I think the flavor tends to be more concentrated in the flat peaches. Or maybe they are just breeding better ones. Galaxy isn't particularly great, but all the other ones I have tried are some of the most flavorful peaches out there. They are also fun to eat. The flesh is a bit more stringy in some cases however.

Unfortunately for me most of them are too prone to rot, but if you don't have rot problems or are willing to do a full spray program for it I would go for it. I have a couple of the new NJ ones and should get some fruit off them this year. Their program has been good about breeding for disease resistance so I am somewhat hopeful.

Scott

Scott:

Thanks for the input. Which NJ selections are you trying? Have you been impressed with the NJ fruits you've tried so far? I'm trying the Early Blush and Orangered apricots from NJ. I'm trying to get together an order from Adam's County.

Like Scott, I should get to sample a few of NJ 16 (whatever they're marketing that as) this year. The Rutgers program is great for those of us in the northeast, mid-atlantic and probably other humid regions.

With your extreme emphasis on high brix you might be happier with the Zaiger products. They seem to shoot for the moon on brix.

Funny, I just read an article about taste tests done on peaches and brix for most people didn't seem to need to be off the charts to get the highest rating. A certain amount of sweetness was necessary but the brix didn't have to be that high, it was just as much about the balance of acid and sugar.

I forget the brix level required to be in the "excellent" category but I think it was as low as 14. I know that you like some acid in the brew as well but I wonder if you don't have a bit of a sweet tooth.

The only peento peach I've tried is Saturn, and it's a pleasing peach if you can keep it from rotting and stand to thin it. It's small enough, even when well thinned, and sets a billion peaches.

Right harvestman thats another minus on the flat peaches, the degree of thinning needed.

I thought I had two of the NJ ones but I must have cancelled one, I only have NJF 16 aka Tangos in my orchard and it was new last year. From reading the descriptions it sounds like the best all-around one; NJF 18 is the early one, NJF 15 is the red one, and NJF 17 sounds as good as NJF 16 but harder to grow. Looking at the longer description, NJF17 has a problem of getting soft brown spots on it, that may be what they mean by harder to grow. I also had a spotting problem on my Galaxy that was not brown rot, maybe its the same issue.

Scott

Thanks guys, that helps a lot! I guess I'll let you Easterners try the NJ flat peaches and I'll try that nectarine at some point.

Yes I do have a sweet tooth. But when I share with friends nearly all like sweeter. A 14 brix peach isn't bad but it's not very good either. A sheet I have says the USA ave brix for peaches is 11.8 and anything above 17.3 is considered excellent. But I'm not sure if that 17.3 is the point at which consumers say it's excellent or the point at which the trade says we'll call that excellent. I am sure that 11.8 is blah. An 11.8 with acid is sour and without is insipid mush.

For me most fruits are very good at around 19 brix but 22-24 is even better. Above that things can get too sweet if the flavor isn't there.

Scott, the one shown in the link above is the NJF16. It has an interesting yellow color. I'll look forward to your report.

Our local peach expert gave a talk about backyard growing and he showed us the number one reason to grow the flattened versions - to pit them he simply pushed his thumb through the center and the pit was pushed out without much effort. That's not all that important to me, but to others....

I'd like to container grow one.

Last summer, I dialogged with a Georgia peach grower who had some opinions about these Rutgers donuts.

He really liked them and persuaded me to try some.

Be aware NJF 15, 16, and 18 are yellow donuts. 17 is a white.

He said 17 is the hardest to grow because of scab. Under a full commercial spray, he still had trouble w/ scab on 17. I'll also note the patent on the 17 lists skin cracking high in some years. It also mentions a problem w/ split pits. I talked w/ some Adams County folks about it, and they acknowledged it was one of the harder ones to grow, but said the flavor was worth it. Might be just what you are looking for in your greenhouse Fruitnut. The brix is the highest of all the NJ peentos at 14.8%

He mentioned all the peentos as a rule have great flavor, which he attributed to distortion of the fruit. In his words, "I don't know if you've ever noticed but catfaced peaches that are disfigured by plant bugs are always very firm and sweet. That's the way these are; they're all naturally contorted and it seems to make them firm and sweet."

I was also impressed by his packout, claiming that the largest fruit of 15 & 18 packout at 3.5 to 4", w/ the very largest packing at 4.5". That's the size of a small plate!

I've ordered 15, 16, and 18, but passed on 17 for the time being. I also have Flat Wonderful which should fruit this year. I have high hopes for it, as it was one of Don Yellman's favorites.

I've had Saturn from the store and it was one of the best store bought I've eaten. Each peach was individually wrapped and very expensive. I've decided not to grow Saturn though, because some of these NJ peaches are supposed to be better. They better be darn good, the patent fees are $4.50 a pop. Highest I've ever seen.

