sounds like a challenge but doable. I would start quickly by having the kids come out and take out all the weeds and dig up the grass-shake it off until you are left with just dirt OR get someone to build them a raised bed in which case you leave the grass and fill it in with Mel's mix (see square foot gardening forum). The first would cost less the second would be easiest.

I would plant really fast growing veggies like radishes, peas, beans, lettuce, marigold, and buy plants (cukes, tomatos. In fact they could start these seeds inside right now.

Veggies are fairly easy to grow. Good luck!

Hi - I live in Princeton about 2 hours west on I-80.

I have a brand new garden plot that we carved out of our lawn.

I started working my soil and growing my seeds inside in MARCH and planted some things April 25 and the rest May 1.

At this point, I have ripe radishes, lettuce, spinach and some immature turnips.

Maybe they are planning a fall garden with broccoli and zucchini? But I don't think they are going to get tomatoes or peppers starting this late.

Newgarden is right that the weeds have to go immediately, good discipline for beginning gardeners. This plan sounds so vague that it would be difficult to advise. Is this a year-round school or some such? If not, I don't see how anything could be successful at this date.

Disagree with peas, radishes and lettuce - will soon be too hot for them and will be disappointing.

Beans - good. Cukes good too if there is plenty of ground or choose a restricted-vine type and can be direct seeded. Beets and carrots can be direct seeded. Note: carrots need care that the ground does not get crusty before they germinate

Disagree that it is too late for tomatoes and peppers. These, of course, would have to be as transplants, as would eggplants. That is only assuming the ground is ready immediately in this season. If they are not sold on veggies, then some annual flower transplants and/or some direct -seeded zinnias and cosmos might be the way to go for a first try. Once the plot is established then future gardens could take a more traditional planting schedule.

I would have a parent use a weed eater and mow all the grass and weeds to ground level so when you rake it all away you will have bare ground, then give those kids some shovels and let them dig away. As far as what to plant I am not sure about that zone but maybe pumpkins?

"But I don't think they are going to get tomatoes or peppers starting this late."

I agree with paveggie. If they're transplants, it should be fine.

shadey,

Just call the school up to find out who is in charge of the program and ask. That's what they're there for and they should welcome parent interest and questions.

There are several methods by which to remove the weeds. Turning the soil over by spade. Solarizing the soil. Covering with cardboard to weaken the weeds for a couple of weeks and then pulling them up. I know lots of people like to till but to me that just causes more problems in the long run if there are existing weeds in the soil because it brings up seeds that were deep to the surface where they'll be triggered to sprout due to soil temp and if it's a weed that spreads by rhizomes, cutting them up into separate pieces and leaving them in the ground only means they'll come back.

Here is a link that might be useful: Your weeding technique/tips?

I second what betty said. If your weeds are out of control, I'd mow down the weeds instead of tilling right away. Add grass clippings if you've got them; you want 1-2 inches of green mulch over the whole garden. If it's not damp out (it sure is here), give them a little water to start the decomposition process. Then just let the "mulch" sit in the sun for a week. If there's enough green mulch, the decomposition process will bake everything that tries to come up (peel back the mulch if you want to see how it's going; the mulch should be turning gooey and any seedling weeds down there should be pale yellow and sickly). You can save the weed-mulch to put around your plants to keep weeds down where you're worried about them getting out of hand (just don't put it too thick too close to your plants, or you risk hurting them). If you want to till before planting, you can just scrape it away and then put it back when you're done.

I also agree on transplants having time; I'm in Iowa City, and my tomatoes are still just blooming, but I know from past experience that they'll give me fruit for months -- all the way up to the first frost. Get some plants that already have blossoms, and they'll produce plenty for you.

If being organic is not a concern. Use round up now. In a 4-5 days till everything under, add any ammendments you may need. This should take care of the large weeds, and from now on pull any more that come up.

I would till it under and not even worry about roundup. If you have a tiller you don't need the roundup the machine will do the work. Till it in and let the weeds rot in the soil. If you are starting a new garden patch it is worth paying a guy $50-60 bucks to till it under for you, since this is for a school project you may not be into vegetable gardening for the long term anyway.

