Very odd.I've never heard of this before and have had chickens since 1988.Could she have been blind or had a stroke as a chick? It almost sounds like she was suffering from one or both of those problems given what you have said in your post.Sorry to hear about your loss.I am just as determined as you when it comes to trying to save an animal.They all deserve the chance at life.Sherry

OK, I'm going to have a hard time writing this because your post makes me really, REALLY angry. I'm going by what you wrote here, so if any of this is in error please shed some light on it.

You have an animal that steadily declines, and shows VERY obvious signs of illness over a TWO YEAR period and it NEVER occurs to you to take the poor thing to a vet? Or read a book on poultry care? Search the Internet (which is thick with poultry forums and information sites, including my own) for advice or help? And when it gets really bad, you make a half-assed attempt at home care and then just decide that it's too much of a bother and to let it starve as it thrashes around and flails in obvious distress? My God, it sounds like that poor animal suffered. :(

Hope your kids never get sick.

You are not a 'sap for animals', you are instead the worst kind of animal owner--unprepared and too lazy to take steps to solve a health problem or QUICKLY (not weeks later) do the right thing for the animal by humanely euthanizing it.

In a normal, healthy flock that is properly housed and cared for, death is NOT common--it is the exception, not the rule. Just out of curiousity since you mention it, how many of your other birds died, and were they all young, as well?

It does not sound as if you are prepared to keep chickens. God knows what else was wrong with her, but your bird was exhibiting clear, classic signs of an illness known as Stargazing or Twirling at the end. It's two main causes are head injury or a nutritional deficiency. Myself and many other chicken owners have successfully, simply and easily treated this condition with readily available over the counter vitamins and minerals.

Please, PLEASE educate yourself about your chickens, for the benefit of your other birds. There are many, many threads in this forum on chicken care, home treatment for injuries and illness, etc. PLEASE read them. Or rehome your chickens to someone who is prepared to commit to their proper keep. Not having the time or energy to properly care for an animal is NOT a sin. The sin creeps in when those conditions arise and you continue to keep the animal anyway, to their detriment.

Velvet ~:>

The sad truth is that we all will experience the death of our animals and there's just no getting around that. Whether it's from disease, injury or old age doesn't matter, it's always hard to endure.

Velvet Sparrow, I've used your web site many times to get information about caring for my little flock. You really do know a lot about chickens. And I always read your replies to peoples comments about problems for the helpful information they contain.

Robin was looking for help and support and you had a golden opportunity to help her and to share what you knew about her chicken's disease. But unfortunately you prefaced your comments with anger, name-calling and by implying that she would let her children die before seeking medical help. I'm not sure how you can say you care for animals and be so callous. It's too bad that Robin didn't have the experience or knowledge to know what to do to help her chicken recover. Comparing that lack of knowledge to her mothering ability is just vicious and cruel.

As time goes by Robin will learn from her mistakes and will recognize illness in her birds and will know what to do. In time I hope that you will also learn that you can help people more by expressing yourself with a little more sensitivity and kindness. After all, as small flock owners we're on the same team, and as Garden-webbers we all seek knowledge. Be a helper, not a hurter. Cheryl

seamommy wrote to velvet_sparrow: "Robin was looking for help and support and you had a golden opportunity to help her and to share what you knew about her chicken's disease. But unfortunately you prefaced your comments with anger, name-calling and by implying that she would let her children die before seeking medical help. I'm not sure how you can say you care for animals and be so callous."

The "dumb bird" comments coupled with the lack of medical attention "ruffled my feathers" as well. Maybe velvet_sparrow did speak a little harshly, but I found it difficult to read about this poor suffering animal being referred to as "dumb or stupid" (more than once) when what was making it stupid was an UNDIAGNOSED illness.

The OP says (on her member page) that she has been ill in recent months. Did she ignore her symptoms for two years before seeking medical help for herself?

In any case velvet_sparrow is normally a wealth of chicken information. I have rarely read any rude comments in her posts. She takes excellent care of her birds and I'd be honored to accept her advice about proper chicken care.

marbles_n_the_garden-You said "Any information is greatly appreciated" and that "I want to learn as much as I can so that I am a better chicken caretaker". Please don't hold velvet_sparrow comments against her and stop visiting this thread. Our animals benefit from other posters expertise. Her venting is on behalf of a helpless creature, not to dress anyone down. Read her other posts and you will see what a caring person she normally is.

Oh my god..this is exactly what is happening to one of my hens..2 days ago,I found one of my 2 year old moran hens was looking a little dizzy. I have to keep them in the coop during the day as we've had MANY fox visits after our first one. I keep them warm,dry,,fresh water,,,food,,,lots of attention,,but she's looking dizzy and sleepy. Can someone please tell me what to do for her?? Is she going to die?? It's been 2 days and I'm getting really worried,and for the others in with her...they all seem in excellent health.

