We live on a golf course, and there are a lot of trees that grow fine with just sprinkler water. There are many citrus trees with grass planted right up to their trunks and they are loaded with fruit!!

On the flip side, some of the palm trees struggle because they need deep watering. I take matters into my own hands and slow drip a hose on OUR palms that are in the grass. That way they are getting that deep watering at least once a week.

Deep watering encourages the roots to go deep.

I guess it depends what the specific needs of your fruit trees are. Mostly there should be a big watering basin around each tree to the drip line so that you can deep water. In the front yard you could put a nice planter around each tree and put marigolds or something in there. That would be very attractive, and they would love the sprinkler!

I live in southeastern NY and I really don't like orchards that are growing in lawns with sprinkler systems. Too much water makes for bland fruit and splashing on leaves encourages fungus. Rank growth from too much water encourages sucking insects like scale and mites.

Fruit trees benefit from deep watering during drought only in the east coast except during establishment. I am speaking of semi-standard sized trees, not dwarfs.

Your sprinkler system will help the trees to establish quickly, however.

Thanks Harvestman & Desertdance-

I figure I want a sprinkler system anyway for the rest of the yard. The orchard area will be it's own zone, and I can always reduce or even turn that zone off. Good points about the bland fruit, fungus, mites, etc. Do you agree that I could minize the effects of the bland fruit and rank growth by mounding the dirt or possibly using a partial water barrier around the tree under the mulch?

Thanks,
-Glenn

I think drip is good. the commercial growers here use drip.

Yeah, I would use drip if I just had trees way out in back or something, but the real reason for the sprinklers is for the grass... if not specifically in that area, for the rest of the yard. Thanks, -Glenn

You're getting opinions from many different moisture climates so each one is coming from a different perspective. I'm from a very dry climate where survival of any tree and even grass depends on irrigating the entire growing season. I'm not partial to sprinkling trees because of the increased moisture on the leaves and greater likelihood of disease. I'm also familiar with a nearby home orchard that is sprinkled and the leaves are white all summer--the well water is very high in minerals, which then dry on the leaves leaving a white coating of lime.

That said, I like your solution of sprinkling lightly and more often for the grass, wetting the soil only a couple inches deep, which will result in less water for the trees down deeper. Your natural rainfall would probably provide adequate water for any established tree, unless you have to water deeply on occasion during extended dry periods.

Another thought is whether you can use sprinklers that spray at a very low angle so you don't get the foliage on the trees wet. That would reduce the potential for leaf diseases and might reduce any insect problems that wet foliage helps promote.

Frequent, shallow irrigations don't encourage the grass roots to grow deep and use water in a much greater amount of soil. The shallow watering is also more prone to evaporation at the surface, so it takes more water. However, if you normally have sufficient rainfall that this is just supplemental on occasion, your grass should normally grow deep roots and short periods of light irrigation won't change this.

Trees do not absorb water from a different zone than grass. Trees just have the added capacity to go deep when needed. Frequent light watering for grass probably isn't the best for a deep root structure and overall health for grass either, although grass is not my specialty. Around here, frequent light waterings for grass is used to reduce strain on wells not because it's a key to healthier grass.

Geraldo, I have great respect for your expereince and usually agree with you but I think you're wrong if you believe that excess water doesn't reduce fruit brix. I get to sample fruit from so many sites I feel strongly that it is a very important factor in the east coast concerning fruit quality. You may have such excellent drainage that it is impossible to affect apple quality with too much water on your site. On the other hand, we are both talking from the anecdotal so I could be wrong.

Anyone out there aware of research on this issue?

As far as mounding soil, I have found growing fruit on mounds improves the quality of fruit in poor drainage sites (speaking anecdotally again). It also helps them establish pronto on any site. In general, I have had great success in establishing orchards in poor drainage sites by mound culture. Some don't like the appearence however, unless you surround the mounds with blocks or stones.

You can't use plastic to stop water from reaching the root zone of fruit trees because it will encourage a shallow root-system just below the plastic which may freeze roots in winter.

Harvest, I was trying to say that it depends on where you farm, soil, sun, etc. That is why I capped In My Location.
I have sandy loam soil and I have sometimes kept it pretty wet. The brix on the Fujiis often reached 16. When people bit into them the juice flew in all directions and I had return buyers. There is something called mouthfeel and the dry land apples I have had often lacked that certain subjective something. I would be surprised if any Fuji grown under dry conditions just would do much better than 16. If it did I wonder if it would lack juice and mouthfeel.
It is best to fine tune the water for your location and drip will do that better, IMHO.

