Dave Wilson likes to inspire clients to plant 4 trees in a hole to take the space of 1. I often plant 2 and feel foolish for not grafting different varieties on 1 tree. I really have to work on my stonefruit grafting tech.

I suggest maybe Coral Star and Earnies Choice, although I'm not qualified to make suggestions in your climate. John Boy and Loring are wonderful peaches here, but they are not good with late frosts. I also like Encore for a fairly late peach (gots some acid to go with that sugar).

Madison is pretty good and does help frost matters with its extended bloom. Here it is extremely reliable, but there are slightly better tasting peaches, including the first 4 I mentioned.

Does anyone grow Lady Nancy out west? Its buds aren't great for hardiness but it is the best white peach I've ever tasted and I've tasted quite a few. I hate those Zeiger low acid types- just so you know where my taste perspective comes from. If I want corn-sugar sweetness I'll buy a candy bar (or pick a plum).

I liked Surecrop when I grew it in Amarillo. It once had a dozen peaches after two nights in a row of 13F at full bloom. I would think as much in terms of bud hardiness to spring frost as I would about late bloom.

Didn't much care for the fruit on Madison.

You might think about a nectarine although the selection of hardy types is way less than peaches. I love Zaiger's low-acid, yellow-fleshed nectarines not just because they are very sweet but because they have the best flavor of any fruit I've ever eaten. Low acid doesn't have to mean low flavor. Your mileage can and likely will vary. But I've never liked Zaiger's low-acid, white-fleshed peaches; neither ones I've grown nor the ones in CA. I cann't seem to grow the low-acid, yellow-fleshed peaches in my greenhouse but know they can be superb. So I think it's all, or largely, in the growing conditions.

Denver growing conditions won't be like Palisade/Grand Junction but there is a lot of info there if you can tap into it. They claim to grow the worlds best peaches. Mostly they grow the old standards that made their reputation, but that is changing. I cann't dispute their claims of #1 but always wonder just how they're so sure.

The Fruitnut

Milehigh,

I know one I would remove from your list - Reliance. I removed it from my orchard last fall. Small, soft, somewhat stringy, flavor fair, poor color. I just don't see any reason to grow it unless your in a marginal peach area.

Just curious, why are you considering getting rid of Cresthaven, or PF24C? Are there quality problems with them?

I have yet to taste the fruit of any of my trees. Mostly I am thinking of replacing Saturn, but on the other hand I have heard it is delicious and hardy. How much earlier than the others does it bloom?

I would love to try Ernie's Choice and Lady Nancy but they are only rated a 6 on AC Nursery's hardiness scale. We did get to -20 this year.

So, would Encore or Laurol be better for my super-late variety?

Ooh, that's pretty cold. Bottom of zone 5. Cold hardiness may be your first consideration. Looks like your list has a lot of cold hardy stuff on it. If you haven't already done so, you may check out Schlabach's nursery. Peaches he carries are cold hardy. I definitely wouldn't get rid of 24C. Know of a commercial grower in the Chicago area, who one year, lost all his peach crop, except 24c, which had full crops.

13 degrees and open peach blossums survived? I'd like to see you run that one by any plant breeder. Never seen an open peach, apple, plum, or pear blossum survive below about 26. Am I missing something here? I thought peach blossum hardiness was based on time of flowering not on actual blossum hardiness.

Saturn is a pretty nice tasting white as grown here- I haven't tried the low acid yellows so I can't comment on them really. I do like yellows with some acid.

If I was you, I'd try to find some orchardists in your area because you have a very special climate with unpredictable weather. Local help is what you really need.

milehighgirl it was great talking to you the other day on the phone.. I think people are right for a low temp type.. BUT!,, as I briefly touched on one other issue you might want to think about..
Your main concern is late frost that could ruin your bloom/budds... you might want to think about adding a overhead sprinkler system.. only for frost protection not irrigation.. We did this back in the late 70's early 80's in our orchards.. during the days when you start having budd swell but still cold temps run the overheads, this will cause ice to form on the tree and keep the tree in a dormant state longer, thus delaying your bloom and reducing the chance of late frost that would ruin your bloom set..