Cheryl, I understand your comments. While it's true I rarely speak (or type, as we do here) in anger, I felt that the OP's post was VERY deserving of my comments based on what was written, and I stand by them. I took a very long time to carefully type out my post and considered each word--I posted more than an hour after reading the post, after thinking quite a bit.

I urge you to re-read both my and the OP's post, and see if you don't find it bizarre that someone claims to love animals in one breath and in the next describes in detail how she noticed something was very wrong TWO YEARS ago, and at the end let it suffer for WEEKS, even unto starvation, without once ever seeking help for it. She even found amusement in the entire scenario, which left me sickened and disgusted. Hers was NOT normal behavior.

To help illustrate my point: if this animal were a dog or cat, people would be up in arms and calling for charges of animal cruelty and/or neglect. If it was a child, the OP would be facing serious charges or jail time.

Like I said at the very beginning of my post, if there is any error in what she wrote, or she left out details that change things, she needs to clarify. She has not returned to do so. Lacking that, I can only go by what she wrote. If my unvarnished comments help jar her into taking a serious look at her abilities to keep animals, great! Because at the end of the day, the important thing is to do right by our animals, whether our feelings get hurt or not. That is the responsibility we accept and the promise that we make when we become the owners of an animal.

Anyway, soapbox time is over. :)

beeliz, can you give us more info on your bird? Is she eating, drinking, how are her poops, is she losing weight, etc.?

Velvet ~:>

Velvet, I'm so sad...it looks like she's going to die. She looked a little stumbly a couple days ago,but eating and drinking ok. She's large...so I thought it was maybe her weight? anyways,she was dizzy looking...normal poops,but always sleeping on the coop floor..not with the rest of the other 3 girls. and she was closing her eyes almost all the 2 days. yesturday she was about the same but got up to see me,and ate..ect. I don't understand..I feel so helpless and terrible. what did I do? Could this be stopped? I think I'm going to have to euthanize her.

OK,
First of all, I know that no matter what I write here, it will probably only make things worse. However, I was not accusing anyone when I wrote my post. I laid it right out there to get some help, and I was treated rudely. My feelings on this are along the lines of what seamommy has expressed but in a much nicer way than I would have written, so that is why I didn't write--I didn't want to be rude.

Winter was only bad in the last 2 weeks. We had no history on her when a neighbor gave her to us. His chickens were allowed to walk in the road were often "troublesome" (with his other chickens) in a neighbors yard, and they had a dog.

The "dumb": reference to Winter seems to bother people. I do not feel it is rude to say that we merely thought the chicken was dumb. In spite of that we cared about her just the same, and even more.

The first thing we noticed was she didn't huddle with the other chickens, but she was very fluffy, and was getting food, so we just thought she was old & crotchety and didn't want to be near them, or that she was "too dumb to come out of the weather" as the expression goes. For A LONG TIME after that, we had NO problems with her, except that she would peck other chickens from time to time as chickens do.

ONLY RECENTLY, has she started to fail. When she side-swiped the bush, going after another chicken, I immediately went out to the farmer/neighbor and asked him about it. He said maybe her eyesight wasn't good. There were no other indications at that point, and she didn't bump into everything.

At our place, the lowest hen on the totem pole comes in first in the evening. That is the only way she can get a place--because of her position in the flock. The more dominant ones went in later. Winter was one of these. When the rooster started going out to get her, I continued to think it may be her eyesight--since there were no other indications of ANYTHING.

Meanwhile, I had purchased several books on chickens and had discussions with chicken owning neighbors about general chicken care and so on, including a mention of Winter's ways. No concern was expressed, and I found little information on eyesight going, and as far as I know they do not make glasses or contacts for chickens.

She had been happy her entire time here up until the last couple of days. We thought she was dumb because chickens aren't as smart as, say, chimpanzees. And although we noticed a couple of LITTLE things, we consulted books and experienced "chicken people".

When we started to bring her in, we thought the rooster was sick of getting her. We did not have to do it every night--nor did the rooster--but it was often enough that we thought "too dumb to find her way out of a paper bag" was what was going on with her.

ONLY RECENTLY, did she OCCASIONALLY have a hard time getting out. The flow of chickens out the door made her turn and go the other way. We thought BECAUSE HER NATURE WAS GROUCHY, that she was just trying to get away from them, then we would put her out. Some chickens do not like to walk past other chickens.

We have discussed our chickens with other experienced chicken people, and they have said to us, "Boy, I never really noticed that before, you pay way more close attention to them than I do."

The farmer out back revealed the other day that he kills all his chickens at 2 years because after laying lots of eggs, it is hard on their body, and things happen. I suppose the humane thing to do would be to go out and kill all our older chickens now so that they do not have to suffer one second of an ailment from allowing them to live out their lives whether productive or not. (Sarcasm)

By the way, I know of nobody else who would risk a lightning strike to get a chicken inside--which I did. I was holding her when it hit so close to us. If that is not a demonstration of caring & concern, I don't know what would satisfy someone else's idea of caring.