Trianglejohn wrote:
"to pit them he simply pushed his thumb through the center and the pit was pushed out without much effort"

This is precisely the reason they are called donuts, as they resemble them.

olpea:

If your Georgia friend likes them because they are 3.5 to 4.5 inches, I'm not impressed. That only tells me his brix is probably 12 and he's watering too much. That's typical store bought quality: big, beautiful, and tasteless.

So NJF 17 is the highest brix at 14.8. I assume that's from the patent application. On the pluot my brix starts at the patent numbers and usually runs 3-4 points higher. Maybe I could get NJF17 up to 18 and it would probably be very good.

I do appreciate the info on the NJ lines. I might try 17. Scab isn't an issue but cracking and split pits might be. Probably if it sets fruit I'm good to go.

I looked for Flat Wonderful and only found prices of $40 and up.

If your Georgia friend likes them because they are 3.5 to 4.5 inches, I'm not impressed.

No. That was just a bonus. He also has his own farm market where he sells fresh. He conveyed to me the donuts tasted better than his other peaches.

Don't knock a fruit just because it's big. Some of these new peaches are just naturally huge. I had some very large Coralstars and Autumnstars last summer that were some of the best peaches in my orchard. Similarly I've grown a peach called White County for several years that's as big as a softball, and so sweet I can't stand to eat it. Customers couldn't get enough of them though last summer.

Older smaller cultivars don't always taste the best. Dave Wilson has demonstrated that.

I figured out how to access the plant patents on the four NJF lines and here's what I found for average fruit weight and brix and the same patent data for my four newest pluot varieties:

NJF15.......... 126g 13.3 brix
NJF16.......... 107g 10.9 brix
NJF17.......... 131g 14.8 brix
NJF18.......... 169g 12.3 brix
Flavor Royale.. 154g 17.7 brix
Crimson Royale. 185g 22.8 brix
Honey Punch.... 165g 18.8 brix
Ruby Kat....... 205g 18.6 brix

The pluot are as big or bigger and much higher brix than the flat peaches. I'm surprised about the size but not the sugar.

My pluot are big, but bigger than a peach?

Sorry I didn't see your post prior to my last. I'm not knocking big fruit. See my post above. But people get hung up on growing their fruit as large as possible. If a grower is pushing his fruit to get as much size as possible it's my considered opinion that the eating quality, namely the brix is going to suffer.

You said your customers couldn't get enough of the sweet fruit. Sometimes I feel like I almost have to apoligize for liking sweet fruit when in fact that's what most people want.

Fruit-

You can't expect much from store bought fruit. The best you can hope is that its not all dried out and chewy, like the UFO peaches I bought from Super Target late last summer. They were beyond horrible and expensive. The squirrels wouldn't eat them. I took back a watermelon one year because it was expensive and smelled like a stinky carp when I cut it open... Give me a canned good if you're going to be selling garbage, dried/frozen is fine too.

These peento peaches aren't sold through too many nurseries. I noticed Raintree has a few, Starks has at least one variety, Gurneys has one, and ACN has a few...

Thanks Frank and olpea. It's not about me or my taste in fruit. It's all that lousy fruit sold in stores. And it's no wonder the ave peach sold in the US is 11.8 brix when NJ wants a $4.50 royalty for a 10.9 brix peach. Thanks but I'll stick with my pluot.

That 10.9 has me worried, while not all fruit needs a high brix that seems too low. That brix data is just to get the patent through so it may not have been optimal harvest time.

Scott

brix srix when I hand a peach to a friend and they say " please order one of those trees for me " I start with soil ph and end with pollinator. there is no exception to a fruit that drops in your hand at a touch and the juice runs down your chin so you lean forward to keep it off your shirt.

Scott:

A 14 brix is just about the point that a low acid peach becomes decent. I don't give them away lower than that. For a normal acid peach 14 is sour to my taste and 16 is decent. But I know everyone's taste varies.

Hopefully the NJF16 will be a lot above 10.9. The pluot brix estimates are pretty conservative compared to my experience.

From now on I'm looking up the patent on everything I buy. If one is available. The patent descriptions I've seen have become a lot more detailed in the last 15 years and are pretty interesting reading..

If the tree is tested in the west coast the brix will almost always be higher. I wouldn't put too much stock in the patent info if you don't know where the tested fruit was grown and what year, for that matter. Anything tested in the west coast last year was probably exceptionally low.

I don't think peaches get much above 14 here although I never test them myself but based on the above mentioned article.

Fruitnut, as Hman alluded I don't think you can hold a peach to the same brix standard as a pluot.

I do agree that 10.9 seems on the lower end, even for a peach, but I wonder if there is some room for interpretation in published brix numbers.