When we got to below -20, which has only happened once in the last 20 years in my area, the peach crop was pretty much wiped out. Madison and Reliance failed to crop on my property and most of the other orchards I manage as did everything else. Sites made a difference more than varieties.

The difference between the most winter cold resistatnt varieties and the most tender is rather slight- just a few degrees. In twenty years on my current site I've never realized any advantage of my tough varieties over the tender ones for winter fruit bud hardiness. In home orchards the value of this toughness is not always very important if it only means an extra crop every 15 years at best. In a commercial orchard a single crop failure can be a disaster.

I have heard of a few obscure peach varieties that allegedly give you an extra zone in hardiness, as far as survival goes but I don't think Madison and Reliance fall into this category. Midwestern nurseries sometimes tout a variety of exceptional toughness.

I hope your winter temps don't fall below -18 on a regular basis. I assume it's a rarity or you wouldn't call yours a Z5.

We don't get to -20 but once a decade or so. I don't have actual statistics though. 25 years ago we had a two week period where we didn't get above 0, but that is very rare. I've heard that peach trees should be considered more like tomato plants than anything else.

I have a little space on the north side of my house, nested between my neighbors garage, which I feel will be well protected. I guess time will tell. I was going to put them on the south side of my house, but I've read quite a few posts in regard to that faulty thinking!

I'd really like to find a Harrow Diamond but can't find one anywhere. Any ideas?

harvestman: You'll note I said the tree had a few peaches after two nights at 13F. I can only assume this was a few of the flowers that weren't open yet. In my experience closed flowers are much hardier than open ones. Surecrop is known for hardiness of it's flowers in the spring. This is a trait that breeders select for esp in places like NC where spring freezes are a problem. I second your idea that extra hardy types, whether for winter freeze or spring frost, only help rarely. The differences are only a few degrees protection. I'd be more inclined to select on fruit quality than hardiness.

But the only way to find out is to try a lot of cultivars and see what works and what fruit you like. But I would select some for quality, not just for hardiness. I've tried things like Reliance. After you get some fruit you wonder why you went to all that trouble.

The Fruitnut

Are you guys telling me that I should take a chance on Ernie's Choice, Lady Nancy, O'Henry and maybe even Silver Logan?

O'Henry may be too late. But yes I'd try some hardy highest quality you can find, but also some based just on quality. I've found that half of what I try I don't like no matter the source or recommemdation. You will find some good ones since you are trying a lot. I never hesitate to remove one that isn't working and try something else.

For whatever the reason the stuff I'm growing now, mostly Zaigers out of CA, is the best fruit by far I've ever grown. Maybe it's the cultivars, maybe it's my greenhouse environment, maybe I'm a little better grower, or all three. Half or less of what I've tried of Zaiger's is really great in my current conditions. Growing really high quality fruit is much harder than it might seem. People who see my setup think everything should be great every year with no bugs or pests. I just smile and keep showing them around.

The Fruitnut

I agree with fruitnut as far as trying both hardy varieties and ones just known for quality but your site is a mystery to me as far as the frequency of hard frosts at blossum time. I'm thinking that they must be common there.
I continue to suggest you find some local growers for advice.

I would take Fruitnuts specific varietal recs with some caution as everone has differnet tastes and more importantly, his location is nothing like yours. The Zaiger products are often poor performers in cooler climates with terrible winter bud hardiness. I once managed an estate orchard with scores of selections from Dave Wilson nursery-mostly Zaiger stuff and even though things like the pluots would blossum every spring and be buzzing with pollinators they never bore worth a damn. Check Adams County Nursery for some low acid stuff that is more cold hardy if you are intrigued by Fruitnuts high endorsement.

