The larger problem is the varying size of the plants. While all are buh types Pic n Pic is early and compact, The scallops are larger, but pretty well behaved. Black beauty is larger but tyical for a zuke, Ronde de Nice/Tonda di Nizza is twice the size of the the others and tends to sprawl.

I am very interested. My mother killed her small Japanese Maple last year (accidentally) and I would love to gift her with another. I don't have anything on your list I don't think (I did collect some zebra grass seed this fall but that's about it). I'm starting hosta seeds in a few weeks so I could send some of those to you in the spring if any end up variegated. Incidentally, my husband was enamored with bonsai until I started gardening. Then he stopped watering his tropicals that were inside for the winter and basically gave it all up when they died. Looks like I might be taking over the hardier ones that have been abandoned on our deck!

besides the fact they seem to be natural & well outside the "official" native range is that they are growing on bottomland soil as far as I can tell, possibly even in the Potomac floodplain! Not where you expect a "hard" maple to be! ==>>> exactly who is this 'official' who takes the time to draw up maps of of mother earths preferences???? when one relies on a government bureaucrat.. for anything... they soon find.. the bureaucrat.. has no real clue with reality ... one might suggest that the 'official' range is perhaps.. COMPLETELY WRONG ... ???? where does one go from there??? now.. as for your excitement.. and new knowledge.. all the power to ya.. i hope you do burn the gas.. to go the 35 miles.. and get some pix while you are there.. to share with us .... i dont understand why you are hesitating about the decision at all ..... GO FOR IT ... ken ps: i had the same thoughts in regard to your other post on those un-named.. OFFICIALS... changing zone maps .... if you take nothing else from these two post.... it should be.. to ALWAYS question the OFFICIAL ...

We have one black maple and three sugar maples in our lawn. The black maple was purchased from a local nursery here in West Central Minnesota, with the understanding it was a "green mountain" sugar maple. As it was the first maple we had ever planted, we didn't realize that it was different from typical sugar maples until 20 years later when we decided to plant some more sugar maples. Now, 15 years after the sugar maples were planted, we can clearly see the difference between the two species (some experts prefer to call black maple a subspecies of sugar maple). The black maple has much larger leaves that are rather leathery and always look drooped. Initially, we thought that the droopiness was due to its location in a full sun, rather windy spot. But, after 35 years, the droopy leaves are always like that, and they are always leathery too. The large leaf size always receives comments from visitors. Fall coloration probably isn't all that much different than our sugar maples, but I feel the colors have more punch/vividness to them. Also, the leaves hang on much longer than on the sugar maples, having begun to change color at least one week before the sugar maples, and keeping it at least a week longer as well. It is worth noting that the black maple begins to turn color rather slowly and progresses throughout the tree over a span of about 4 weeks. As I write this in mid-October, there are still some green leaves on the north side of the tree's crown, while the vibrant reds and oranges that first appeared on the south side have now been blown off the tree in the past 3 days when 30+ mph winds came through. All of our sugar maples were purchased with the "Green Mountain" tag affixed to them. They have smaller leaves and all seem to turn color about the same time, and rather quickly at that, from green to full orange color in about a week's time. The sugar maples we have have grown much more rapidly than the black maple. The first 10-15 years, the black maple grew very slowly on our yellow clay, well drained soil. After 15 years, it seemed to pick up the pace somewhat, perhaps due to having a well established root system. Then again, it may simply be characteristic of black maple to grow slowly. We have wanted to intentionally purchase another black maple or two to grace some added space we have in our lawn. However, no nurseries have been found that offer it. Strange, as the black maple is an outstanding shade tree! What I have reported is based only on our personal experience with one specimen. Maybe others with black maples would care to offer some of their experiences to this thread as well. DarylJ