Take the peach PF7a for example. Paul Friday claims the peach tests at 14 brix (which is pretty high for a peach). However, I grow that peach and there's no way I would rank it as one of my sweetest varieties.

"For profit" breeders like Friday and Zaiger are very strong promoters of their products. Sometimes I wonder if they don't sample the best of their fruits for brix, instead of sampling all and calculating an average. On the other hand, I think a place like Rutgers would be more objective in developing an average brix for a cultivar. Its the nature of scientists working at a university to be more objective vs. promoters trying to market their inventions.

Olpea:

I hear what you are saying. I'd bet DWN and Friday have reams of brix data that aren't listed on their patent info or on their website.

There is a lot of variability in brix due to many factors. Some varieties at some times just throw some clinkers. Almost any fruit even from one tree will vary by 4-5 points. Sometimes it's 10 points or more. As a home grower I can chuck the clinkers and eat the good ones. A commercial grower can't do that.

Just an addendum here. Last night I was at a meeting and talked to a peach grower (20 acres peaches). I've had his peaches, and while I wouldn't consider them exceptional, they're not bad.

He indicated 14 brix is generally tops for a peach in his orchard. Last season he had his first crop of Saturns which tested at 17 brix.

He also harvested his first NJF16 and NJF17. Didn't test the brix, but indicated they're similar to clingstones in texture, sort of rubbery. I hear this a lot. He also said they taste a little different than a normal peach, and because of that didn't know how well they'd be received in our area.

He did indicate the Saturn peaches flew off the shelves.

olpea:

Thanks for the update. Rubbery doesn't sound good at all. Glad I asked before placing an order for any NJF lines.

No wonder I only grow two peaches if they top out at anywhere near 14 brix. This has been my general experience over the years. Peaches just aren't very sweet for me but I do think I can top 14 brix pretty easily.

We need more reporting of brix on this forum. Because it's apparent the nurseries aren't willing to step up to the plate. They still want to promote everything as amazingly sweet and such crap.

FN, if I had the ability to control my environment as you do or even if I lived in the dry west, I'd probably take a more clinical approach to brix levels. I am grateful to you for your observations as what I've learned from you will certainly affect my fruit thinning methods next season. I used to actually favor the more hidden peaches to keep them from bird view!

When peaches are described as "rubbery" I think you'd be misled to interpret it as the common definition in describing food. I think it's about the texture being more firm but not where it's difficult to chew. The Adam's people wouldn't be embracing these clones if they didn't enjoy eating them.

The problem with the whole schtick of connesseurship is that the further you go to get the greatest tasting stuff the more your standards of what is enjoyable go up. People used to choke on dust and often face starvation for the 3 months it took to travel across the country- now they complain about the airline food!

Anyway, this is what I tell myself when I start to get jealous of your amazing ultra-sweet pluots.

I wouldn't put a whole lot on that rubbery comment -- all of the donut peaches when harvested too early are rubbery. My guess is he has an earlier harvest constraint for shipping to markets, so he sees more of that rubbery phase. The different texture is due to how the peach growth is distorted; even when ripe they have a different texture than a regular peach.

Scott

"I wouldn't put a whole lot on that rubbery comment -- all of the donut peaches when harvested too early are rubbery."

He does harvest earlier than a typical backyard orchardist. However, Don Yellman has described Flat Wonderful with the exact terminology (i.e. rubbery). I doubt Don picked them early.

I've also read descriptions from others indicating an unusual texture for some of the flat peaches. Whatever term used to describe these peentos, I don't think it's meant in a pejorative way.

Hmm, how did I miss this thread?? In my original purchase for my walk & pick orchard, I bought one flat peach, a Sweet Bagel based on several good reports from folks in my area despite its higher chill hour requirement. I got to thinking that I liked this idea of a flat peach that you could just push the pit out, so I bought a Stark Donut peach, too, since it has lower chill hour requirements. And tonight, I was checking our Raintree's sale, and found they had a Sauzee King nectarine, which is pushing it for me at 500ch, but figured for twelve bucks, worth the try. So, I've got 2 flat peaches and a flat nectarine to try out. Will be very interested to see everyone's reporting back. Hope mine do well enough in my little "cold spot" of my yard. It's nice to have just enough room to try a little of everything, especially these interesting stone fruits.

Patty S.

Patty,

I have the Donut peach and it is excellent for me in Ventura County, I want to try out Sweet Bagel or Sauzee King next.

Good to know, rasputinj! I'm looking forward to these flat peaches and nectarines. Hoping others in our area have also had success with the higher hour peento varieties. Let me know if you end up with a Sweet Bagel or Sauzee, and how they do for you. Several folks in my area of N. San Diego county near the ocean has said the Sweet Bagel has performed well for them, so I took the rist on the Sauzee. Hopefully it will arrive next week so I can get it in the ground right away.

Patty S.