As a houndsman, I do have dogs which run, sometimes places they shouldnt be. I bear the responsibility of that action. Some breeds are disposed to be more agressive than others, some individuals of any breed may be bad. The problems dont really lie with the dog as they are dogs, its the humans whose care they are in who must be held accountable. Untended dogs and cats are a huge problem , everywhere, not just in rural areas. It just seems that responsibility is being avoided more and more, I guess that just comes with leadership from the very top on down?
Any how, I have told all of the neighbors they have my permission to shoot any of my dogs which are not under my control if in fact they are doing damage to them.That would include scaring them. I will not hesitate to do the same if any animal is botheriung my property. I will not deal with lazy, stupid, irresponsible people and their dogs nor cats in a passive manner. I have in the past lost valuable stock to someones pets, my theory is that a good offense makes the best defense. You just cant talk common sense to most seemingly decent dog and cat owners.
I have warned 1 neighbor that his dog is chasing and killing wild turkeys in the area, not on my property; his response is "it cant be my dog, he wouldnt do that". Well, hes a gonner very soon.
this is no small issue to those with children and stock.

Fancifowl, I guess that was my main concern, for children. A friend of mine next door has little ones and she's had to scoop them up more than a time or two. I have cats, the oldest being close to 12 yrs old and his main excitement is to sit with me while I garden. If he became a dog snack, I would be highly upset but it certainly wouldn't compare to the maiming or worse of a child. BTW, I do understand that cats can be a problem too.
I think a good pet owner takes responsibility (as you have) for what their pets do. Dogs are dogs and cats are cats. As much as we love and care for them, they are animals and will do as their instincts and whims tell them. The pet owners who say "my dog would never bite someone" and similar statements are the same people who believe their child could never be a bully or drink or do drugs, IMO.
My dog comes out with us if we are sitting on the porch or washing a vehicle, the picture of obedience. If we left him out there unsupervised, however, he would go off in search of a deer carcass or whatever. Because he's a dog. I would never have an animal that posed a risk to my family or anyone elses. If someone told me that my dog threatened them in any way, he would be gone. Lori

Please, please, please don't make this into a "pitbull" issue. As an owner of a pitbull (that was dumped at our farm), I can't say enough good about the breed, but as with any breed, if you have stupid owners, you have stupid dogs.
As a general rule, pitbulls TEND to be dog aggressive, but not people aggressive (I could go into their history and bore you all, but I'll only go into that if someone resquests it). Infact, according to the AKC, the "pitbull" is the LEAST likely dog to bite a human... the cocker spaniel being #1.
Anyhow, I urge you to not give the breed a poor name because it has idiotic owners (or did). Your only hope is that it's new owners are more responsible than the last. It sounds as if the dog is not socialized and needs a bit more attention (as they tend to be people dogs and can't get enough human attention).
Again, this is a case of idiotic owners, not an idiotic breed.

I know I'm going to be dealing w/ this when I move to our rural acreage in SC. Half the properties we looked at we were 'greeted' by big, barking dogs (who didn't live there). I've always been a dog lover, and have always had dogs, but I was mauled as a child (springer spaniel), so I have a greater than normal fear of strange dogs. Do any of you know a reliable and humane way to protect yourself from an aggressive dog? I'll be working the perimeter of 7 acres, fencing and clearing, etc. I'll carry a firearm if I have to, but only as a last resort. What about pepper spray? Stun gun?

Before moving to our little retirement place, we lived in Houston. Pit Bulls were constantly in the news here for attacking and sometimes killing pets and children. I still do not blame the dogs. There is a cultural thing going on there were big bad dogs are used for fighting. They also are used by their owners to make them feel more macho. Dog fighting as well as cock fighting go way back in this area. Until people realize how cruel and senseless this is it will probably continue. In the suburbs of Houston family pets have been taken to "train" the fighting dogs causing a lot of misery for their families. i have a 120 lb mastiff mix I picked up off the street when he was about 6 months old. He apparently didn't have the mind set for fighting and was either dumped or ran away. His face was torn, a toe severed inside but still attached. He has turned out to be the sweetest big family dog you could want. Watches over the grandbabies and even my chickens..
It is almost always the treatment a dog receives that determines how they turn out.. Kit