Shadey, whereabouts in suburbia is the school? I might be able to dig a miniature pumpkin or two, I have a few extra volunteers this year.

g'day shady,

we invite you and the school to visit our page there will be lots of ideas there for simple processes that will keep the kids interested.

the weeds will be no worries just knock 'em down a bit either by trampling or a weed eater and then with heaps of collected newspaper lay that down and the rest of the story is on our site.

len

Here is a link that might be useful: len's garden page

Sorry, Roundup is not organic, it is a registered herbicide and it does not "disappear" as most people think it does.

* Glyphosate is not readily metabolized by plants; it is translocated and may accumulate in meristematic regions including roots and nodules (Duke, 1988; Hernandez et al., 1999, Reddy et al., 2000).

* Glyphosate that accumulates in the roots of treated susceptible plants is eventually released into the rhizosphere (Coupland and Casely, 1979; Rodrigues et al., 1982).

References:

1. a. World Health Organization, United Nations Environment Programme, International Labour Organization (1994) Glyphosate. Environmental Health Criteria 159. Geneva, Switzerland. See also: 1
b. Folmar L C, Sanders H O and Julin A M (1979) Toxicity of the herbicide glyphosate and several of its formulations to fish and aquatic invertebrates. Arch. Environ. Contam. Toxicol. 8:269-278 1
c. Wang Y, Jaw C and Chen Y (1994) Accumulation of 2,4-D and glyphosate in fish and water hyacinth. Water Air Soil Pollut. 74:397-403

2. Springett J A and Gray R A J (1992) Effect of repeated low doses of biocides on the earthworm Aporrectodea caliginosa in laboratory culture. Soil Biol. Biochem. 24(12):1739-1744

3. Estok D, Freedman B and Boyle D (1989) Effects of the herbicides 2,4-D, glyphosate, hexazinone, and triclopyr on the growth of three species of ectomycorrhizal fungi. Bull. Environ. Contam. Toxicol. 42:835-839

4. Chakravarty P and Chatarpaul L (1990) Non-target effect of herbicides: I. Effect of glyphosate and hexazinone on soil microbial activity. Microbial population, and in-vitro growth ofectomycorrhizal fungi. Pestic. Sci. 28:233-241

5.Sidhu S S and Chakravarty P (1990) Effect of selected forestry herbicides on ectomycorrhizaldevelopment and seedling growth of lodgepole pine and white spruce under controlled and field environment. Eur J. For. Path. 20:77-94

6. Chakravarty P and Sidhu S S (1987) Effects of glyphosate, hexazinone and triclorpyr on in vitro growth of five species of ectomycorrhizal fungi. Eur. J. For. Path. 17:204-210

7. Piccolo A et al. (1994) Adsorption and desorption of glyphosate in some European soils. J. Environ. Sci. Health B29(6):1105-1115

My thinking is along the lines of Bettsy's and Karen's. Mow it low as possible. Rake away the mown weeds and dispose of them. Then till.

One summer I acquired a new garden plot at the beginning of July. I had never planted so late, but I had great success with summer squash, bush beans, turnips, eggplant (from purchased seedlings), escarole and tomatillos (from transplanted seedlings).

Jim

Nobody said roundup is organic and the problems cited are with high usage in soils with low humus and low rainfall. I've used it for years with no problems at all but could have predicted that it would bring the usual protest from the organic gardening side.
I'd use roundup on the whole area to kill perennial weeds which would otherwise return from their roots. Not necessary to wait until weeds die - wait two days or so and then cut the top growth and either dig or till the rest under.
You don't want to delay a start to this garden for much longer than a week or you'll miss the best part of the growing season. It's already a week or so late to set out transplants of tomatoes and peppers but they should do fine if they go in by June 15th. Be sure to include cherry tomatoes - always a favorite with kids. Bush beans will do fine if planted up to July 10th. Too late for radishes and lettuce since the weather will be too hot for them by the time they come up. But plenty of time for Swiss chard, beets,summer squash and even sweet corn if an early variety is chosen.