Paul Friday peaches and the Stellar series come from Michigan. I would look to those peaches before the Cali peaches of Zaiger.
Also consider older varieties like Veteran or Contender or ...they usually aren't as good but have survived all these years for some reason. Must be a reason. Cold?
I don't like Saturn. Others taste better and provide more fruit to eat.
You must plant Gloria. G-L-O-R-I-A, Gloooria!

MHO

Has anyone tried Vivid?

I think I'm more confused than ever. I have waited so long to make these decisions that now I can't find any Harrow Diamond, Raritan Rose, or Silver Logan.

Last night all I dreamt about was looking for peach trees.

milehigh,

i'm with olpea and geraldo regarding your pf24c. the best fruit i had last year was hands down those flamin' furys'. am not absolute sure if i had a pf-007 or a pf24c , i'm suspecting it may have been the pf-007 as the fruit was as huge as it's taste. based on my 1 sampling i'd almost buy 1 tree of the whole series to cover me from early to late.

i do know another soul who planted 1 locally here , but it's a new tree and hasn't fruited yet. if i didn't have so much going on with a recent score of 17 varieties of apple scions and quite possibly that many of pears i'd go out of my way to plant 1. not to mention a mulberry,persimmon and quince, just don't need anything else to water. next year 4 sure.

wildlifeman

Adam's County Nursery caries Rariton Rose. Get a copy of Fruit, Berry and Nut Inventory published by Seedsavers. It has the best info about varieties and sources for a wide range of fruit- probably a thousand peaches.

Your confusion can't be solved here. Peaches perform differently from site to site but just about any tree ripened peach is wonderful. I grow Harrow Diamond and it's a good early peach but not of the same richness and melting texture of prim-time varieties. It is also a lousey growing tree that doesn't generate adequate new wood from the center of the tree. After about 10 years it developes a pretty bad form unless you're very attentive and savvy.

harvestman, I think you are right. This is going to be trial and error, and it may take me many years to figure it out. I think I'm just gonna jump in and see what happens.

Unfortunately Adams County Nursery is out of Raritan Rose for this year.

I do have one more question: Which type of tree should I give the most sheltered position to: cherry, apricot, or peach? It seems that cherry and apricot can handle cold better than peach, but I want to make sure.

Try Boyer Nurseries, they may still have some varieties you want. They are a good outfit from my experience.

Scott

Scott, Boyers is out too.

I did find Raritan Rose at White River Source and Rich Farm Garden. Has anyone heard of these companies?

Apricots are my most difficult tree. They flower over a weeek before either peaches and cherries and are the first trees to die in any orchard I manage- they really need a good site.

I grow mostly Hargrand and Harlayne.

MHG, I don't think those two places are very reputable but check Garden Watchdog to be sure.

You may not be able to get every variety that you want but there are still plenty of good places with stock I expect. For example try Cummins, C&O (a major wholesaler but they sell to individuals), Vaughn nursery (they have a ton of peach varieties and I think they still sell to individuals), etc.

Scott

I just got the Cumberland Valley catalog. I think I will just order the cold-hardy, high-chill varieties that they carry and start with that. They have Surecrop, Garnet Beauty, Challenger, Nectar, Intrepid, Contender, Ruston Red, Belle of Georgia, China Pearl, Carolina Gold, and Monroe. I can also get O'Henry and Coronet from them to be a little daring. (Coronet is the daughter of one of the best peaches I've eaten, Dixigem, from the Willamette Valley in Oregon)

The 3-4' trees are $7.05 each, plus 30% shipping. It just seems like an inexpensive way to get my feet wet.

Sound good?

To me that sounds like a plan. If they fall through try Vaughns, they are a nursery in the same town with similar varieties.