I have worked in 2 veterinary hospitals, I have assisted in surgery. I have saved MANY animals on my own. I had read about stargazing before, but it didn't seem appropriate here. The bad symptoms were compressed into the last week and a half. The day I brought her inside the house another chicken grabbed her by the neck as I walked into the coop. She dashed away and then went into decline. Personally, I believe it was a problem in her hind brain. I read what I could on stargazing again since it was suggested here. It does not seem the right diagnosis. We do not have chicken vets around here--I called. Everyone says, "Cull."

MY MAIN POINT was to get every symptom that I noticed written down so I could get some feed back. I want to learn from this, and I bet most people with chickens would not have lept into action when she merely didn't huddle with the other because she was cranky. I would never let a chicken twirl her head around for 2 years while tube feeding.

I wonder how many other chicken owners resort to tube feeding to help their chickens out. I can tell you--NOBODY around here--I have talked to them. I did it with another chicken who was injured and she lived, and is doing great now. We called Winter 9-lives because with all her little idiosyncrasies, it seemed she would go before anyone else--but she never did--BECAUSE SHE WAS OTHERWISE HEALTHY.

As far as dumb & stupid go, it didn't occur to me that they would be offensive terms for chickens. Should I have said: bird brain? intellectually challenged? mentally stunted? diminished capacity? one egg shy of a dozen? My point in using dumb was to illustrate that I thought she was only rather UNbright, and maybe had bad vision; in other words, I believe her problem to be a non-infectious mechanical or congenital brain thing.

I do not know what happened before we got her. Her odd gait toward the end seemed like an old person thing--stiff in the morning. Should we spare stiff old people the suffering of that type of gait and humaly euthanize them? She had great care here--in a safe place. Frankly, we love our chickens like other people love their dogs. We pay a lot of attention to them. We don't cull because of some defect in beauty or whatever. As long as they are phisically healthy, and not suffering, then we care for them. The last 2 days, she was suffereing. I could not get an appointment with the farmer the first day, so it was on the second that he came over.

I did not know I was getting graded on my "essay" and I flunked for non-PC word use or not having paid more attention to expressing the exact chronology of the story. I was crying when I wrote it, and I didn't realize I was being graded/judged on it.

We love these chickens so much that my husband makes fun of me and my children. As far as my children go, don't mess with mother bear!

By the way beeliz, apparently Velvet would have killed that chicken already, and you are making it suffer according to her standards.

well...she died this afternoon on her own,peacefully. I couldn't do anything for her..I also called around..but no-one really knew what to do...so I let her die peacefully.
Don't worry Marbles,we all feel for our animals and I know you didn't mean any harm by saying "dumb" about the hen...I think sometimes people become a bit too over the top with things that they have to recognize others aren't all like them..that's all.
and by the way..I do feel bad about losing my girl today,I understand how you feel too.

beeliz, I'm sorry you lost your hen. :( I'm glad you cared about her enough to seek help. Sometimes the best thing we can do for our animals is to provide them a loving, safe place to pass.

marbles, you have created a long story, but your posts have certainly cemented my opinion. You need to read a lot more on keeping chickens and accelerate your learning curve. It is a fact that chickens, being a prey animal, will hide an injury or illness for as long as possible, not revealing that anything is wrong until it is almost too late. THAT is why experienced chicken owners will leap into action at the first sign of anything wrong--they know that time is short.

Chickens are one of those domesticated animals that are recently making the switch from 'food/farm animal' to 'pet'. Big time chicken ranchers who raise the birds for business cannot afford to take the time and effort to nurse a single sick bird back to health, so yes, they cull. Hobby owners like myself and a lot of the people here and on other forums I frequent, keep the birds for eggs and pets, with some people I know making the move to bring a single chicken or two indoors as housechickens, much like they would a dog or a cat. It works well for a lot of people. Unfortunately, many vets and the public at large do not see chickens as pets, they still see them as 'stupid food animals with little to no worth, more easily and cheaply replaced', which is the picture you painted with your description of Winter.

marbles, I don't know you and you don't know me, other than what we post here. My posts, and those of others, were in answer to what YOU yourself wrote, in your own words. Don't flame the responses people make here just because you chose your words poorly, or saw the reaction here to them and backpedaled after the fact.

