In the two or three yrs I've frequented this forum, I can recall only a single recommendation for a Stark's exclusive; believe that was for Stark Blushing Golden apple. They've been selling some of these varieties for many yrs. If they were good, I think we would have heard more by now. I planted some of them 30 yrs ago. My impression is they are all about marketing hype.

I will admit that the recent catalog that I looked at in detail had more standard cultivars and less of their exclusives. They have maybe also toned down the hype a notch or two. I haven't ordered from them in some time. Their trees were always of good quality when I did order.

The Fruitnut

Stark Bros are superior to many other catalogue saturation nurseries in my opinion, probably becuase they serve the commercial industry as well. However most of the trees I planted that I ordered from them decades ago have long since met the ax. Their info is flawed because they don't bother to provide it in a fine-tuned regional way. They are only knowledgeable about performance in the mid-West.

If you order from them armed with your own info, you should be fine.

I would agree with harvestman and his view on Stark Bros. All but one of their exclusive varieties that I have tried over the years is still growing in my orchard. All the others fell to the axe. At the same time so have many other regular varieties as I try many but only keep the best of the best under my conditions.

Speaking of potted plants from Stark, I was very pleased with the potted Pawpaws I got from Stark this past spring. Nicely rooted compared to two I got from Millers in pots that were not.

You might want to try Bay Laurel Nursery for a more complete selection of Dave Wilson trees. Also Raintree Nursery as well. I ordered from both this fall to get the selection of apricots and plums I was looking for. Also I recommend Cummins nursery in New York especially if you are looking for many rootstock choices for apples.

Proceed with David Wilson's cultivars with caution if they are varieties not grown commercially in your area. Most of Zaigers selections perform poorly here in the northeast except some of the peaches which I don't much like anyway. They are for people addicted to high-fructose corn syrup. (just kidding sortof)

I have always had success with anything I've ordered from Stark Brothers. They tend to have varieties that are not well suited for my climate, so I need to be careful in my selections. I have given away as a hostess gift to close family, Stark's Starkrimmsion Cherry. All have reported that they felt it was a superior cherry. I wish I could grow it here.

On the other hand, Zaiger's varieties seem to be ideally suited for my climate. I have several of his peaches as well as an Apricot and Aprium. I'm willing to try most anything he releases. I'm trying to get his low chill cherries right now.

I've only bought from Stark and local. IMO Stark beats the locals (where ever they get them from), even the locals that carry Stark tags, I think because of the timed shipping vs having bare root shoved into a pot for a month or three.

I don't know how exclusive they really are but I'm sold on Starkspur apples. I'm sure other spur types are comparable except that my Starkspur Arkansas Black is not the cardboard apple many around here describe and I think has been determined the cardboard ones are J-spur from another nursery. In fact at a Christmas party cider I made with only that apple was said to be the best people had ever tasted.

Another exclusive (Starkspur Cortland, I assume it's exclusive, they held the patent and I've never seen it offered anywhere else by another name) is going strong after 20 years.

Lodi is an exclusive that some like better than Yellow Transparent and some don't. I won't be able to comment for about 5 years.

My grafted "Butternut" is a Stark exclusive that does it's job impressively.

I just realized I've never got a pie cherry from Stark. I guess they're too readily available and cheap locally, they bear so quickly I kind of look at them as temporaries.

Starking Delicious pear is supposedly identical to Maxine, a good pear considering its resistance or tolerance to fireblight.

I too was impressed by the quality of the grafted containerized pawpaw I received. They (or their supplier) really seems to have pawpaws down pat, being notably better than even most specialty nurseries.

myk1:Lodi is an exclusive
I think you know Lodi is not exclusive and must have been thinking of something else.
I grow cherries, peaches and apples commercially and I don't even receive the Stark's catalog. I did receive it for years, but there was never anything in there that I wanted or could not get locally. Cummins is mo betta for the antiques and the big Washington State and Cali nurseries are better for cherries and soft fruit. Stark's is one of those nurseries that renames popular varieties like it is theirs exclusively. I am not sure but I think Starkrimson cherry is just Lapins. Might be wrong. Anyway I know that Starkrimson is not a cherry variety. And apples like spur Cortland can often be inferior to the main variety.

According to Stark Lodi is an exclusive, that is what I meant.

"Stark's is one of those nurseries that renames popular varieties like it is theirs exclusively."
Which is what I meant by not knowing how exclusive they really are.
Starkspur is their trademark so anything they name Starkspur gets their exclusive tag whether they own it or not.

I noticed they have a Starkspur Montmorency, the Montmorency I got from Lowes seems to be a spur type, or at least it bears a lot heavier than the one it replaced.

No matter how much people on this forum don't like them, nobody can deny that for as small of a business as it is Stark has been a mover and shaker in the world of apples for a very long time.

Here is a link that might be useful: Stark Lodi with the exclusive button

Thanks for confirming my impression that Starks was reputable, but that most (all?) of their exclusive offerings are not any better than those available from other reputable sources. I'll think I'll stick with my original order (but will also read up on some of the varieties mentioned above). I'd consider their pawpaws, but I'm holding out for some of Peterson's.

