Studies in primocane fruiting blackberries and raspberries have shown that while this sounds like a really good idea, it actually doesn't happen. The primocane (fall) crop is the same size regardless of whether the floricane (spring) crop is there or not. This is because raspberries and blackberries store huge amounts of carbohydrates in their root systems, and are therefore never limited.

Large-scale growers prefer to only have the primocane crop because the management is much easier, and pathogens that are overwintering on the dormant canes are completely removed from the field.

Honestly, if I wanted berries in the spring and the fall, I'd plant one floricane fruiting variety and one primocane fruiting variety, because a good floricane fruiting variety will give a better spring crop.

Fruitgirl,

I am a little confused to pruning these as well. I just plant Taylor and Amity. Taylor(summer) and Amity(everbearing). Is it possible to prune them both the same way and get fruit?

Thanks!

Fruitgirl,

Yes, if I have this straight, at the end of the season remove all canes that fruited and leave new canes that didn't fruit.

Then you'll get a fall crop on the everbearing (Amity) and an early crop on the Taylor.

You'll be forgoing the small early crop on the Amity because you will have pruned out the primocane that fruited at its tip the previous season.

Let's do a quick review on the raspberry (and blackberry) growth.

The crown and root system of rasbperries are perennial. The canes are biennial. The canes that emerge from the ground in the spring and grow are called primocanes. Fruit will develop on the primocanes of some varieties. These are called primocane fruiting varieties (other terms are fall-fruiting or everbearing, but primocane fruiting is the most correct). The canes that have overwintered are called floricanes. All varieties will fruit on the floricanes. Those that only fruit on floricanes are called floricane-fruiting varieties (another term is summer fruiting).

Primocane varieties (like Amity) can fruit on both the primocanes and floricanes. The floricans will flower and fruit first, and will die after fruiting. The primocanes will flower and fruit second, but don't fruit down the entire length of the canes. The portion of the cane that fruited will die. If you allow the primocane to overwinter, the portion that did not flower and fruit the previous year will do so in the spring.

Floricane fruiting varieties like Taylor will only produce one crop per year no matter what.

Unless you REALLY want two crops per year on the Amity, here's how you should prune them:
--Amity: Simply cut off all of the canes at ground level.
--Taylor: Cut out all of the canes that are dead (spent floricanes) and thin out weak/small canes that are alive (overwintering primocanes).

If you want two crops per year on the Amity, prune them like you would the Taylors, except you should also cut off the portion of the primocane that fruited in the fall.

Thank you very much! This is my first year with these so all of this is very helpful.

So..With Amity I should get fruit this year. Taylor I have to wait until next year.

If I pruned Taylor like Amity ... I would never get fruit from Taylor. Is that correct?

Thanks Again.

Thank you, Fruitgirl. I might have done as you suggested but now I have the patch, and don't have the resources to start again with different one crop varieties. Space, energy, money, etc. So I must do the best with my existing patch. I am interested to hear you say that the advice to cut back the floricanes totally doesn't really pay off in increased or earlier production. That advice is widespread from the nursery I bought from (Miller's) and other books on backyard fruit growing. I truly hate to lose those 3 weeks of production in July.

Villandry,

It depends on how you prune the Amity as to whether the same method will work for Taylor.

If you cut off all of the canes to the ground each season then you are correct, the Taylor will never fruit.

But you asked earlier if you could "prune them both the same way and get fruit?" and that is the question I tried to answer.

Yes, you can prune them both the same way. But that way is not universally to cut all the canes to the ground. It is to cut to the ground any cane that fruited that season but to spare any cane that did not. (note: this means you would prune off all of the Amity canes to the ground because they fruit on first year canes)

You can apply that rule to either type of raspberry and get one crop a year. On the Amity that crop would be in the fall on new shoots that came from the roots and on Taylor that crop would be in the summer on canes that you spared the previous season because they hadn't fruited.

Murky,

Thank you very much. I am cutting and pasting this into my journal right now!

I am eager to see how well Taylor(I have read so many great things about it) does around here. Amity on the other hand is widely planted.

Villandry,

In the interest of disclosure my raspberry growing experience began last spring and all of my varieties are primocane like Amity.

I elected to just cut off the tops of my Amity and others after they had fruited so that I will get some early berries this year in addition to the Fall crop.

I haven't gotten to the point where I need to thin any out to reduce crowding. I have a small patch. Its in a raised cinder block bed that is 8' long x 2' wide x 16" deep.