We accidently found a way to humainly keep the dogs and fox's out of our back field where they would run and chase our goats and pony's. It's called an electric fence. My husband installed 4 rows of wires ranging from top of fence to bottom of fence. It works quite well. No animal bigger than a cat ect(and that cat has to be crawling on it's belly)...can get thru the fence with out hitting a wire. We watched the dogs one day try to get thru the fence it took only once for them to hit the wire and they took off like they were being chased by the devil himself. We have not seen them again. Everyone inside and outside of the fence stay a healthy distance away from it. Having hit the wire myself once(and only once) I can see why. I am very carefull where I place body and my kids have a healthy respect for it too.....

I had a neighbor who carried a cattle prod with her on her walks. Its basically an electrified stick that runs on batteries. It would be very portable. You can find these at cattle/farm supply stores and catalogs.

A pit bull, running free, accompanied its owner's children down our street on the way to a grocery store. It ran up on our porch, killed our 15-year-old cat, and played catch with the body all the way back out to the street. Luckily my dog was in his pen as he's no match for these unpredictable monsters. The children ran off but police officers located the family and their dog. They say the dog was subsequently put down.

While walking my dog on our 5 acres recently a free running pit bull started to challenge my dog and was narrowly stopped by his owner. Pit bull dogs may bond well with adoring owners but follow the headlines and you'll soon notice which breed is causing the trouble. Other breeds may bite more frequently but they don't have lethal potential of the pit bull.

I believe Springfield, Mo., is requiring registration of these animals. Wish my town would.

A lot of the trouble with todays so-called pit bull is in the breeding and also in the training, or lack thereof for both. My understanding is that pit bulls were originally bred to be VERY non-aggressive to people - after all, there were people in the fighting pit with the fighting dogs who didn't want to get hurt!! So any that attacked people weren't bred from, and were probably put down on the spot. They were bred to be relatively dog aggressive, as a non-aggressive dog wouldn't fight. If a dog had fought, it was generally pretty much on the attack after then, but I have been told that a modern pit bull, WHO HAS HAD BASIC OBEDIENCE TRAINING, should not be aggresssive to other dogs. That said, they should probably be walked on a leash, kept in a fenced yard and left loose with strange dogs only under close supervision - how many times have you seen two other-breed, ordinarily friendly dogs running loose get into it? Pit bulls do have a fairly strong prey drive, and unfamiliar small animals aren't really safe with them.

The problem with the 'pit bull' of today arose when it became fashionable to have big tough dogs guarding drug stashes, dealers, etc. Because of the "tough" reputation of pit bulls, they started using them. Since pits aren't/weren't people aggressive, they started mixing in other breeds, not choosing for a "good temperament" (well, the temperament they wanted wasn't what most people meant by that) and encouraging people aggression in the ones they did breed. Because the pit bull "look" is fairly strong genetically, the look came through, and a lot of these mutts, which are NOT a pure, carefully bred breed, are out there in the world, giving a generally good breed a very bad name. The other problem comes from modern owners (well, it's been a problem all along, in cities as well as in the country) who don't take the time and energy to train their dogs, and to keep the training up. Tieing a dog, whether with a rope or chain, isn't training, and can encourage aggression.

When my fox hound rescue dies, which won't be for a number of years, I will get another dog, although probably not a pit bull, as I want a dog more oriented toward property protection. But I have known a number of pit bulls who were well bred, really sweet, well socialized, good with other dogs while under supervision for the initial meetings, and just generally good, well-trained dogs, with responsible owners! The last is the most important in my opinion. It's too bad that the idiots out there in the world are ruining the owning of good breed of dog. Media ignorance and hysteria doesn't help.

Reputation or not, a pit bull will really raise your homeowner's insurance premiums!