Regarding the Dave Wilson stock, I agree that you do need to do your research regarding non-CA suitability. I like some tartness, so I've shied away from their many sub-acid offerings. I also highly recommend Peaceful Valley for DW stock. They have a limited selection (and no rootstock choices), but if you like their offered rootstocks, they provide very robust stock for a very reasonable price (18.99 a tree if you order 5 with a flat shipping fee of $30 for a box that holds up to 10 trees).

Some of their exclusives definitely are their own.
Read up on the blight attacking butternuts and you'll find Starks grafted butternut hybrid mentioned. So at least they're not just someone who buys scions and matches them to rootstocks, they actually do some of their own creations still.

myk1,

Do have any of their nut trees that you recommend? I've got a Kwik-crop Black Walnut from Edible Landscaping (EL) and I've noticed that EL stocks a number of their pecans, as well (which I take as being a recommendation from EL, at least with regard to disease resistence).

I've already got an Arkansas Black from another source (hopefully not the "cardboard" variety) or I'd consider adding one to my order. You mentioned your Starkspur Cortland was still going strong. What's your opinion of the taste? All the catalog says about the variety is that it is productive and pretty.

Thanks,
djofnelson

I only have the Bountiful Butternut for a nut, I'm going wild for hickories.
It's been forever since I've had a real butternut so the comparison isn't side by side but I think they taste like real butternuts from what I remember, I still like them better than walnuts at least.
The tree is very nice for what I wanted. It's spreading more than upright like I remember the wild trees being so it gives my house plenty of shade.
And it did bear in the first 5 years. Now it puts out enough that the squirrels are always in it and I still get enough for myself.

It's hard to say if my Cortland is the same flavor as what they offer now. I imagine the spur type getting misshapened so easily is why they stopped selling it.
It's like McIntosh in flavor with more smell, you can really smell the apples when you're near the tree. It doesn't brown just like they claim. And it doesn't cook as soft as McIntosh in a pie, but soft enough that I still use it for pie.

Ah, but Cortlandt doesn't have the Mac crunch or aroma. They both suck in storage unless you like raw sauce. Neither make my top 40 but I like dense fleshed and complex apples.

McIntosh is my favorite.
Cortland is crunchier than my McIntosh. That's part of the reason I like McIntosh better. It's one of the few apples I like fresh.

Here in the former Mac capitol of the world the Mac crunch doesn't refer to crispness, it is a breaking cruch that is unique to Mac. Honeycrisp picked up some of it as did Macoun but in my opinion Cortlandt did not. Cortlandt is sweeter and a very nice apple that many prefer to Mac but let's keep this crunch thing straight. Macintosh deserves its due, it's a dissappearing strain soon to be an heirloom. Of course, you could say the same of Cortlandt.

Maybe you have too much heat there to properly grow Macintosh.

Lodi apples have been and are grown by many nurseries. For instance, Van Well Nursery of Washington State sells Lodi apple. What is exclusive is STARK Lodi, like they have some special strain of Lodi apple. I have an exclusive apple that is called Geraldo's Lodi. It is an exclusive and no has or can provide you with Geraldo's Lodi, but Geraldo. If you want Geraldo's Lodi you have to buy it from me. I also have Exclusive Geraldo's Heavy Duty Tilton Apricot and Exclusive Geraldo's Deluxe and Super Italian prune. You can't get those from anyone but Geraldo. Of course you can get Tiltons and Italian prunes from someone else, but they won't be Exclusive Geraldos.
Don't you see how crazy that is?
Starks went bankrupt in the early 1980s and were then bought by someone. They have not had continual ownership over the years. In the early 1980s they started selling an extra early Fuji. I know a man who bought enough of the trees to plant, I think it was, 160 acres. A few years later the Pac NW Fruit Tester's Association looked at the apple and said,"That is nothing more than Senshu, an old Japanese apple that has long been discarded as inferior and not worth planting". What had happened was that a man in Oregon found an "early Fuji" and contacted Stark Bros. They bought wood from him and propagated it and started purveying an extra early Fuji. An important thing to note is that reportedly Stark Bros never sent anyone out to Oregon to look at that fruit on the tree. They had so many lawsuits they took bankruptcy.
Starkspur Montmorency. I am sure this is a fine tree, but do you know how many mutants these trees produce? It isn't that hard to find spur varieties and redder and bigger and blah, blah, blah. the most famous one I can think of is Granspur Granny Smith. It was going to be a hot variety, until we found out it didn't produce. Do you think the new strains of Fuji eat better than the old standard Fuji? No, of course not, but the old standard Fuji wasn't patented. And it wasn't red, which is what almost all Americans want. Red Fuji, Red Gala, Red Jonagold and now, heaven help us, a Red Granny Smith.
rant mode: off

Go Geraldo! Hey, you should try some of my Axel's exclusive Granny Smiths, can you believe they are yellow and sweet? :)

It's well known that Americans buy with their eyes, not their taste buds. That's why the fruit at the grocery store is so bland. It doesn't matter that all the fruit taste like cardboard, people still buy it because it looks good! This is very sad indeed, but understandable.

be careful with Dave Wilson trees, they are sometimes mislabeled. I have two such trees. But most of their trees are top quality, even the mislabeled ones.

I also recommend "Trees of Antiquity". They have the highest quality trees of any nursery that I know of, and they ship fast.