Scott

I'd be warry of those big cheap Tennesee nurseries. If you're only buying 5 trees why not get something with some size? For me a 3/4 to 7/8 diameter tree tends to bear a year sooner than the 1/4 inch things you're likely to get. I'm curious how Cumberland is rated- maybe check it out.

Cumbeland Valley is located in the same City (McMinnville) as Autumn Ridge nursery, and everyone knows how bad that nursery is even though it is cheap. I would be VERY careful of ordering "cheap" trees from them, I did and they turned out to be not cheap at all.

Also I seen flowers on my peach tree after -30 so it is possible.

When I have searched this site for references for Cumberland Valley the responses have always been positive. I understand that the city/county they are in is known as the "nursery capital"; there are in fact lots of nurseries in that area. I'm thinking that distance from one nursery to the other does not necessarily mean they have associated business practices.

Dave's Garden watchdog does not mention Cumberland Valley. It does list several that are in McMinnville TN, however. All of the ones that are associated with Autumn Ridge are rated horribly, but the others have good ratings.

I very much appreciate your concern!

Any one else that's dealt with Cumberland Valley please chime in!

I wonder how peach flowers could survive anywhere at -30 when my experience and reading has always put the critical line at a bit above -20. People always say be careful about claims made on the internet but I find both assertions here about extraordinary hardiness difficult to dismiss. Am I gullible or is life just full of unpredictable and miraculous occurences? Or both?

I have ordered from Vaughns several times and have been happy of the quality for the price. They were a bit smaller than trees from the best places, but more in the 1/2-3/4" caliper range not wimpy 1/4"ers. I have never ordered from Cumberland.

Scott

It is pretty normal for us to get to -30 at least a couple times a year. The trees did have flowers on them but no fruit came from them. Last year I didnt get any flowers, but we had alot colder spring, so I was hoping that was the reason. I have asked on here before if a tree can still flower but be damaged because of the cold. Or if it was damaged because of the cold it just wouldnt flower at all?? I am still hoping that since I did get flowers that one spring that it is still possible to someday get peaches!

I doubt you will ever get peaches on any but warm years. If I lived where you are, I'd train the trees about a foot above the ground and cover with leaves right before severe weather unless early snow had done the job.

Damaged flowers can open and apparently even attract bees but not produce fruit- I suspect the female parts have more water so the cells rupture more easily- but that's just a layman's theory. I know leaf buds are much hardier than flower buds but a test winter will probably kill your trees if they're unprotected. Around -35 should do the job.

Someone else mentioned plywood shelters as a solution in your zone- That might be more servicable than my horizontal tree idea.

Do what I do for my figs and pomegranates -- cover them in aluminum bubble insulation! It is an extremely good insulator and the ground heat will come up and warm the tree quite a bit. I find that at 20F outside it is 25F under my cover, and at 0F its more like 10F under the cover (twice as much improvement). At -30F I would guess it would be around -10F under such a cover. I use ground staples to hold the cover firmly to the ground. Note that the complete wind protection also helps with hardiness.

Scott

What if you painted the bubble wrap black to store more heat in the soil during day? And what do you use for a sturdy frame- the trees themselves?

If it was black it would come out of dormancy too early in the warm spells. It would certainly help on the freezing but sunny days to be black. I use the trees for the frame.

Scott

Scott,

Do you have pictures of your technique? I'd love to do this!

BTW: I called Cumberland Valley today to make sure they had what I wanted. Well, they do, but they only have 12-24" trees left ($4.95). I think I'll go ahead and order some from them. At least I know what to expect. I'll also order some decent sized trees from AC and Cummins.