For the record, I personally own a pitbull. My insurance premiums are no higher than those of someone who owns a labrador retriever.
Now, as for the media, take a look into history, and it's just this breeds "turn" to look bad. At one point it was the German Shepherd, then the Doberman, then the Akita, then the boxe,r then the Rottweiler, now the Pitbull. Media puts a spin on everything. 75% (if not more) of the so called "pitbulls" that the media reports on, or not pitbulls at all, but rather mastiff crosses bred for personal protections (Cane Corsos, Dogue de Bordeaux, etc). Pitbulls were never bred for personal protection, but rather for sport. AS someone else stated, they needed to be non aggressive towards people. My pitbull has never been dog aggressive and I didn't get her until she was 3 years old and dumped on our farm, so I have no idea what kind of socialization she had before I got her.
You can not put a label on a dog breed, especially a breed as diverse as the so called "pitbull" (which actually is 3 or 4 separate breeds... STaffordshire terriers, etc). IN England, the big bad pitbull is called the "Nanny Dog" because they are so good w/ children. The breed as a whole has a very high tolerance for pain so they are no likely to bite out of pain as nothing really hurts them. Currently as I write this my 3 year old to tormenting my vicious pitbull, Lucy. He can do anything to her and she gives him no response. Granted, I don't let him terrorize her as she is a dog and they are unpredictable.
Please refer to the orignal post and realize that the issue at hand here is free running dogs... not the big bad pitbull terrier.
And in the meantime, please do some research on the breed. A little bit of education will do everyone some good in this subject.

Thanks for the ideas, josette and hoghaven. I will eventually fence the perimeter, but we're talking a half mile of fence, so it may be a while. Plus, I need protection while I'm doing the fencing. A cattle prod is what I meant by a stun gun. I would think it would stop a dog. I've read that pepper spray usually works, but on rare occasions it will make a violent dog even madder. Just for the record, in my family, I was bit by a Springer Spaniel, my sister by a Golden Retriever, and my son by a Bearded Collie!

Loose dogs are a problem nearly everywhere. Abandoned dogs are certainly a problem where people drop them off, to fend for themselves. Then they starve and become HUGE problems.

In our area coyotes prey on dogs. So I haven't seen a pack of drop offs. Free running pets are a definate problem.

And have been watching the Dog Whisperer, unbelievable how many people don't understand that a dog needs to be treated like a dog in order to behave in a socially acceptable manner towards humans.

Insurance companies in our area routinely cancel if the family owns a pit bull, rotwiler, German Shepard or Doberman. I have always wanted another dobe. Can't get another one without losing our homeowners.

I've been bitten by cocker spaniels and attacked by a boxer. My horse ran the boxer off, but I've never liked any big dog since then.

As an aside, I had to get a different vet, mine is terrifed of Jack Russel Terriers. There seems to be a corrialtion (sp) between the popularity of a breed and the negetive press it gets. In the 20's it was Aerdales, the 40's Irish setters, the collies of the 50's and the german shepards of the 60's.

Maybe it's not the dogs (as has been metioned) it's the owners fault? or the breeders trying to make a buck. I certainly hope that my insurance co never cancells my homeowners because I have a Jack Russel. That would really be a shame.

pardon my lousy spelling.
kitty

For the very reason stated above, I will NEVER own a dog that is not spayed or neutered. But then again I'd never spend $2000 on a puppy, either.
If all starts w/ owners. Owners need to be responsible and #1, spay and neuter and #2, not let their animals run free.
If you insurance ever threatens to cancel you due to a certain breed, you quickly have a "mixed" breed, rather than a purebred. It's as simple as that.

There are also lots of dogs that run loose around here. We never let our dogs run loose, but a few times they have gotten out, and if we didn't know about it our neighbor usually calls them back in the fence for us. The dogs like him.

There is a family acroos the street from us who let their shepherd dog run loose half the time, but they keep him tied up at times too. He comes over to our house evry time he gets off the leash and stares at our ducks. It really aggravates me because I'm afraid the ducks might fly over the fence (which they do sometimes, but we always see them and get them back in.) I'm afraid the dog might kill one of them. He watches them, and watches Reese, my goat like he would like to get them!

Reese got out of the fence yesterday while we were unloading groceries out of the car, and the dog came running up. It's still a puppy,6-7 months but I'm still afraid he might try to hurt my animals. His family do try to keep him tied up, I guess they have to let him loose evry now and then, but when they do they have no fence, and he always comes over here :(.....