I offered you the best advice I could, based on the slim description of details you provided after the bird was already dead--my suggestion to you to read the previous posts here on the Farm Forum on chickens was a serious one, and had you bothered you would have seen exactly how far I will go to help and care for my own and others' chickens. I myself have handfed more chickens than I care to count, and I've had numerous chickens come into the house to recover from illness and injuries--last year my New Hampshire hen Maggie spent 5 months in my kitchen recovering from a broken thigh. Many people here tell similar stories. So you see, here going to labor-intensive efforts to nurse a chicken back to health is the norm, not the exception--and many people think we are nuts for doing this (it's that old 'dumb food animals' mindset again). If you care to read it at all, my chicken info site is here:

http://home.earthlink.net/~velvetsparrow/VSChick.htm

Since you came back so spitefully I can see that you did not do any reading. I myself actively promote trying to save birds and have provided much needed help and advice here to people that is not otherwise readily available, most of it based on my many, many years of experience with my chickens, tons of reading and lots of heartache when things go wrong.

By the way, ANY vet can see a chicken (it does not HAVE to be an avian vet), you just have to get past the staff member who is answering the phone and talk to the vet, 9 times out of 10 he'll tell you to bring in the chicken so he can take a look at it. The staff usually simply doesn't know any better. Since you say you worked for several vets, I'm surprised you didn't know this, and am doubly surprised that one of your vet friends couldn't help you out, even if only by phone...?

Many vets, when presented with a pet chicken, tend to think along the lines of the mindset of the old-time farmer and don't think you'd want to spend money on 'just a chicken'. It's up to you to let them know that the animal is a pet, and is as important to you as a family dog when seeking treatment.

I'm done with comments in this thread, I think anything further would be pointless.

Velvet ~:>

Beeliz,
I am very sorry for your loss. I understand the heartache of doing everything you can, and not being able to actually help. It is frustrating.

Velvet,
What is more frustrating is asking for help and getting condescension from someone on a soapbox (your word). I was not back-pedaling, and was criticized by you for NOT responding. The first respondent seemed to understand the intent in what I wrote without the anger and snide comments about my kids. I--at a better time--tried to clarify, which YOU asked for. Originally, I was not going to respond at all because you were so rude. Another poster put it nicely, and was also able to express concern over what I wrote and the way I wrote it without insults.

What do you expect but a spiteful response to what you wrote in reference to my children? Since you are so "angered" I can only imagine you would be worse if you lost a chicken (even though you tried), and then someone says the things you did about your kids. The "not normal" comment is from someone looking down on another.

As for the reading I did: were you watching me to see how much I did? If you had been, you would have seen a lot of time devoted to that. Obviously, because you are so far above the rest of us in experience and knowledge, you've forgotten that you may actually be wrong. "Coming back spitefully" does not "prove" that I didn't read. It shows disgust for what you said about my children. Then you said that I deserved those comments.

Yes, I know you can take any animal to any vet. That is a given. Most of them don't know what to do with chickens. Frankly, I have found the local farmers an breeders to be more knowledgeable about chickens than vets--and they were at a loss. If vets take any birds, their knowledge usually centers around the fanciers birds--not chickens. One hospital I worked for kept chickens, but wouldn't see them as patients.

You wrote: see them as 'stupid food animals with little to no worth, more easily and cheaply replaced', which is the picture you painted with your description of Winter.

Response: I do not see them that way. We do not eat ANY of our animals. No animal is cheaply replaced; they are all individuals that we care about. The "dumb" thing was endearing to us.

I have never claimed to be an expert as you have (years of experience, etc.), but I certainly did what I could. A chicken who is being fed is not starving. I decide to stop putting her through tube feeding when she took that last turn. I tube fed her for a day and a half, then she got up and ate on her own; knowing her, I thought she'd be ready to go back out in a week. I don't kill an animal because it is "different". I only have them put down if they are suffering. She is the first chicken we have had to put down. I could not do that myself. If I chose the farmer to put her down over the vet, and that bothers people, there is nothing I can do about that. He knows us and our animals.

She did not linger for weeks in her bad state. If she had an infectious organism, the other chickens would have gotten it. A couple of our other chickens stand in the water from time to time too--we still think that is "silly" (hope that word is OK), and not good for their drinking supply and have to change the water constantly. We do not say, "Something is wrong with that chicken," in such circumstances.

In our area, our chickens are consider "spoiled".

Dreamgarden,
I do not know if I will post here again. After the belittling, and hurtful comments, and feeling my replies were necessary in defense of the truth that I know, this forum is not appealing at present. Policing every word and exact chronology when I write something is not appealing. Opening up to have shots fired at me & my children is not appealing. BUT, I thank you for hoping that I would stay.