Has anyone dealt with Grandpa's Orchard? They are listed on Garden Watchdog but there are no opinions posted yet.

mile high,

i have never purchased anything myself from grandpas orchard, the "soul" with a pf24c peach i mentioned in an earlier post got her tree from them. she did buy some other fruit trees as well and she was absolutely thrilled with the trees themselves as well as customer service. she recommended them " wholeheartedly".

grandpas orchard is the retail side of mosers wholesale nursery here in washington to the best of my knowledge, if you should wish to check out their website as well.

as for a pf-24c peach for myself i just ordered 1 for a 2010 spring delivery from van wells. they were sold out for this year but i have plenty going on this season anyway.

wildlifeman

Cummins is excellent in several ways, but providing juiced up, large diameter trees is not one of them. They do know about colder weather and of course Jim is a world authority on rootstocks. This is one of those sources where love of fruit trees got them in the business.

I like free-standing trees and prefer 111 rootstock over M7 because they grow better and often anchor better as well. If Cummins could propigate more G30, another rootstock I like, I would put up with smaller trees and buy some of my antiques from them. I tend to order from Trees of Antiquity when I need something unusual because they propigate a lot on 111 and sell somewhat larger trees than Cummins.

Cummins doesn't have a great peach selection but they are geared towards cold-hardy. I've never purchased any from them- only plums and they were quite small. This is something I'll put up with if the varieties are unavailable elsewhere.

Cummins is excellent in several ways, but providing juiced up, large diameter trees is not one of them.

This is what I have learned from Cummins, too. If I order from Cummins in the future I will buy pretty much the largest trees they have. Also I haven't found those small trees to take off the way I want.

I have gotten some pretty big trees from Cummins. But maybe it was just what I was ordering (French cider apples which were not selling very well I expect). Even the smallest trees were bigger than 12-24"ers. Trees of Antiquity I would agree is the very best.

MHG, here is a picture of some covered figs that I took a year ago:

{{gwi:60489}}

I use a stapler to "stitch" together the sheets and I use ground staples to firmly attach it to the ground (a staple every 6" to 1' or so around the bottom). The rope cinch on the outside makes sure the cover will stay on in high winds. You can't see but inside the cover I use rope to pull the limbs in to allow a smaller cover. It took me a couple hours to make this cover and it takes 20 minutes to put it on and 20 minutes to take it off. It probably cost me about $50 worth of insulation; it has lasted four years and looks to be able to make it to about ten. I bought a new roll this winter from a guy on eBay selling slightly dented rolls for half price -- worked out great.

All that said, if I lived in your climate I would probably just grow hardy varieties of peaches.

Scott

I am wondering why certain varieties were not listed.

Why weren't Early Elberta, Elberta and Flamin Fury lucky 13 considered? These are three of the best peaches for flavor, or are most people concerned more about shipability and color than flavor?

I do have one question concerning Early Elberta. I have two zone listing for Early Elberta, one says zone 7 and another says Zone 5. Which is correct?

I have become interested in Lucky 13, which is why I asked about Grandpa's Orchard. I would like to get Lucky 13 and Rising Star from Grandpa's.

Cummins had a complete peach tree failure so the ones they have now are from AC. Cummins has a few that AC is out of now, though.

I was very happy with the trees I got from Cummins and would not hesitate to order from either them or Trees of Antiquity. I did NOT like the trees I got from Stark Bros.!

Scott,

That looks like that could do the trick, but I am not very handy and am sure I couldnt make that work, Plus I think my trees are bigger than that right now. Wish I could think of ides like that!

Harvestman,

Well I guess I will find out if the trees live we already hit -35 once this year. This was a experiment and if they die, I wont being trying it again!

Troman, let us know.

I bought a PF24c peach tree from Grandpa's Orchard last year (2008). It appears to have survived the harsh winter here just east of St. Paul, MN. My Contender peach that I purchased elsewhere does not look like it survived, although it wasn't doing that well at the end of last summer already. I don't have my hopes too high for blossoms on the PF24c this year, but time will tell. Jan

I ordered a PF24C from Vanwell Nursery last year, it looks like it is trying to come out of hibernation! I have two contender peach trees and I cant tell if they made it this year or not. My Reliance looks like it is trying to bud also. Have you seen any green yet Jan?