I have Amity, Indian Summer, Autumn Bliss and Summit. I'll figure out which I like and then decide what to keep and/or move.

Sorry to change subject here.. I'm not familiar with either of these varieties of raspberries. I am looking at raspberries from Fedco and Burnt Ridge. Are there better places mailorder to get raspberries? I'd like a heavy fruiting thornless, if flavor isn't adversely affected.

zengeos, not only did you change the subject, this thread is over a year old. Next time just start a new topic. Both of those places you mention are good nurseries. Nourse is my source for raspberries, they focus on small fruits and nothing else, and they really do them right.

Scott

Sorry Scott, didn't even notice the dates.

Now that the thread has been resurrected, I have a relevant question.
One of the posts by Fruitgirl says: "The floricans will flower and fruit first, and will die after fruiting. The primocanes will flower and fruit second, but don't fruit down the entire length of the canes. The portion of the cane that fruited will die."
I have ten potted raspberry plants in 5 gallon pots (in Zone 5) and I always have hard time in fall to identify which cans fruited so that I can prune away those cans. If by "dead" in the mentioned post means no leaves sprouting in the spring then it makes pruning a lot easier in the spring because the dead (or near dead) ones will have no leaves or will have sick leaves for identification. All I have to do is to remove the dead or dying cans in the spring. Am I correct or it is not that simple?

Forgive me for being thick (and keeping in mind I have not grown raspberries before): How do you know, after the fruiting, WHICH canes have fruited in order to cut those that HAVE fruited? Do you tie a little ribbon on the fruited ones so you know later?

I have only Heritage. Right now the canes that produced fruits are out there waiting for me to cut them back to about 12-18 inches. I will also prune out any puny ones. They are kind of brown and scaly looking and they are the only canes in the patch. They will provide a crop on side shoots starting about late June here, for three weeks. When they are done I will cut them down to the ground.

While they are fruiting, the new canes will be growing up through them. They will be different looking, strong and new and green. ( They make picking the fruit kind of hard since they are so full of leaves and surround the fruiting canes so I am somewhat glad to prune out when the time comes.) They are the main crop - is the right name primocane? They will begin blooming quickly and the fruit will start on the tops sometime in August here. The lateral shoots will form fruits all through September into early October if the weather permits it. Next late winter they will be cut back and bear again.

I also cut out bits of the plant during the fruiting season after they are complete to encourage branching and more fruit.

It is February and my Early Sensation Daffodils are blooming! Love them. Everyone who loves spring and gardening should grow them.

I'm actually kind of glad that this thread got renewed. I've got some Heritage, I think, and am curious about trying a two fruit season. As for figuring out which ones have already fruited, mine are pretty easy. The fruits come off, but the clusters that I pluck em from don't, so they're pretty obvious. I'm just getting my patch established so I won't get much this year, but next year should be decent.

Thanks all for the info, especially fruitgirl. that was a good explanation.

d
a v
e

So, if, say, I got 10 canes this year to start, I should get a decent crop next year...enough to make raspberry jelly, for instance (needs about 8 cups of berries)

I dug up this post because I ran accross a website with a complete explanation on how one person grows her fall bearing raspberries - complete with pictures.

There is also one picture that shows this years and last years canes side by side. One can see how obviously different the current year's green canes are.

You need to scroll down about 2/3 of the way. Just above the section with the picture of the mason bee house.

Here is a link that might be useful: reliable raspberries

Just a note on pruning back. I grow Heritae and Autumn Bliss as well as one Summer variety. The everbearing ones I cut down in the fall or very early spring to the ground for my own peace of mind. I already have a summer crop on the other patch I can hardly keep up with never mind haveing another patch to contendwith. It also keeps the berry patch much more tidy. The summer variety I go out around easter time and put colored flagging tape on every cane in the patch. This will tell me in the fall or early the next spring what canes to cut out. They canes without flagging tape will be the new growth. Now it is not a fun job putting the tape on since you get scratch up alot but it makes pruning out the old canes much more simple and you can do it about mindlessly. Currantly I am waiting for my foot of snow to go from my field so I can prune out the old and reflag the new for this season. But I think it a good way to keep up on what is new growth and what is old.

My thanks to Murky for referring me to Reliable Raspberries, Darlene White. I have printed it out to give to the folks that we share our raspberry plants with. I was also intrigued by the mason bees because I had just recently learned about them and how to build houses to encourage them.