I hope that you will continue to post here.I too have faced a situation much the same as yours.Five years ago I purchased a day old baby goat from a local auction barn.It lived one night before dying on me.I posted at that time,it was halloween,frantic to find information on how to help the kid.I was shot down but took the good with the bad and did'nt let it stop me from posting here.
Animals die,its a part of nature,and sometimes we forget that the main fuction of most livestock is to be eaten.I keep my own animals as pets but realize that they are eventually going to be eaten or die.My chickens are for eggs,the hens remain with me until they die,of either old age or illness.I have only ever once gone to a vet to have a bird looked at.In that case the bird was already dead and I wanted to find out what killed her.The vet was unable to answer that question and the exam cost me $35.00.Not much today but this was in 1988.After that I let nature take its course.Were I to run to a vet each time an animal died it would cost me more then the animal was worth.The money is better spent on quality food or preventative care for the animal.Either of or both of these go along way in animal husbandry.
I care for my animals and will take every precaution to insure that nothing happens to them.I have had chickens for 19 years,it will be 20 in May.Rabbits for six years and the goats five years.My goats are/were looked at by a vet if and when they needed one.I usually try and deal with a problem on my own first or ask someone who has more experience then I do.If I were told to get the vet in then that is what I would do.
As for the chicken who wasted away over a two week period she could have had anything wrong with her from plain old age to cancer.It is not uncommon for a chicken to "hide" its symptoms but once you actually find a bird that is "ill" or displaying "symptoms" it's usually too late to help.This comes not from my own experiences but from a book I purchased 19 years ago.It was called raising birds the modern way and is still in print today.The book is very informative and covers a wide range of bird related husbandry.Indigo or Chapters should either carry or be able to order it for you.Good luck and please don't stop asking for help here.How else will you learn,Sherry.

Dreamgarden,
I do not know if I will post here again. After the belittling, and hurtful comments, and feeling my replies were necessary in defense of the truth that I know, this forum is not appealing at present. Policing every word and exact chronology when I write something is not appealing. Opening up to have shots fired at me & my children is not appealing. BUT, I thank you for hoping that I would stay.

marbles_n_the_garden-Don't let the bumpy start deter you from learning more about your animals or making a few new friends!. Sometimes things DO get a little heated here, but most folks know when to cut their losses and move on. I know I've probably aggravated a few posters, but they are don't keep reminding me each time I post again.

Give it another chance. Start a new thread. This is a good forum and there are a lot of intelligent people who post here.

I'd be curious to know more about the kinds of cases you helped treat at the veterinary hospitals. Were they mostly dogs and cats? Or did you work on anything unusual?

My first veterinary job was at 15, and our vet did all kinds of animals. I did not go on the large animal vet calls, but any other farm animals--such as chickens--would have been seen then. Back in those days, people didn't have exotics. I observed surgeries, and did post-op care. We were a hospital, and not a kennel. I only worked with cats and dogs there.

Another animal hospital I worked at included a kennel, and at times we had 150 dogs in the place. There, I assisted in surgery, post-op, x-ray assistance, medications, dentistry assistance, and all the kennel stuff. I did not go on large animal/farm calls. I was 25 then. Exotics still had not caught on yet, although there may have been a bunny or two.

Anytime I see an animal on the highway, or obviously alone, I stop. Most animals would head home at that, but sometimes you just know something has happened. I have reunited several animals with their owners. I used to live in a vacation spot, and many tourists lost their animals, but still had to go home.

I have cared for injured wild birds, and if I cannot help them I take them to the wildlife trust organization locally. I have taken in lots of animals over the years, and one spring someone left a box of kittens (unopened!) in the park/woods near my house, and the neighborhood kids brought them to me. I placed EVERY one of them in either a home, or a no-kill shelter where they subsequently found a home.

I have stitched up animals, and done what I could, and know my limits. When it is beyond me, I take them somewhere.

One cat I found had been hit, and each end of its body was trying to run in different directions. I figured it had a spinal injury, and wouldn't make it. I took it to the vet, posted for the owner, and found a home for him when no-one came forward. he is very happy, and only occasionally awkward.

Winter did not waste over two weeks. I tube fed her. I stopped that a day and a half before putting her down. Initially the feeding was helping, and she got to the point of standing & eating. Things were looking up. Then she took a turn, so I continued to tube feed to get has back to the place I got her before. When I realized it wasn't happening, I had to stop. Then, I proceeded to enlist the farmer's help. He wasn't home until the next night.

I have a subscription to Backyard Poultry Magazine, Hobby Farmers, Countryside, Backwoods Home, and others. I have the Raising Poulty the Modern Way (and the other titles: turkeys, goats, etc.), Storey's Guide to Raising Chickens, the ABC's of Chicken Raising, the Chicken Health Guide, and more. I also use the internet a lot, and spend much time on pictures of chickens insides and so on. One of my concerns was getting tube-food in the airway. I looked into that a great deal when Zebra was attacked by a fox, and I saved her with tube feeding. I had one chicken that I thought was egg impacted, and spent much time viewing the anatomy at the other end and on the inside.