This is an interesting post. I had heard about insurance companies that cancelled because of certain breeds, but don't know of any cases personally. I also heard that you can claim some breed (like Sheppards) as a "security system" and it actually gives you a break on rates. Not sure if this is true, but I do know that our Sheppard is a great security system! Our rural neighbourhood has had some problems last couple of years with break-ins, but not our place. She's loud and she's intimidating and I wouldn't advise anyone to cross her. That said, she's a wonderful family pet, has never bitten anyone, loves all kids under the age of 20, and is very protective of her own (er, mine rather). I've learned a lot about having a healthy respect for others' property and dogs in general through the whole thing. I would have another Sheppard in a minute! Funny, because I used to be really scared of them. Guess I still am, but I just see it in a different way now.

I think it boils down to personal experience. Miss Kitty, I have to say I'm a little scared of Jack Russels! I've been bitten by one. In fact, the four times in my life I've been bitten, three of them were little dogs (JR, Chiuahua (sp?), and Dachshund) - go figure! How are the JR's with other animals? I confess, I don't know much about the breed.

gardengal, we had a black lab once that thought "home" was a ten mile radius. It was a real problem and we didn't keep the dog. He actually came to us as a "dog-sitting charge" but they never came back to get him. It was sad to let him go, but at a year and a half old, there was no changing him and I couldn't bear to keep him tied. He went to a good home, but for months I got calls to say "your dog is here"! yikes.

Roaming dogs ARE a big problem. It's really maddening for folks who try to keep their dogs under control and for those who have other animals to worry about. Genny,you are wise to be wary of your neighbour's dog. Mine has never hurt any of our animals (she's actually afraid of the cows!),but I still wouldn't let her sleep with the chickens! Dogs will learn what is and isn't fair game, but it takes time. I hope your neighbour's dog will learn that. Sometimes making a friend of the dog is a good approach, though that may encourage it to visit more often which you probably don't want. My sheppard was VERY interested in new animals we brought home. It took a couple of weeks for her to stop circling the fences (which is a bit worrying in itself), but we kept telling here "no" and made her limits clear. After a couple of weeks, the new additions became just another part of her "pack" and she basically ignored them. Overall, she's not a bad "farm dog", although she hasn't got a clue about herding! LOL

I agree this isn't just about the breed and didn't intend for it to be. It just happened that it was a pitt bull in my situation. It's also the sheer size/musculature of the bigger dogs that puts them at the top for the damage they can do and therefore makes them more physically "scary." We all know a small dog can be very aggressive and easily maim a child or small pet.
With any creature, nature/nurture plays a part in how it will turn out. You can have the most loving pitt bull that wouldn't hurt a flea or the nastiest, mean lab. Around here, the going trend is to have a pitt bull or boxer with a designer leash and strut around the neighborhood. Usually a single man who encourages bad behavior and aggression in the dog. The meaner, the better. I don't believe that is the case with the dog I originally posted about but their lack of attention and care certainly put him in situations where he got himself into trouble. Fear in a dog is just as bad as outright aggression, their reaction is the same in most cases.
Erinluchsinger, I certainly didn't want this to be a thrashing for pitt bulls. You are absolutely right about idiot owners. Lori

I have had dogs of various breeds over the years, including pit bulls. Ours was never aggressive toward people or other animals that were part of its pack. However, we were very careful to monitor the doors of the house in case a stray dog came through the neighborhood and crossed the yard. We lived in a subdivision at that time. It was our responsiblity to monitor our dog. Dogs do what dogs do unless you teach them differently.

I also had a dog that I was given as a puppy that turned out to be more than a little unstable and took to terrorizing the neighbors when they came to visit. There was not a question in my mind what the right thing to do was in that circumstance. Why would I give an unbalanced dog to someone else to terrorize someone else's neighbor or maybe hurt someone else's kids? I think the answer is that an aggressive dog should be euthanized. The dog you described, Gardengal, might simply be poorly socialized, but I'm not sure I would want to take a chance on it regardless of breed. If you can keep it closely confined while you work on training it might be fine, but I'd be really careful. Aggression in dogs (or any other animal) is not and should not be a breed issue. It is an issue of each individual dog.