I wanted to add that I am sure there is a study that will show too much water will reduce brix, that is why it happens so much easier to a peach. I just think you have to balance things on your site.

Geraldo I looked and there are indeed studies, and they show a small but measurable effect. My read is that being a bit stingy with the water can be a positive factor helping brix a bit, but on the other hand if you overdo the stinginess you can hurt your brix (and certainly hurt fruit size and yield).

Scott

Here is a link that might be useful: One study for example; around 1 point brix difference

Glenn- Suggest you use poly drip pipe, same stuff they use in vineyards. Put a coil of it around each tree.

Hi Fruithack-
Right. I could use drip irrigation if I just wanted to water the trees. No problem. But the real thing here is... I want to water the grass, and how to minimize the water getting to the trees within the grass (if possible). -Glenn

Scott, my favorite research man. You spoke of research to tweek brix level with varied irrigation levels, but what about the affect of constant or near constant saturation?

I have actually found a lot of mediocre fruit on sites with poor drainage on wet years. I'm not talking subtle differences. On dry years the apples are generally very noticably sweeter most everywhere- smaller too. Just as a tree with too much N produces bigger, blander fruit.

Hi Harvestman-
And I may find out that you're right.

Even without a sprinkler system, I do have to water my trees from time to time in the summer. Perhaps that area of the sprinkler system will be used mostly when the trees are young before fruit is in production. After that, perhaps I won't be able to water them as much (though still, water just a little).

The good news is that I already have a producing Granny Smith in the back yard, and now IÂll have a GS in the front yard. I'll be able to do a sweetness taste test on both apples and see if the water is having an effect. If so, I'll further reduce the water.

Thanks for helping me to be prepared for these types of things... which I would probably have never thought of!
-Glenn

If you're from New England don't sweat watering unless the tree is young. In 30 years we've never needed to water our the apples or pears. (I suppose the trees here are old varieties though) I wouldn't call it dry land culture. We basically average just under an 1" of precipitation per week every week of the year. Yet it can get dry but the humidity keeps enough moisture in the air so again watering really isn't neccessary. Watering will get quick growth and results but in the long run no irrigation of any kind will pay dividends. It makes the trees resistant to lack of water. It's kind of funny but trees can become 'spoiled' and get used to having to be watered. Moreover, if you don't evenly distribute the irrigation over the surface of the soil the roots will grow in unnatural patterns making them, again, suceptible to drought and inefficiency of converting nutrients. Lastly, fruit are like any food in that, it normally has a better taste when kept from growing too large (e.g. lobster, veal, and swine).

Well that's all I have to say for now. But, I can thank Paul Vossen at UCDavis for teaching me that.

I don't even water my own thirst in New England, I breath in more water than I exhale most days. Maybe that's why I feel like I'm drowning.

If you are planning to setup the sprinkler system by yourself, here is a link that talks about setting up a sprinkler system in detail.

http://yourhomegardenblog.com/lawn/how-to-build-an-affordable-sprinkler-system-for-your-lawn

This does not talk about sprinkler system for trees though.

Here is a link that might be useful: http://yourhomegardenblog.com

I'll preface this with "your soil and weather conditions my vary"

I also have lawns with fruit trees interspersed. I clear the grass for a few feet around the trees and cover the bare ground with redwood mulch.

My approach has been to adjust the sprinklers to water the grass, but not water the circles around the trees. I use Accurain sprinklers which may accomodate this better than some systems.

The trees are watered deeply with a hose every few weeks depending on the weather. A drip system would accomplish the same thing if timed appropriately. My thinking is that deep root growth is better promoted by this method. The grass, while watered "deeply" every other day, is only wetted to a depth of a few inches. Grass roots just aren't that deep. What the trees want and what the grass wants are different.

Hi Lifespeed.
Good info. That's pretty much what I've been thinking. I got done with the basics of my front yard orchard: clearing trees, leveling, spreading loam, making 5 slightly raised beds and got the first two trees in. Perhaps if I get ambitious, I'll post a pic later tonight. The sprinkler system won't go in until next year. When that happens, I'll probably attempt to do something like you've talked about. I've also considered using laying down pie pieces of plastic on the mounds to help take water away from the trees. Worst case, if it's causing the trees problems, I'll just turn the sprinklers way down, or off. Thanks,
-Glenn

As mentioned above, I got ambitious and put up pics in this thread.
-Glenn