I have operated on fish that were alive in a class in college. Winter's situation was quite unusual. She was not physically ill. It was all brain. As long as she was happy and eating we were happy to have her. Each loss is a heartbreak, and actually was quite depressed for a few days, and it was made worse by posting here. I have Lupus, but the physical problems I have would never prevent me from taking action with an animal. I just cannot go out and shovel in the garden for hours like I used to. Mainly I post in the gardening section, so that was the pertinence of mentioning of my illness. No one but me is going to count seeds and mail them for trade, but my 17 year old son is very involved in the chickens, and we & our "chicken neighbors" are very supportive of each other.

I do have a lot of experience with animals, and most friends call me for advice. I find wild birds the hardest to heal, and although chickens are more manageable, there is something "delicate" about the constitution of birds, and I am trying to learn more.

Dreamgarden, thanks for your support.
Robin

Sad story here indeed.

I have read all the entries, and have to agree with Seamommy on this one. With all due respect to velvetsparrow - who's website I have referenced and re-referenced over the past two years, and remains on my list of "favorites" - helpful criticism is one thing, but out-right condemnation is another.

We all have made mistakes - especially while learning. Yes, I know I've made my share, and I only hope that my ignorance does not cause me to be negligent in ways I'm not aware of. We all hope this. Therefore, I lurk on this forum (and others) to read as much as possible...but by the tone of some of these replies, I would be very, VERY hesitant to write for help about a sick animal for fear of reprisal...and I seldom post on this forum anymore.

There are other forums, Marbles. I'm sorry for your loss, and I'm sorry you were bashed around a little here. Good luck with the rest of your flock.

LF

I am dismayed at how this thread has gone awry. I am convinced that the problem is that the written word does not convey emotion, so is very prone to mis-interpetation. (even if I can't spell it)

Having said that, I have to disagree, Velvet, vets (in my area of Kentucky) will NOT see chickens. I argued with the receptionist at the vets office for 20 minutes, until she went to see the vet, and they still told me they wouldn't treat a chicken.

Between West Nile and Avian flu the vets around here say "NO!" to poultry. I couldn't even get worm medicine when I had a stray rooster puking/passing worms all over my horses. I was lucky to have a friend at the feed store who found some for me.

So I can empathize with Marbles. Sometimes you are just stuck with home remedies, and after a time, it's best to let the poor animal go. Or help it go.

I've had some hard lessons from my animals over the years. Let's chalk it up to the school of hard knocks. It's more important to share information than to be angry or upset ABOUT the information.

Recall the saying: do not judge another until you've walked a mile in their shoes.

Merry Christmas!
Kitty

Thank you for your support, Kitty. Merry Christmas!

miss kitty. I couldn't have said it better. Well done.

Stacy

marbles_n_the_garden wrote: "One cat I found had been hit, and each end of its body was trying to run in different directions. I figured it had a spinal injury, and wouldn't make it. I took it to the vet, posted for the owner, and found a home for him when no-one came forward. he is very happy, and only occasionally awkward."

Sounds like you've had a lot of experience working with many kinds of animals.

The story above, reminds me of a time when we were visiting a small college town and witnessed a cat get run over. It had a small rodent in its mouth and was waiting to cross a very busy street. Unfortunately, it got hit by a truck. The poor thing was flopping around and it was obvious it had a spinal injury. We had just parked to go to dinner, but no one else was interested in helping it so my spouse and I did.

We had to get it out of the street first without getting bitten, so we unfolded a map and used a jacket to pull the cat onto this. It was garbage day and the trash collectors had already been by so we 'borrowed' an empty plastic bin to put the cat in. We asked someone where the nearest vets office was. Took a few minutes to get there and of course it figures they were closed. We tried another place, a local cat rescue shelter. Same thing. Arrgh! I was ready to look for a hunter who could put the poor thing out of its misery.

It was REALLY frustrating trying to get help for this poor animal when we didn't know the area or where else we should take it, so we finally called the police. They said to bring the cat to the station and they would call the animal warden to take care of it. Since we didn't know where the police dept was, we saw a UPS driver at a gas station and got directions from him.

After this harrowing experience, we were no longer in the mood for dinner. Got a couple stiff drinks instead!

We learned a few things from this experience. One, if you are in an unfamiliar area, your best bet for helping an injured animal is to call the police FIRST. If you don't know how to find a vets office or even the police dept, ask a delivery person or someone else who knows the area. We have a first aid kit in the car as well as an extra blanket or two, just in case.

I also enjoy most of the magazines you mentioned. Especially Countryside. Nice to read stories about people who have bought their 'piece of paradise' and how they built it up, etc.

Thanks for sharing the stories about all the animals you've worked with. Be interesting to know what one can do to help an animal when one is not near a vet and its obvious that is not going to make it. What would you do? We don't carry firearms when we travel, because so many states have stiff laws regarding them so you know how that goes.