I think most of us here agree that the real issue is with so-called owners who are not being responsible, or with abandoned dogs who have no owner. While some dog breeds can be said to have a tendency for a certain trait, and can be selected for, or chosen as having that trait, how many of us know Border Collies who won't herd, or retrievers who don't have any interest in retrieving. When a breed becomes popular, breeders can be seduced by the prospect of money, and breed anything to anything, without due care. Irresponsible breeding can produce some really messed up individuals - I've personally known 3 Dobies who had a major potential to be fear-biters, and trusted them not at all. I have also know a lot of wonderful, trustworthy Dobermans. I think half the problems with most of the 'bad' dogs comes from irresponsible breeding, whether puppy-mill style or just a back-yard breeder who doesn't really know what he/she is doing, and the rest comes from not training or from improper training. Dogs usually want to please, and will do their best to fulfill our expectations. But loose-running dogs, without a legitimate 'job', will either find a job for themselves, or will be defensive about what they think is "their' territory, whether or not it actually is within their owners' legal property boundaries.

If we (right-thinking people that we are) could reform the world to our wishes.... , but then, it would be a sorry world if everyone could do that.

Wandering dog+free range flock=total disaster.

We have a neighbors husky that insists on chasing our cats and roosters that wander the barnyard. After our complaints fell on deaf ears, we began treating the dog as we would an oboxious raccoon. It may sound a bit extreme, but this worked, and of course we told the dogs owners what we would be doing if he came onto our property. Anyway, a bebe gun gets the message through pretty well(pumped only enough times to sting, not penatrate skin..pump two or three times depending on distance). If you live in the city, I know they dont like you to shoot people's dogs (lol) but we had a neighbor when we lived in suburbia with 7 pitbulls who liked to jump the fence, and they had privacy fences put up all around them, and one somehow dug under ours.....bebe gun time.....never heard from them again. Now I'm not suggesting that but just saying it works.

My neighbors have a black lab that they thought should run loose. I thought differently, my dogs are not allowed to run loose. After asking them to keep their dog contained, til I was blue in the face, I called the dog warden. Boy did that piss off the husband.

But he MAINLY kept the dog contained until about an month later. He let the dog loose when they were all in the yard, but of course paid no attention to it. It was summer, hot evening, all of us neighbors were home ... we all heard the squeal of tires and a THUMP, and a dog crying. Everyone went running to see what happened.

He took one look at me and said "What the H**L are you doing here, you don't care about this dog." I said of course I care, because THIS IS WHAT happens when you let a dog run loose. (He really was a nice dog, just lonely).

That was the 4th time the dog had been hit by a car and survived it again.

Now the dog is tied up all the time, safer, but still a lonely dog.

Had a Rotti come visit one summer ... came through 50 acres to visit my house. Kept calling the owner, the last time it came it got aggressive with my male dog. I told the owner I'd better not see it again, cuz if I did, he wouldn't. Never saw that dog again.

People are IGNORANT!

What gets me is that it isn't tough to contain a dog. I swear by invisible fence (although a lot of people won't agree w/ me on that one). Granted it doesn't stop OTHER dogs from entering your yard, it does keep YOUR dog IN. I've trained 3 dogs to the system. 1 laid back dog that loved to wander (adopted b/c she was a stray that kept taking off), 1 pitbull and a very hardheaded wirehaired fox terrier that is squirrel crazy. With 2 short weeks of daily training (10 minutes a day), ANY dog can be taught to respect their boundary and not leave. I don't even have to put the collar on any of those dogs today because after a few years on the system they don't even test it. The neighbors "barn" dogs come over every once in a while and tease our little pitbull (who isn't dog aggresive in the least), but even w/o a collar on she won't leave the yard.
People get lazy w/ dogs. They just expect them to stick around w/o any training, or in some cases, attention. Drives me nuts.
They'll dump piles of money into them at the vet after they're hit by a car, but won't invest in a kennel or fence system. Ignorant.

Anytime a dog is loose is cause for concern. they might never show any agression but all it takes is for them to once feel threatened and they strike to protect themselves. I think also is not just a large dog problem for I've seen more little dogs being agressive than large. My niece has a large goober type of dog who when he snuck out would hightail it on down the road looking for fun.

A couple of years ago he was returned riding in the the front seat of a patrol car. He was so excited to have found a friend. Did I say goober dog. LOL I've been around all types of dogs all my life and I try not to take any chances, but I have to say I have qualms when I see any large dog loping down the street.

I agree that while your situation seems to have improved, where he has gone might not be so lucky....