I agree with the round-up. You can use it on the whole area and plant in a few days. However, I would not bother tilling or turning the soil at all. Just mow it real low and dig out around where you want to plant as you are planting it. The rest is just going to die and decompose anyway. It may as well act as mulch and block out new weeds in the mean time. And if this is a big plot with no guarantee that anybody is going to take the reins for the long term, trying to amend the soil will not help. Better off watering with the blue stuff just to get stuff to grow this season.

Kay

I think what you really need to do....if you want to help and are willing to...is contact the horti person at the school and discuss what her/his plans are or what has already been planned and what resources are available to the kids and who is available to help....If this program has been initiated at the school level, surely someone has already made some strides toward the plans...before you go spinning your wheels in the direction of roundup or tilling or digging or whatever...go offer yourself to the person in charge and get involved in the planning...find out if there is a tiller...or if there are strong backs to help dig or even if there is a mower...it;s hared to make real plans until you have some facts in hand...

Shadey,

You've been given lots of advice here. My 2 cents, is to go with oldroser and josie23's advice. Use the Roundup, especially if there is creeping charlie or other hard to eliminate weeds.

Peppers will be fine here in the Chicago metro area planted now. Cherry tomatoes are also an excellent choice both because as Oldroser points out, kids love them, and also because they are fast growers and prolific bearers. Even if your garden is not ready for a week or two, you can pot up peppers and toms to larger containers if necessary. Chicago weather can be extreme and difficult to predict. Last fall a freak snow nailed my tomato plants in early October. The previous fall I was picking tomatoes in November. No frost and warm weather made for a long season.

Bush beans are also a good choice, generally not planted here until June 1 when the soil is well warmed. People succession plant them through the summer (I don't find that necessary, but some people do this) so you can plant them very late and still get a fine crop. Swiss chard will do fine too.

It is certainly too late for a spring crop of peas, lettuce, spinach or any of the cool season, early start veggies. However, you can plant these in late summer for a fall crop, and perhaps even do better than with a spring planting. Seeds germinate much quicker in warm soil and you won't be plagued by spinach bolting or peas being unhappy in the hot mid summer weather. I assume that this garden is meant to be a learning experience for the kids, and late summer planting can be full of interesting lessons.

Best of luck,

Petro

Nothing like starting kids off right, with a good strong dose of chemicals in the vegetable garden. Healthy stuff to come in contact with - we should all put some on our dinners.

What's wrong with kids learning to dig and pull weeds? It's good exercise and teaches a lot more about how things grow.
-O

"Nothing like starting kids off right, with a good strong dose of chemicals in the vegetable garden"

This, right here, is probably my biggest complaint about these forums. I can handle the pop-ups just fine, it's this kind of attitude that I don't like. You can be as organic as you like, but accept and understand that not everyone shares the same views as you do, and little passive-aggressive quips are annoying, and not needed.

but then she is allowed her opinion and while I am not totally organic or on a soapbox preaching orgainic, I tend to agree with her on this one...

I agree as well. This will be benificial in so many ways to those children. In a time when we do not know what is on or in our food, or with our labeling laws we don't even know where our food really comes from, just were it was packaged. Teaching gardening and the hands on experience of growing and caring over your plants, over your food, would be a gift to those children.

I am not a person who buys organic food either, and it sickened me to read all the suggestions of using roundup. I don't think organica had an attitude at all...someone needed to say it, and she said it well.

Maybe someone should ask the kids if they want to learn how to garden organically after giving them the plus and minus of it and their current situation?

I know if I was a kid that never gardened in the past and it was getting late to plant, I'd want chemicals to keeps the weeds out. Then next year, I'd want to learn organic gardening. This 1st year would be ideal for the kids to start a compost pile so they can have an organic gardening class next year .... If they want one.

With the condition of the garden plot and the time of year there seems to be two choices: grow organically or grow food. I'll vote for the use of an herbicide this year and then switch over next year. If you don't get the kids' interest this summer you'll probably lose most of them for next year. Tom

You don't have to till or even dig to have your garden. Try Lasagna gardening. Mow the weeds down low, cover them with newspaper layers and cover that with layers of peat moss, finished compost, and well-aged manure in alternating layers. You can plant vegetable transplants immediately and sow large seeds such as watermelon, zucchini and cukes. Organic, quick, easy, and effective. For more info, look up Lasagna gardening on the web or in the Soil and Compost forum.