Boy, I'm new here, but it sounds like you cannot come here for advice without getting flamed--what a shame!

no..no..doninalas,this is a great site and a wonderful place to live and learn from. Don't let this discourage you from visiting this site...I love everyone here even though once in a while someone gets upset or angry at someone else...we're all human here and all make mistakes. This really is my favorite place to come to after a long day to see what everyone else is experiencing that same day. some are happy,some are sad, some have awsome advice,some have hard words...the fact is that no-one here is perfect,and we all are in the same boat one way or another..needing a little compliment or advice,sometimes just wanting to vent. Thats what I love about this place,I somehow can call it my second home :)
Merry Christmas to all of you...and I hope everyone has a safe,warm holiday season...my best to you all xo Beeliz

Quite the dramatic thread here. But, it would be nice to try to give marbles some direction to look for what happened. I'll throw out some random, maybe farfetched thoughts and maybe it will stimulate more knowledgeable chicken people to make some good suggestions.

Maybe the chicken had the chicken version of mad cow disease? (First ever recorded). Could it have contracted rabies? The prior "slowness" might have been unrelated other than the behavior made it more likely she would come in contact with a rabid animal.

Could it have had ear mites or something that way? If something interfered with the inner ear, it could cause balance and other problems that looked like brain damage.

Could it have had either a mineral toxicity or deficiency? Some minerals can manifest themselves as neurological problems. Her genetic makeup could have predisposed her to sensitivity to certain minerals which normally wouldn't create a toxicity or deficiency in chickens at the levels present in her food.

Sheep get a progressive ovine pheumonia which happens over time, below the neck the animal looks fine, but above the neck it looks about 100 years old. Do chickens have this type of disease?

Maybe she had a brain worm? If she was previously allowed to run loose around the country, could she have gotten something up her nose that festered its way to her brain over time? Could she once have been shot with a bb gun or a small wire that worked slowly inwards?

I would lean towards the ear mites, mineral toxicity or deficiency, or something causing chronic and worsening brain damage. In any case, putting her down given her worsening condition was probably the humane thing to do so she wouldn't suffer. Good luck.

I had a hen just 'give up' last spring. I thought she might be egg-bound, but didn't feel a 'lump.' I force fed her a bit of olive oil, just a few drops. She lived for several days, but never stood up, she ate and pooped.

That was when I got on the phone to the vets and was told just to 'cull' her. I threw a bit of a fit on the phone, but was told that the office 'didn't service poultry'.

What I found the most frustrating is that I'd had a good vet who I could go to with poultry questions, but he stopped working as a full time vet. He's mostly a dairy farmer now. He's really hard to get a hold of.

Marbles, I have been staying out of this, in hopes that emotions would die down, and the thread peter out, but since the thread seems to be continuing, I will post my 2 cents worth. Let me begin by saying I don't keep hens, although I have friends who do, and I have thought about it, but have too many roaming dogs, as well as 'coons, coyotes and fox, so decided to give it a miss. I have kept horses (professionally) as well as cats and dogs, have one brother
who is a large animal (equine) vet in VT, and do a lot of reading on animal health, etc., so have some basic animal health knowledge, if none specific to hens.

While you KNOW your background, and the exact care your hen got for the 2 years you had her, the readers here on the Forum could only, initially, go by what you posted. While it became obvious, with your subsequent posts, that you DO have a good knowledge of hens, and do take good care of your animals, from the tone of the initial post, you and your family came across as a little uncaring, since "Winter" and her behavior seemed to be cause for amusement, more than concern. You said "She continued to behave rather stupidly, and much of it was comical--sometimes it was dangerous", and while you wrote about fetching her from the rain, and having lightning hit a post nearby, your attitude seemed, to me, to be more of aggravation than caring - and I am sure she WAS aggravating, as well as endearing, but the endearment doesn't come through.

I am very aware that you did a LOT for her as she deteriorated, but couldn't help getting the impression that her decline was perhaps a bit drawn out, although you didn't give a time frame, since it seems that it took months rather than weeks for Winter to go from walking stiffly to not being able to cope at all. And I know from experience that with animals you see every day, and especially prey animals, it's VERY hard to tell how fast they are going downhill. I think Velvet's initial post, which was harsh, may have been prompted by her perception of your post as I also saw it, slightly uncaring, ignoring a problem for a long period, to then do everything you could think of, in the end, as if to make up for past neglect. I don't know that, and I can't speak for her, but offer that as a possible explanation of her tone. With subsequent posts, it became obvious that this was an incorrect impression, but that was my initial one, based solely on what I read and you wrote.

We all have bad days, and because Velvet has been posting here for longer than I have been reading GW Forums, and because she has always been caring and helpful, can you manage to write off her response, and the subsequent animosities, on all parts, as being a momentary aberration? I hope you will continue to post here. I also hope you will realize that people can advise you only on the basis of what THEY know that you know - I think we all have run into posts where the OP did not give enough background, and got very basic, or even incorrect advice, when that wasn't what they wanted. I think it comes down to, as Miss Kitty said, the fact that the emotions behind the written words don't come through, and more or less can be read into them than was meant by the writer!

