberries, raspberries (although they will probably come in as you stop mowing), native roses,spice bush, etc. as well as trees such as wild cherries, other conifers for pine cones, native plums, etc.? As well, any wild flowers, other than the Rudbeckia, native to your area would be good, although putting in plants rather than sowing seed would probably give a better success rate. If your county or state has a Forestry Department, can you get young trees from them? Usually, they have bare root trees for sale, which are fairly small, but also VERY inexpensive. I know here, for a slightly higher price, you can get trees already in "cases", round sections of "pipe", which will protect from deer and rabbits for a few years, and also provide a sheltered environment from wind, etc.. Studies have been done which show trees with "shelters/cases" grow much faster, have a greater survival rate, and are generally healthier than trees planted "naked". The cases that I know of were a slightly startling blue color, but the trees seem to have done quite well. (Since they were visible from the road in several places, rumors of "pod people" in the woods spread around the community!) I don't know if someone would have to go in after several years and remove the shelters or if there are now biodegradable ones that break down after several years' exposure. The last would be the best, if it exists, which I THINK it does, but I also think it may be the blue ones. I congratulate you on being willing to give up a tree that you wanted, and substitue a "better" one - many people would not have been able to do so. Good luck with your project and with your surgery!

Well. thanks everyone! A fascinating lot of information. Jerijen: Actually, I made the decision to have a couple of Teas for other reasons, and the Autumn color question I posted was just out of curiosity, triggered by the Little Wonder show that my poor orphan Dr. Huey put on. Now that I've read all the responses to my query, and seen the gorgeous pictures, I'm thinking how great it would be to have something that would do that in the Fall...I'd love to have a sort of roses-run-wild looking garden, but it's not in the cards. There IS a half-barrel in the front garden, and it makes me think of Anita's suggestion about R. cinnamomea - but we are planning to move up to Sacramento sometime this year (if the Housing Market Gods are willing), and I wouldn't be able to take it with me. Whereas, a couple of pots with small Teas in them is do-able (especially because I'll be getting them in bands this Spring, so they will be very small, from what I've seen). And thanks to all who helped me with info on Mme. Antoine Mari and Devoniensis - now I KNOW I want them!