Enough said, a belated welcome to GW, and may I wish you a very Merry Holidays, and an extremely Happy New Year?!?

Happy Holidays everyone. Looking forward to a New Year with a new start for everyone!

Basically, Winter was Winter. We loved her as she was--quite seemingly dumb. This dumbness lead to many funny things, and a couple of dangerous ones. She was well--but different--the whole time we had her. Each hen has her own personality, and Winter was crabby toward the other hens. We don't cull because someone doesn't play well. Her body was very healthy the whole time we had her--up until the end. Because of the danger the "dumbness" got her into, we always expected her to be the next to go. She never was.

We got most of our chickens as other people's cast-offs: old. Our flock is mostly 5-6 year olds. They were going to be food, but we took them and are allowing them to enjoy the rest of their existence. Winter was a little "stiff" in the mornings as old folks often are. I believe she was older than the other chickens, but she was not given to me directly by the people who had her.

I have an Amish pen-pal, and wrote quite a lot about Winter in my letters questioning if it was age. My friend said it sounded most like she was quite old. I also checked with other chicken people, and researched in many books about her stiff gait in the morning. I figured it was stiffness because she wasn't like that all day--she had to warm up some.

Our farmer neighbor thought she may be visually impaired because she had difficulty finding her way in at night. We had a couple of hens that liked to stay out late. Winter was the only one who had difficulty with orientation after dusk.

She was well for 2 years. The last week and a half, there was a "change in status". She seemed tired. I watched her for a few of days like that, and she didn't deteriorate as such. One morning, another chicken went after her at the food trough, and she didn't look good to me that morning. I brought her inside, and started nursing her. She had 9-lives, so I figured I should feed her and try to bring her around. She rallied after a couple of days: standing up, eating, and pooping just right. She filled her crop up and everything. Great! I assumed she was on the mend, and we beat it. After a couple/few days of improvement, she took a turn, and I gave her a day to see if she would rally again. After a day like that (twirling, and responding to outside stimuli as if she were falling), I knew she was done. The farmer was unavailable that day, and took care of it the next.

Time line: 2 years good. Some time as a stiff ol' girl that went away as the day passed, and a week and a half in "hospital" in my home.

I am sorry I was unclear when I first posted, but I was so depressed my writing was confusing--I'll admit that. Having had 2 head injuries in my family, she seemed like something was wrong in the hind brain. I know that cannot be fixed, so we let her live her life as long as she got herself up, and ate, we didn't mind helping an ol' girl down out of her box each morning. She enjoyed being held and her time inside where it was warm. She never laid many eggs, and this summer it was only a couple--I think she was maybe 8 years old or something.

I can say with confidence that it wasn't an organism. Nobody else has it, and it did not track as an invading organism. Also, had I continued to feed her--even in her dizzy state, I believe her body would have gone on, and on. She was physically sound. Her brain was out of order. Looking back, her stiffness may have been the beginnings of brain deterioration. Had a vet told me her brain was going months earlier, and said that she was otherwise sound, I still would have let her live as long as she was her crabby & dumb self. That was her "status". We use the dumb as a term of endearment believe it or not--that is why we can say it was amusing. I still would have let her live until such a time that the twirling came a long and her mind seemed completely gone.

My time line may be of a day in either direction, but there was no cruelty or neglect. Our chickens are spoiled. Their house rarely even has an odor. Some of them step out of the flock and come to us when we call them by name. I do appreciate the input here that attempts to help find answers. I was wondering if this is something that occurs in chickens, or was specific to Winter either through stroke, injury, or old age.

It would be nice if "exotic pets" covered chickens. It seems more to mean "tropical pets" rather than pets other than cats & dogs, and maybe the occasional bunny. As birds go, chickens are hardy, and you can work with them TO A POINT. Birds have a far more delicate constitution than dogs or cats, and (hyperbole here) if you look at them cross-eyed they can drop dead. If there were vets who would investigate chickens as pets, I believe the books on chickens would be much better.

I hope everyone has a Happy New Year, and had a great Christmas.
Robin

well i think you are great for caring so much for winter. most farmers i know would have just grab the chicken up and rung its neck. which you might say is the human thing to do but is it. animals all over including humans have to go thu death and i dont see anyone saying we should put a human down. i think you have a big heart and your oonpasion shows that you are a very kind person. and the person that said take it to a vet!!! must be rollin in money. dang you know how much a vet bill would have cost. i think you did what you thought was right and doing so i know that you made the right choice. you are a lot kinder person than i.

Thanks so much pokeberry!

I still miss her.